Racism and gay community

[Guest takingdeepanal]

@Cutedelicategay and @blackrobe - Squirt has more problems than just being "non-inclusive". They'd keep more members if they allowed them to send more than 2 messages a day!

[BootmanLA]

On 8/8/2020 at 4:59 PM, Cutedelicategay said:

Squirt recently sent out a survey asking members of their opinions on how to make Squirt inclusive. Its a no brainer that sex apps and sites should totally discourage people from putting any preferences in their profiles and should do away with their search filters except the area search. When one is looking for sex they should understand or be forced to understand that they need to invest some time looking for a match. Also the block option should force the member to write a message before blocking. The reason these talks about racism are so much discussed in the current perspective is because we as a society have missed the time and opportunity to do away with such behaviors by understanding. Its time to now enforce rules for people who still hide their racial attitudes behind preferences. 

I respectfully disagree.

If I'm looking for a potential sex partner in a given geographical area, if there are no filters (since I'm already limiting to the area) then there's no advantage whatsoever to using the app over walking down the street. Worse, because at least on the street (or in a bar) I can observe potential hookups and gauge my response to them. Whether I'm looking for a guy who's tall enough to make me feel small, or small enough I could pick him up in my arms; whether he's the shy quiet type that catches my eye or a fun-loving extrovert who intrigues me because he seems enthusiastic - I can at least see those things in person that I can't see looking at thumbnail pictures. 

Eliminating filters suggests that nobody's preferences for anything - height, weight, hairiness, preferred role(s), whatever - are valid, and you're therefore obligated to give every single profile a shot hoping there may or may not be a match. If this is how Squirt wants to differentiate itself in the marketplace, I suspect it'll be a spectacular failure.

That doesn't mean I think guys who will only have sex with (for instance) guys who are +/- 3 years of their own age, at least 2" taller, dark-haired, smooth, muscular, and a versatile top shouldn't open themselves up to other possibilities. I think they'd be surprised at what they find and like. But I seriously doubt trying to impose that behavior by eliminating filters is going to work as a market strategy.

[BootmanLA]

On 8/6/2020 at 6:14 PM, Ranger Rick said:

Curious if you cringe when a white guy from a rural area is described as a redneck. 

Here's where I perceive at least some difference, Ranger Rick.

The original post asked about "thug used as synonymous with large muscular hung black male. " Synonymous has a specific meaning - that the two terms are equivalent, ie all thugs are large muscular hung black males, and vice versa. That's what a synonym is.

Not all white guys from rural areas are rednecks (and not all rednecks are from rural areas, and it's at least debatable whether all rednecks are white). I wouldn't use the term redneck for *all* rural white guys, and I'd call out someone who treated the two as synonyms, but I think the term can have some use.

I'd also point out: when the term thug is applied to black men, it's usually (in my experience) casting him as a criminal or criminal-adjacent, at least, and often to suggest that "thugs" need to be locked up away from decent people. Given this country's long, storied history of racism being used to marginalize black men, painting them as uniquely dangerous and in need of "control", I'm a lot more squeamish about the use of that term than I am about "redneck" - one which many of those to whom it's applied thinking it's a term of pride, and none of whom are subject to the kind of institutional oppression so-called "thugs" are. 

[Guest POZitiveBoyZ]

On 8/6/2020 at 11:47 AM, Cutedelicategay said:

This has been an interesting read. However the gay community has been deeply entrenched in relating themselves with fashionistas and porn stars. That's the standard we most gays set for themselves. Furthermore it is deeply divided psychologically as in peer pressure in order to belong to a group. Unlike my straight friends I take more time to dress up for a bar outing and that's why this entire feeling for "types" and "preferences". 

When people talk about sexual preferences, which by the way I agree with, how can one exercise such preferences in a dark room of a bathhouse? That's the double standards I am referring to when I wrote the post. 

Ok, so could we just be honest and straightforward to each other in the “community” and beyond that “yes, size is critical for gay people;  yes, gays do not like and have no sexual attraction to feminine guys;  yes, the gay community has sex porn standards according to which the only way for us to fuck is to exploit the prison culture and the culture of rape;  yes, the gay community attracts heteronormativity, patriarchy, objectification and heteronormative gender sexual behavioral roles where Top always dominates Bottom, etc.  Why and for what reason this "community" tells everyone that this "community" wants to be equal, diverse, inclusive, friendly, respectful, tolerant  with not having a place for bullying or shame with no matter the reasons while in the real time  this is a huge hypocrisy and lies? 

[Guest POZitiveBoyZ]

On 8/6/2020 at 11:47 AM, Cutedelicategay said:

This has been an interesting read. However the gay community has been deeply entrenched in relating themselves with fashionistas and porn stars. That's the standard we most gays set for themselves. Furthermore it is deeply divided psychologically as in peer pressure in order to belong to a group. Unlike my straight friends I take more time to dress up for a bar outing and that's why this entire feeling for "types" and "preferences". 

