Help Me Conceptualize A Better Infraction System

[rawTOP]

One of the things people really dislike about this site is the infraction system. The most vocal critics seem to be spoiled brats who think they can do what they want, when and where they want. Honestly, I don't care about meeting the needs of spoiled brats. But I do recognize that the infraction system is imperfect. While we're running this forum software, we're stuck with what we've got. But as I build new software that can change. So give me your feedback on how you think a good infraction system should work.

For starters it has to start with a design that minimizes unintentional mistakes. Right now a lot of infractions are given for posting in the wrong area. That's because people don't always think about where they are in the structure of the site before posting. So I'm envisioning a site with less structure. It will actually be tag based. So threads can show up in multiple places. So a thread like the one about LA banning the production of bareback porn could show up in LGBT Politics, and in the LA section, and in the bareback porn section. I'd have you pick the general theme that most matches the thread (bareback, cocksucking, fetish, etc.) and then everything else will be determined by tagging.

There will also be reminders that in certain types of threads certain other types of discussion aren't allowed since HIV fetish, chem sex, and other sensitive topics will still only be allowed in certain areas. The person who starts the thread will determine what of the restricted topics are allowed and the thread will be placed accordingly.

So first question for you guys – what are the other things I should think about that can reduce the number of inadvertent rule violations? Is there something you've gotten an infraction for that, if the site worked a different way, you might have avoided the infraction?

Next, I'm envisioning an infraction system that's based on credits and debits. So when you do something good for the site, you get credit. When you violate the rules you get a debit. Bans will be based on your balance (credits - debits). So if you've done a lot of good for the site, you can make some mistakes and all it will do is deduct from your credits. Whereas if someone who's new to the site does the same thing they might be banned.

If you're wondering, credits will be given for starting popular threads. Or making comments that get a lot of upvotes. Or reporting a problem that gets validated by a moderator. There will also be ways to earn points on my other sites – so on the porn sites stuff like cropping an image you like, or choosing a filter that makes the image look better would get you credits. On the hookup sites, uploading images that get a lot of likes and making them public will earn you points. Also, hooking up with a "trusted" member or attending certain sex parties will get you points.

Some people will accumulate a lot of credits. So in those cases surplus credits will turn into things that have actual value. So big discounts (possibly free) branded gear (e.g. a t-shirt with #BBBH on it), or discounted (or free) entrance into certain sex parties. As I build out hookup site type features, the credits can be used to "advertise" yourself on the hookup site. All of those things are things that people will also be able to pay for (buy a t-shirt, pay an entrance fee for a sex party, or pay for better visibility on the hookup site). I can also envision letting users with surplus credits transfer them to friends so their friends don't have to go through the process of proving themselves like other new members.

So there will still be an infraction system, but trusted senior members won't ever really feel the effects of it (other then a slap on a wrist and a reduction in credits). And they'll be able to give their friends the same experience by granting them some of their surplus credits. Basically saying "I trust this person, and the site should as well".

The only problem I'm seeing here is that there may be so many ways to earn points that people rack up a crazy number of points. So I may limit the number of points a person can earn in a day. And I'm also thinking that once a credit is marked "surplus" it can't be used to pay a debit for an infraction. That means that a long-time user with lots of credits can't suddenly cause total chaos on the site and get away with it. And if a person has surplus credits and gets a large number of debits, then it will draw down a percentage of their surplus credits as well. (Small infractions won't draw down surplus credits, just major ones).

So if you would… Think through your experiences with the current infraction system and tell me whether what I've laid out above resolves the problems of the current system.

[Guest SecretCumWhore]

I think the credit - debits thing is an awesome idea.  Those investing time in other peoples posts, providing content, and mostly abiding by rules is a good user base to have.  Those that are just showing up on the site and having flags all over the place and might not care about the rules would potentially get banned without a credit base and could also help moderator / site owners from getting in trouble in letting that content happen on the site.  (No one wants this site to go away, since it’s a relatively place to discuss real world issues, fantasy erotica, and discuss harder topics in locked down parts of the site).  

Edited January 28, 2020 by SecretCumWhore

[PG1961Canada]

I like it.

Being a curious kinda guy, I spent some time reading how the current system works... (I think). Grin.  

Having said that, I read the site rules about 'what goes where' and I've been lucky so far that my posts appear to be going to the correct places.  That's one of the reasons I created my own blog here - to write down 'my life experiences' (for when I am old and in the nursing home).

