Words losing their meaning

[raunchycumslut]

Been getting more and more frustrated on dating and hookup sites the last couple years. I get language is fluid and constantly evolves, but I feel like there is no longer a common lexicon among gay/bi men and kinksters. Words that used to have specific meanings have now been misused so much that they have become almost useless when trying to find partners with compatible interests. When words are stripped of all meaning, how do you communicate?

It is very frustrating to look for a bear and have profiles of obese, hairless guys that previously were chubs (not body shaming, just not what I’m after), or some skinny twink with a beard, be at the top of the search results. Ditto ‘Daddy’ now being used to refer to guys too young to buy booze in most of the US. Or how saying I “can be a bit sub” on a profile seems to be interpreted as “no limits pain pig and toilet fag”. ‘Dom/sub’ only seems to refer specifically to BDSM activities and not the dynamic. ‘Dom Top’, ‘Sir’, ‘Daddy’ ‘Alpha Male’, and ‘Master’ seem to be interchangeable now. Likewise for ‘Sub’, ‘Slave’, ‘Faggot’, and ‘Boy’. ‘Raunch’ now seems just another word for ‘scat’. I’m sure there are a lot of other examples but you get the idea.

Anyone else noticing this? Or am I just in an area full of idiots?

Edited August 29, 2020 by raunchycumslut

[ErosWired]

You are not alone. I attribute some of it directly to the apps which prompt men to build profiles for themselves on the basis of checking of groups of “interests” or “tribes”. In doing so, guys then associate themselves with words that attach to practices they’ve never actually done, so to shoehorn themselves into the category they stretch the category to fit themselves.

Esoteric communities like the BDSM lifestyle are particularly susceptible to this because every guy likes to think he’s a little sexually edgy, and the dearth of actual understanding about what BDSM is  all about makes it easy to imagine that it’s exactly what you want it to be. Every vanilla fucker sees Fifty Shades and suddenly he’s all about the lingo even if he’s never been flogged in his life.

I think other cases are simply a matter of there not being s better alternative. “Daddy” gets too much use because there’s a broad swath of dad-bod-ish men past a certain fresh age that don’t meet any significant category, but need a word to describe them. Likewise, bear is overused, but there really aren’t that many other mammals (besides otters) available.

 I just fear the day we turn into one of those drink-vending machines that let you combine flavors - eventuall, all the drinks start to taste the same.

[bbzh]

I agree with the posts above. I think there may be a couple of other factors at play here. First, a side note: I distinctly recall when Craigslist and some of the apps like Grindr were not letting people use terms like "bareback" or "cumdump" in their profiles without getting flagged and shut down. That led, in my opinion, to the emergence of "are you clean?" -- "DDF" (drug disease free) -- "anything goes"  -- and blurring of the term "kink", etc. Now you can see PrEP on profiles everywhere, a blatant sales pitch for barebacking. In other words, people end up forcing themselves into boxes and they blur lines so as not to become invisible. Moreover, these profile owners do have friends/work colleagues on these platforms and this often drives their behavior. 

If you're into bears, I'd cruise on the sites/apps specifically targeting just bears (e.g. bearwww, GROWLr, etc). There are many out there. And once corona is a thing of the past, go to bear events/cruises/bars. I've been to a few and they're very impressive. They need our support. Deep friendships often form because true tribe members are often loyal and support these events. I know the younger generation lives on their phones and apps and that only adds to this confusion about labels and the need to fit in. I always say you can't fake the funk in person so put more emphasis on where people from your tribe congregate and less on what boxes they tick online. 

Also, consider putting a photo or two in your profile showing your "dream" guy. That way, maybe you get better results, or at least it discourages people who think they're in the tribe - but aren't - from approaching you.

 

[viking8x6]

I think this is somewhat true, but part of what you're describing is simply a failure of categorization. My take on that is that while putting people in boxes is perhaps a useful way to trim the field to something manageable, it is inevitably error-prone and leads to false generalizations. Human beings are unique and even if all I'm looking for is a half hour romp, it pays to remember that and judge each one on his (or their) own merits.

That said, there's also a component of our own perspective shifting as we get older, more experienced, and (hopefully) wiser. I am very much aware that I am a lot less tolerant of BS in the hookup arena than I was 20 years ago - I know what I like, but even if a guy fits that description (which isn't crazy narrow) I won't put up with endless chatting to no purpose (are we gonna fuck, or just talk all day?), people with neither pic nor stats, people who cannot converse in sentences of more than one word... the list goes on. As a result, I probably have a lot less sex than I could, and I certainly have a lot less than I'd like. But my sanity and equanimity suffer a lot less, and I waste less time online.

[tallslenderguy]

i don't know?  i do think, as you note, that language is fluid. Maybe that 'fluid' is moving faster and farther because of technology?