When people talk about sexual preferences, which by the way I agree with, how can one exercise such preferences in a dark room of a bathhouse? That's the double standards I am referring to when I wrote the post. 

Yes! And I hate myself for being Gay! I hate this “community” because this “community” is hate me for who I am! Because gays are hate me! Because this is a place and community is not for me! Because I can’t be happy with who I am. Because this “community” showed me this’s a place not for everyone and especially for not someone who looks different than a certain way of the “gay beauty standards” where if you want to be acceptable and wanted and fuckable then you have to be looks like a Gay Porn Star

[BlackDude]

All this post tells me is that the gay “community” is not ready to have a real conversation about race. Most of the time, you are hearing from dudes who are whining about not hooking up with white dudes or who are not going to tell the truth because they are afraid of loosing sexual access to a certain group of people. Once a guy tells you he is not interested in having sexual access to you, most of these “preference” dudes feel powerless and are not interested in any conversation in which they are not in a power position. Just my opinion. 

[GermanFucker]

55 minutes ago, BlackDude said:

All this post tells me is that the gay “community” is not ready to have a real conversation about race. Most of the time, you are hearing from dudes who are whining about not hooking up with white dudes or who are not going to tell the truth because they are afraid of loosing sexual access to a certain group of people. Once a guy tells you he is not interested in having sexual access to you, most of these “preference” dudes feel powerless and are not interested in any conversation in which they are not in a power position. Just my opinion. 

"In every gay relationship one loves the other just a bit more, and that means that the other one has all the power" .... ok, we are talking about sex here, not love. But there is an element of truth here just as well. Male sexuality has that power element to it and if you talk about gay sex, it's double the male component.

Is "preference" being used as an excuse for being a racist? Yes. But I still think to a certain degree one has to separate the question of societal racism from sexual dynamics. If you compare the two sentences "I want my [black, asian etc.] neighbor to be treated the same as me" and "I want to be treated the same as my [...] neighbor." and react differently emotionally and don't see that they are the same thing, if you are afraid of Corey Booker starting a low-income housing project in your neighborhood, if you try to avoid your [insert ethnic background here] co-workers, well then you might a racist Karen. That's real life.

But sex is so much more complicated. E.g.: I'm more or less 6'7". (My best friends in school were 6'8" and 6'6" *lol) I instinctively gravitate towards men taller than 6'. Because it makes me feel comfortable and at ease literally seeing eye-to-eye. If you're 5'3" I might actually overlook you. By extrapolation one could say that my clear preference is Nothern European and African American types, that I am indifferent to Latinos and middle eastern guys and that I discriminate against Indians and East Asians. Are there exceptions? Sure. Do I consider myself racist. No! But is there a pattern? Probably true.

One of my first and best regular bareback fuckbuddies (started around the years 2000) was an African American. I realized that he was was developing feelings towards me and I kind of let our thing peter out. Was it because of the color of his skin? Nope. But I was barely 20 and he was 40. I didn't see a way to have a relationship on equal footing, mostly due to my own lack of experience.

What goes to say: Sex is complicated. And sexual politics even more so. My point is: Don't be an asshole in real life. And when it comes to sex, I'm with Martin Luther King: Take a measure of the man and judge him by the content of his character.

And you can call me a bleeding-heart liber......tarian, but "thug", "redneck", "potatoe" (as an anti-German slur) make me all cringe.

 

 

[BgChsr35]

I have a fwb i hookup with occasionally and it sounds weird but he loves for me to say racial slurs and he knows im not racist, but it makes him harder and drive deeper. 

He is a very hung black top and as long as it gets him going i guess im down. Anything to please the top.

Not really my thing but i do it when he asks me too.

[find91]

On 8/8/2020 at 4:38 PM, RawPlug said:

I think your first paragraph is spot on, although it can be argued that, to a degree, all sexual encounters involve a degree of sexual fantasy. 
And as a famous playwright once wrote “You’ll regret not having fun with your genitals when you’re dead”.  

 

It's not the fantasy that is the issue. It's the fetisization and dehumanization that is point and problem. You can have fantasy of being taken by a strong man or raped by an individual, but what I'm talking about are those that fantasize about Big Black Dick or big Arab dick and go out in real life to collect BBC or force themselves on certain ethnicities even when these ethnic individual stated they are a bottom lol. People are more than just a dick or ass. This is fucking Pokemon human beings aren't meant to be collected.

[find91]

On 8/10/2020 at 1:48 AM, BootmanLA said:

I respectfully disagree.