I'm also an IT guy, so I know that when you purchase these 'packages', the purchaser is stuck with however the package creator envisioned 'their' system working.  As site owner here, you obviously have a much higher understand of the limitations of the current package (as you've said in the past - it's conversational board).  Reading your explanation above, it shows that you've looked at current pros/cons and are suggesting new features that will simplify the system and clearly explain credits/debits.  Any one of us with a bank account understands credits/debits. Grin

Attaching points is a great incentive for people to post new material, be it questions from newbies to raw sex, questions about risks, HIV, STI's, PrEP.  Personally, it has helped me understand the whole 'bareback culture' (even though I've been fucking raw for 15 years).  I have a better understanding of terminology thanks to this site.  I have seen some polite disagreements - often well presented by both sides.  We have some epic writers that cover a wide spectrum of materials.  That is very cool - in my opinion.  

The site gives people a place to come and feel safe (and cum and feel good!!).  There will always be people who are happy to 'read' and rarely communicate.  There will always be shit disturbers.  There will always be prolific writers.

And if people see they can get a 'reward' for participation, I believe it will make contributions increase.  For a lot of folks - it's fun to get a reward.

The result is an even better site for all of us to share.

BIG supporter of tags.  As you point out - it allows one topic to appear in multiple areas.  By providing a 'drop down list' for the first post on a topic/story - then allowing multiple tags, it might make it easier for people to understand where to post - thereby reducing their infractions.

It's great to see an opportunity to throw in our three cents!! Thanks man.

Cheers

PG

[Pozlover1]

This site is the last bastion of nearly pure freedom on the internet. So far there is no one approved agenda we have to goose step in line with. As long as that continues we should be willing to put up with rules designed to keep it from being shut down. Of course the future is enshrouded in mystery, and a Surveillance State with a Social Score could result in admitted stealthers losing access to the sunshine at some point. 

[tighthole64]

I like your thoughts!  Ive had WAY too many infractions by simply being sloppy on where I post.  Im NOT always sure where I post inappropriate things but I THINK that I see other posts that haven't been removed and think my comment is thus appropriate. I do like the credit system.  

[sluttony]

4 hours ago, rawTOP said:

One of the things people really dislike about this site is the infraction system. The most vocal critics seem to be spoiled brats who think they can do what they want, when and where they want. Honestly, I don't care about meeting the needs of spoiled brats. But I do recognize that the infraction system is imperfect. While we're running this forum software, we're stuck with what we've got. But as I build new software that can change. So give me your feedback on how you think a good infraction system should work.

For starters it has to start with a design that minimizes unintentional mistakes. Right now a lot of infractions are given for posting in the wrong area. That's because people don't always think about where they are in the structure of the site before posting. So I'm envisioning a site with less structure. It will actually be tag based. So threads can show up in multiple places. So a thread like the one about LA banning the production of bareback porn could show up in LGBT Politics, and in the LA section, and in the bareback porn section. I'd have you pick the general theme that most matches the thread (bareback, cocksucking, fetish, etc.) and then everything else will be determined by tagging.

There will also be reminders that in certain types of threads certain other types of discussion aren't allowed since HIV fetish, chem sex, and other sensitive topics will still only be allowed in certain areas. The person who starts the thread will determine what of the restricted topics are allowed and the thread will be placed accordingly.

So first question for you guys – what are the other things I should think about that can reduce the number of inadvertent rule violations? Is there something you've gotten an infraction for that, if the site worked a different way, you might have avoided the infraction?

Next, I'm envisioning an infraction system that's based on credits and debits. So when you do something good for the site, you get credit. When you violate the rules you get a debit. Bans will be based on your balance (credits - debits). So if you've done a lot of good for the site, you can make some mistakes and all it will do is deduct from your credits. Whereas if someone who's new to the site does the same thing they might be banned.

If you're wondering, credits will be given for starting popular threads. Or making comments that get a lot of upvotes. Or reporting a problem that gets validated by a moderator. There will also be ways to earn points on my other sites – so on the porn sites stuff like cropping an image you like, or choosing a filter that makes the image look better would get you credits. On the hookup sites, uploading images that get a lot of likes and making them public will earn you points. Also, hooking up with a "trusted" member or attending certain sex parties will get you points.

Some people will accumulate a lot of credits. So in those cases surplus credits will turn into things that have actual value. So big discounts (possibly free) branded gear (e.g. a t-shirt with #BBBH on it), or discounted (or free) entrance into certain sex parties. As I build out hookup site type features, the credits can be used to "advertise" yourself on the hookup site. All of those things are things that people will also be able to pay for (buy a t-shirt, pay an entrance fee for a sex party, or pay for better visibility on the hookup site). I can also envision letting users with surplus credits transfer them to friends so their friends don't have to go through the process of proving themselves like other new members.

So there will still be an infraction system, but trusted senior members won't ever really feel the effects of it (other then a slap on a wrist and a reduction in credits). And they'll be able to give their friends the same experience by granting them some of their surplus credits. Basically saying "I trust this person, and the site should as well".