What i run into is guys who don't use words at all, or as few as they can?  i think bbzh may have the right idea, suggesting you put "a photo or two in your profile showing your dream guy."  my impression is a lot of guys on apps don't even look at or use words, they just 'communicate'  in pictures?  So maybe instead of writing profiles, we should be putting picture books together?

i love profiles where the guy claims he is "serious" and 'looking for the love of his life," then writes pretty much nothing else.  Or only writes: "if you have questions, just ask."  LAMO, ask questions based on what?  Here's another favorite on a hook up site: "looking for fun."  Or: "let's get together and see what happens."   

my experience has been, more than words losing meaning, it seems nine out of ten guys on gay sites do not know how to use words?  Or do not want to?  It seems to me that many guys are not self aware, do not know how to articulate their thoughts or feelings, are afraid to be open, or a combination of those factors?  

[ErosWired]

@bbzh makes some excellent points - the need to morph words into code - to intentionally give them a sub-meaning so that we can still communicate certain ideas past moral firewalls - absolutely is at play. And I second seeking out those disrete (though not necessarily discreet!) communities where bears-of-a-feather bump uglies together. They form clubs, munches, have special events at gay campgrounds, all kinds of things, and apps like Growlr do, at least for now, seem to serve mostly their chosen tribe. Perhaps this is because their categorization terminology is more targeted.

Personally, I would never put a ‘dream guy’ pic in my profile because something like that is likely, I think, to filter out more than it filters in. It basically forces the prospective hookup to swipe left or right on himself on your behalf, without any discussion, based on an assumption of what you will reject - i.e., anything that isn’t in that picture. Maybe that’s your goal, but You may find it a long, dry spell between fuckings.

44 minutes ago, tallslenderguy said:

my experience has been, more than words losing meaning, it seems nine out of ten guys on gay sites do not know how to use words?

Ding! Give the man a free bathhouse coupon. The internet in general, and social media in particular, is becoming exponentially more visual-based. Verbal/textual skills are declining right before our eyes - people are even falling out if the habit of spelling standard English words, amirite? B4 u kno it ur post iz ful of this shit. SMH. TLDR; What he said ^.

One thing I have found, though, because I myself refuse to abandon the beauty and rich expressive utility of English when I send messages to people is that they usually begin to respond at least somewhat in kind. I think they realize that I’m not going to speak their app-creole bastardization of the language, and so they default to the real thing to communicate. I don’t know hiw much use that is in dealing with the broader problems you point out arising from word generalization, but I think the less we choose to promote it in our own communications with other men, the slower it will take hold. Societal change comes only from individual change.

[tallslenderguy]

6 minutes ago, ErosWired said:

One thing I have found, though, because I myself refuse to abandon the beauty and rich expressive utility of English when I send messages to people is that they usually begin to respond at least somewhat in kind. I think they realize that I’m not going to speak their app-creole bastardization of the language, and so they default to the real thing to communicate. I don’t know hiw much use that is in dealing with the broader problems you point out arising from word generalization, but I think the less we choose to promote it in our own communications with other men, the slower it will take hold. Societal change comes only from individual change.

i will include some app-speak at times, depending on who i am writing to, but use it inclusively vs exclusively.   i'm a healthcare worker, we communicate using abbreviations and acronyms all the time.  Like yourself though, i love words and their power to affect.   Unfortunately, i think 'it' has already taken hold with a large chunk of the population?  

Just this morning i had an exchange with a guy on "Squirt."  He sent me a "chat" message: "help me cum pls. I'm mobile."  i immediately went to his profile to get some idea of who was hitting on me and: no picture, position: rather not say.  It did have his age, height and weight, that he was gay and caucasian.  In the message portion he wrote: "Looking for like minded people for adult activities."  Into: "sucking, jerking, party & play."   That's it, the rest was blank.  

Normally, i'd just ignore something like this, but i responded in an email: 

"There is absolutely no snark intended by this email, i'm genuinely trying to help you. 
Your profile has virtually nothing in it about you, no picture, few to no words, nothing of your self? You say you are "looking for like minded people," but then, there is nothing of your "mind" in your profile?  
You are essentially asking guys to connect to the invisible man?  
You sent me a chat message asking me to "help me cum pls," but when i read your profile i find no-one there?"

He replied:

"Not sure what the deal is .sorry. I'm 5ft7 179 lbs cut, clean , 6 inch. In  (location). I'm mobile"

This is pretty much the kind of response i get when i try to explain, that or a very offended, defensive reply, so i usually don't even make the effort. 

[ErosWired]

7 minutes ago, tallslenderguy said:

i will include some app-speak at times, depending on who i am writing to, but use it inclusively vs exclusively.   i'm a healthcare worker, we communicate using abbreviations and acronyms all the time.  Like yourself though, i love words and their power to affect.   Unfortunately, i think 'it' has already taken hold with a large chunk of the population?  