If I'm looking for a potential sex partner in a given geographical area, if there are no filters (since I'm already limiting to the area) then there's no advantage whatsoever to using the app over walking down the street. Worse, because at least on the street (or in a bar) I can observe potential hookups and gauge my response to them. Whether I'm looking for a guy who's tall enough to make me feel small, or small enough I could pick him up in my arms; whether he's the shy quiet type that catches my eye or a fun-loving extrovert who intrigues me because he seems enthusiastic - I can at least see those things in person that I can't see looking at thumbnail pictures. 

Eliminating filters suggests that nobody's preferences for anything - height, weight, hairiness, preferred role(s), whatever - are valid, and you're therefore obligated to give every single profile a shot hoping there may or may not be a match. If this is how Squirt wants to differentiate itself in the marketplace, I suspect it'll be a spectacular failure.

That doesn't mean I think guys who will only have sex with (for instance) guys who are +/- 3 years of their own age, at least 2" taller, dark-haired, smooth, muscular, and a versatile top shouldn't open themselves up to other possibilities. I think they'd be surprised at what they find and like. But I seriously doubt trying to impose that behavior by eliminating filters is going to work as a market strategy.

The problem is not the apps but the people that use them. Apps will not dispel racist and toxic prejudices in the LGBTQX community if the members don't listen to each other and self examine their own biases. 

Example: I'm not normally attracted to fem guys. I can just passe this off as just my preference but on further self examination I realize I tended to associate fem guys with queeny bitchy gay men that bitch and tear down other gay men for kicks. Furthermore, being bi fem guys aren't anything similar to women so the aspects I like for women are missing, thus no connect. All that being said I have met fem guys that I really gel with and I start to realize that my generalization and faulty associations of the group wasn't allowing me to see people for how they are I was just grouping them in a box and it's unfair, wrong and you miss out on some great moments. I realize it wasn't fem guys I disliked, it was bitchy hyper critical people that turned me off. (I hope this makes sense)

Ya everyone has sexual preferences but true preferences tend to be more general than you think. We just add a ton of baggage on on top of them

[tallslenderguy]

i think one of the bigger blocks the gay community may have to seeing racism is that many (most?) individually do not want to be racist.  i'd wager that most consider racism to be repugnant. i think for most, racism is just another form of ethnocentricity. I.e., a lot of racist notions are culturally programmed in as the 'norm,' with no negative connotation associated by the one who feels it's 'just normal.'  

i think the gay community could have a leg up on understanding this because, while being gay is not a race,  we're a social minority that has been subjected to stereotyping and prejudice.   For instance, i do not fit the stereotypes many have for a gay guy, so i have to tell people i'm gay if i want them to know.  It also means i often inadvertently fly under the radar.  In the break room, if people think they are among all straights, some let their true feelings and thoughts show about 'gay' people, not knowing that the person they are sharing those stereotypes with is gay.  They are relating to their idea of a person rather than the actual person. 

i think that is why so much bias, prejudice, persists. A lot of time we don't see it for what it is because we know we don't want to be prejudiced. But not wanting to be something is not equal to not being that. 

We can also do reverse bias/stereotyping where our stereotype has what we consider a positive association. We don't think of it aa a stereotype because we have a positive association with it.  For example: "Big Black Cock"  (BBC). In the gay community, having a big cock is generally a good thing, so many look at the term "BBC" as a compliment, and "hey, i'm not prejudiced, i have lots of black friends."   One may have black friends, but does one have friends who happen to be black?

[NoFucksGiven]

14 hours ago, find91 said:

It's not the fantasy that is the issue. It's the fetisization and dehumanization that is point and problem. You can have fantasy of being taken by a strong man or raped by an individual, but what I'm talking about are those that fantasize about Big Black Dick or big Arab dick and go out in real life to collect BBC or force themselves on certain ethnicities even when these ethnic individual stated they are a bottom lol. People are more than just a dick or ass. This is fucking Pokemon human beings aren't meant to be collected.

In that sense, you are 100% correct. A man isn’t a life support system for a  penis.

[tallslenderguy]

9 hours ago, RawPlug said:

A man isn’t a life support system for a  penis.

^^^Haha, that's brilliant. i love this.^^^

[blackrobe]

10 hours ago, RawPlug said:

In that sense, you are 100% correct. A man isn’t a life support system for a  penis.

This is why I keep talking about how we fuck the whole man. The man uses his dick and his body and his mind to fuck and breed and own another man. 

[BootmanLA]

16 hours ago, RawPlug said:

In that sense, you are 100% correct. A man isn’t a life support system for a  penis.

This, exactly. It's why I hate the term "BBC" - often used as a shortcut to refer to the entire man. "A BBC came over yesterday and bred my hole". I always want to ask if it rolled itself the entire way or did someone put it in an Uber for delivery to you.