The only problem I'm seeing here is that there may be so many ways to earn points that people rack up a crazy number of points. So I may limit the number of points a person can earn in a day. And I'm also thinking that once a credit is marked "surplus" it can't be used to pay a debit for an infraction. That means that a long-time user with lots of credits can't suddenly cause total chaos on the site and get away with it. And if a person has surplus credits and gets a large number of debits, then it will draw down a percentage of their surplus credits as well. (Small infractions won't draw down surplus credits, just major ones).

So if you would… Think through your experiences with the current infraction system and tell me whether what I've laid out above resolves the problems of the current system.

Hi RT... to sort of continue our PMs for me, it seems that it can feel a bit heavy handed, as you said.

I posted in the wrong area of the site and accept fully that was a mistake (as you said, I just didn't think and there was no malice). 

The points - fair enough but I also received a 3 day ban and a 7 or 10 (I forget) block on posting which, as I say, seemed a bit excessive. But I think it felt worse because I couldn't contact a moderator for that entire time, either, and that is the bit that stung.

So if there was a way to implement an escalator system (again for a first offense it seemed OTT) rather than an instant ban hammer being dropped and if it was at least made possible to communicate with admins (also a double edged blade, I know, because there will be idiots that use it to hurl abuse) and some system in place to allow an apology etc.  It would feel less... extreme.

 

[alwaysready]

I would wish for at least one warning b4 one is given points--unless what they have written is beyond the pale.

[rawTOP]

35 minutes ago, sluttony said:

So if there was a way to implement an escalator system (again for a first offense it seemed OTT) rather than an instant ban hammer being dropped and if it was at least made possible to communicate with admins (also a double edged blade, I know, because there will be idiots that use it to hurl abuse) and some system in place to allow an apology etc.  It would feel less... extreme.

7 minutes ago, alwaysready said:

I would wish for at least one warning b4 one is given points--unless what they have written is beyond the pale.

Both questions hit on a common theme, so I'll answer both at the same time. New users will still be on a very short leash and it won't take much for them to get banned (same as it is now). The accommodation for them is to have it designed in a way to inadvertent mistakes are less likely. That leaves intentional sloppiness which sorta deserves a ban. I'll have to rethink the points system based on the new architecture. But, similar to how it is now, there won't be a ban for doing anything that doesn't have a lot of consequence. But doing something like putting restricted content in an unrestricted area will still probably get the person banned (as it does now). But again, mistakes will hopefully be far fewer.

One thing I didn't mention is that right now there's banned and then there's restricted from posting. I'll continue that idea and refine it a bit. And I'll also make it so if a senior, trusted member contacts you, you can reply to him if you're restricted from posting. But you can't initiate a conversation. Stuff like that.

[alwaysready]

that would be my other suggestion: if it is your first, or even second banning--I guess you call it--and not for really bad stuff, then once your suspension is over, I think you should be able to post. otherwise, it is like fucking in a condom.

[sluttony]

I guess it also plays into your recent changes around user ranks and restrictions - is there any way to implement a system where the level of seniority is made up of time here as well as post count/quality? I'm thinking more along the lines of infractions where your time here can reduce the severity, say?

[smokey1121]

not sure where to post it but how do we gain more reputation

[evilcoyote]

I love the idea of a debit - credit system. I've not gotten any infractions so I can't comment on that but it sounds like the tagging idea is on point.

[drscorpio]

I would like to see fewer infractions for posting in the wrong place as well. 

I was sorry when we moved away from the decaying of points. The way it was several years ago, you could make a fairly big mistake, and if you didn't make another one for a few months your points drained away. Moderators could still see if you were a repeat offender because the infraction remained, but the points drained away. The debit-credit system seems like another approach to the same sort of thing. 

[rawTOP]

17 hours ago, sluttony said:

I guess it also plays into your recent changes around user ranks and restrictions - is there any way to implement a system where the level of seniority is made up of time here as well as post count/quality? I'm thinking more along the lines of infractions where your time here can reduce the severity, say?

The current seniority system is based both on activity and time. You can make the max number of posts each day and still not get to the next step until a certain amount of time has passed.

[rawTOP]

9 hours ago, drscorpio said:

I would like to see fewer infractions for posting in the wrong place as well. 

I was sorry when we moved away from the decaying of points. The way it was several years ago, you could make a fairly big mistake, and if you didn't make another one for a few months your points drained away. Moderators could still see if you were a repeat offender because the infraction remained, but the points drained away. The debit-credit system seems like another approach to the same sort of thing. 

Let's discuss this in the moderator forum or on What's App. We can expire points now, and we do do it in some cases.