Guest CuriousBoy Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Hey guys. I have 2 hot raw undetectable tops who want to fuck me and unload inside me. I'm neg and it'll be my first time fucking raw. What are the chances of me getting HIV if this were to happen? One of the guys has a PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bu23yostud Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 So a few things to remember here: 1) Undetectable means viral levels are low enough that virus cannot be detected by modern testing methods. Doesn't mean that it is absent. 2) Undetectable refers to your blood. Semen isn't tested when calculating a viral load. 3) Consider visiting your physician and (if you have insurance) starting pre exposure prophylaxis. Google it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CuriousBoy Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I'm starting on PReP in a month. Which if why I'm paranoid and asking you guys for advice. Maybe I shouldn't do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bttm2go Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 If you don't want to chance HIV, then wait until you are on PrEP. Why take a risk you don't want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest beezee Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 HIV virus is still found in semen of undetectable guys. Viral levels can blip and that's even if you trust them to be telling the truth. There are zero medical statistics on the transmission risk from an undetectable gay man so you're taking a gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearbandit Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) About 10% of undetectable guys have detectable virus in their semen. There have been no studies that I know of comparing levels of virus in blood and semen, but it's only logical to assume that levels in the semen undetectable guys is pretty low, otherwise we'd be seeing a lot more infections. Interesting to note that integrase inhibitors (raltegravir and dolutegravir reach the parts other antivirals don't reach. I can't speak for dolutegravir, never having taken it, but raltegravir has a low side-effect profile and is effective at lowering the viral load quickly. Since it's got a better than average penetration rate, it's not unreasonable to think that guys on raltegravir would have a lower than average viral load in their semen. Since viral load testing became routine, I had my first zero viral load (number, not euphemism: they literally couldn't find a viral particle in my blood). I've been taking it for eighteen months now and the only disadvantage it has is that it's a twice a day pill: no matter, I take it with my diabetes meds. I sure as hell know when I've missed taking them... However, in the long run, PrEP would be a good idea if it's available to you. If you're in the UK Google PROUD Study truvada for details. They've recruited 335 guys and want 500. Eight testing sites around England and Scotland (but alas none in Wales or N Ireland). Edited January 7, 2014 by bearbandit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blahwho Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Go for it. I’ve been undetectable for many years and have never once passed it on to any neg guys. The chances are as small as a condom failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottom Jim Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I have been fucked many times by undectable guys with no side effects. Let's be honest. Sex is dangerous to a degree. I would rather have a undectable guy on meds bareback me that a guy who does not know but thinks he is neg. If a guy gets tested and takes care of himself I feel he is safer than a guy who never gets tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wood Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I'm starting on PReP in a month. Which if why I'm paranoid and asking you guys for advice. Maybe I shouldn't do it Just wait for PrEP, and heres why. It sounds like you want to stay negative, good choice. Now while the risk with undetectable guys is low, its not zero, and viral load can vary, especially when other illnesses are common, like now with cold and flu season. The biggest issue I have with you doing it now is that you would probably kick yourself forever if you got infected a month before starting PrEP because you didnt want to want, and while that risk is low, its still much higher than without PrEP. Undetectable+neg guy on PrEP means almost impossible transmission, while just undetectable depending on all what happens may be 1-2% chance. Just wait, or see if you can start PrEP sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wood Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I have been fucked many times by undectable guys with no side effects. Let's be honest. Sex is dangerous to a degree. I would rather have a undectable guy on meds bareback me that a guy who does not know but thinks he is neg. If a guy gets tested and takes care of himself I feel he is safer than a guy who never gets tested. I agree with this 100% However IMO, if he is about to start PrEP, I would probably stop bottoming at all until I started it. Since I started PrEP, I have found I am actually more comfortable fucking undetectable guys than most "neg" guys simple because many of the neg guys dont get tested on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearbandit Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Since I started PrEP, I have found I am actually more comfortable fucking undetectable guys than most "neg" guys simple because many of the neg guys dont get tested on a regular basis. We know in the UK from anonymised testing (where a little blood is syphoned off into an unlabelled test tube, separated from its "partner" and then tested that there are almost 100,000 of us in the UK living with HIV, but only about 75,000 actually know that they have HIV. So somewhere on these islands are 25,000 people with HIV receiving no treatment, whose immune systems are degrading and who are becoming more and more infectious. I was lucky to get through the drugless eighties. My partner who was diagnosed late because his employers didn't have the right policies in place (he was sprayed with blood from a guy who'd hit an artery when injecting), was finally diagnosed as he was getting sick and spent four years of misery as his body crapped out on him. Quite apart from the fact that guys who don't test regularly are more likely to HIV than average, there's also the chance that they're not looking after other aspects of their sexual health. How difficult is it to give a bit of blood, piss in a pot, have a throat and an anal swab taken every three months or so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wood Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 We know in the UK from anonymised testing (where a little blood is syphoned off into an unlabelled test tube, separated from its "partner" and then tested that there are almost 100,000 of us in the UK living with HIV, but only about 75,000 actually know that they have HIV. So somewhere on these islands are 25,000 people with HIV receiving no treatment, whose immune systems are degrading and who are becoming more and more infectious. I was lucky to get through the drugless eighties. My partner who was diagnosed late because his employers didn't have the right policies in place (he was sprayed with blood from a guy who'd hit an artery when injecting), was finally diagnosed as he was getting sick and spent four years of misery as his body crapped out on him. Quite apart from the fact that guys who don't test regularly are more likely to HIV than average, there's also the chance that they're not looking after other aspects of their sexual health. How difficult is it to give a bit of blood, piss in a pot, have a throat and an anal swab taken every three months or so? Preaching to the choir! My three month check is on friday just like clockwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RAWGUYUK Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 PREP is a good option BUT, even with PREP, it wont reduce your risk of getting HIV to 0%. I know a guy on PREP who was taking his meds as advised and recently seroconverted. It happens. PREP is still in a "study" "trial" period for its effectiveness. It most likely works very well, but wont reduce your risk to 0. The hard line of the matter is, if you really really really don't want HIV, don't bareback. It's really that simple. If you can handle the small chance you may become poz, then do what you can to reduce the risk (serosort, fuck undetectable guys, take PREP or stick to topping) but none of these guarantees you will stay neg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wood Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 PREP is a good option BUT, even with PREP, it wont reduce your risk of getting HIV to 0%. I know a guy on PREP who was taking his meds as advised and recently seroconverted. It happens. PREP is still in a "study" "trial" period for its effectiveness. It most likely works very well, but wont reduce your risk to 0. The hard line of the matter is, if you really really really don't want HIV, don't bareback. It's really that simple. If you can handle the small chance you may become poz, then do what you can to reduce the risk (serosort, fuck undetectable guys, take PREP or stick to topping) but none of these guarantees you will stay neg. I REALLY wonder what his compliance was and what else he was doing. PrEP when taken correctly is more effective than condoms on a statistical basis. Since it says you are in the UK he should be studied if he seroconverted, and if he was taking it correctly an converted he would be one of the first in any of the trials. In all the prior trials the people that converted were the ones who didnt take it daily as described. ANd really if you REALLY dont want HIV, even condoms dont lower your risk to 0. The only true way to stay neg is to not have sex, or just have sex with one know neg person, who NEVER sleeps around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearbandit Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 The hard line of the matter is, if you really really really don't want HIV, don't bareback. It's really that simple. The hard line is if you don't want to risk getting HIV, the only sure way is never to have sex with anyone. PrEP has the occasional failure, condoms fail somewhat more often and monogamous negative partners may well cheat on you. If you really really don't want HIV, make your wanking hand your lover. Of course if you're that nervy about risk, you'll need someone to plug electrical devices into the wall for you, and don't ever cross a road... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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