Just this morning i had an exchange with a guy on "Squirt."  He sent me a "chat" message: "help me cum pls. I'm mobile."  i immediately went to his profile to get some idea of who was hitting on me and: no picture, position: rather not say.  It did have his age, height and weight, that he was gay and caucasian.  In the message portion he wrote: "Looking for like minded people for adult activities."  Into: "sucking, jerking, party & play."   That's it, the rest was blank.  

Normally, i'd just ignore something like this, but i responded in an email: 

"There is absolutely no snark intended by this email, i'm genuinely trying to help you. 
Your profile has virtually nothing in it about you, no picture, few to no words, nothing of your self? You say you are "looking for like minded people," but then, there is nothing of your "mind" in your profile?  
You are essentially asking guys to connect to the invisible man?  
You sent me a chat message asking me to "help me cum pls," but when i read your profile i find no-one there?"

He replied:

"Not sure what the deal is .sorry. I'm 5ft7 179 lbs cut, clean , 6 inch. In  (location). I'm mobile"

This is pretty much the kind of response i get when i try to explain, that or a very offended, defensive reply, so i usually don't even make the effort. 

*sigh* Bless you, you’re like me, always trying to be extra-helpful just when they didn’t even want to know they needed it. That dude is blithely tooling around with an shell of an app profile, likely thinking to himself, “These apps suck, nobody ever hits on my profile” and spends his day in sexual frustration because he can’t be bothered to use his words.

Like you, I probably would have assumed the message was a bot or s scam, and even if some little intuition made me check him out, I might have asked him the same questions. I gather you did not “help him cum?”

[tallslenderguy]

21 minutes ago, ErosWired said:

*sigh* Bless you, you’re like me, always trying to be extra-helpful just when they didn’t even want to know they needed it. That dude is blithely tooling around with an shell of an app profile, likely thinking to himself, “These apps suck, nobody ever hits on my profile” and spends his day in sexual frustration because he can’t be bothered to use his words.

Like you, I probably would have assumed the message was a bot or s scam, and even if some little intuition made me check him out, I might have asked him the same questions. I gather you did not “help him cum?”

"Sigh" indeed.  

i thought exactly the same thing, i.e., that he is "likely thinking to himself, “These apps suck, nobody ever hits on my profile” and spends his day in sexual frustration....""  This particular guy didn't strike me as a "bot or a scam" (though they too abound), just as clueless. 

[laughing].  No, i "did not help him cum."   i didn't want to do the teeth pulling. i imagine he was a bottom or versatile, not really looking to cum at all but wanting to get fucked or suck cock. But who knows? That's information he chooses not to divulge?  It's weird to me that these guys don't catch on how they can save time by using their profile to pre qualify and weed out the guys who are not a match?  The part that really cracked me up is "looking for like minded people" but doesn't catch on that he needs to share a wee bit of his mind in order for that to happen? And what the fuck is "adult activities?"  Shuffle board?  Wine tasting?  Opera? Voting? Drinking?  

i think a lot of guys just assume people will know what they want, it doesn't occur to them that they have to actually be more specific?  What i suspect is they are afraid and ignorant. They are used to someone else carrying the ball for them?   It's hard for me to imagine they get much of anything, especially since it seems 90 percent of the app population seems just like them?  i wonder if they respond to profiles like theirs? 

[ErosWired]

37 minutes ago, tallslenderguy said:

It's hard for me to imagine they get much of anything, especially since it seems 90 percent of the app population seems just like them?  i wonder if they respond to profiles like theirs? 

I’m sure they don’t, and I suspect most of them don’t even realize how their word-stingy profiles make them appear indistinguishable from all the other word-stingy profiles. Coming full circle back to the OP’s original point, it may be that the words themselves may still have power to guide the right men together, it’s just that a significant number of people have simply stopped using them at all!

If a profile says nothing but “Ask me” it suggests the owner doesn’t possess the emotional or sexual vocabulary to answer them if you did. For him, those words lose their meaning because they were never used.

Edited August 29, 2020 by ErosWired

[BootmanLA]

4 minutes ago, ErosWired said:

I’m sure they don’t, and I suspect most of them don’t even realize how their word-stingy profiles make them appear indistinguishable from all the other word-stingy profiles. Coming full circle back to the OP’s original point, it may be that the words themselves may still have power to guide the right men together, it’s just that a significant number of people have simply stopped using them at all!

If a profile says nothing but “Ask me” it suggests the owner doesn’t possess the emotional or sexual vocabulary to answer them if you did. For him, those words lose their meaning because they were never used.

Precisely. I have what I will (somewhat immodestly) call a large vocabulary, and it's full of words with particular meanings. I choose the ones that express as close as is possible the meaning I want to convey. Hence, one of my least-favorite things in the world is correcting people who tell me "So you're saying X" when I said Y, very clearly and unequivocally - and the only way to get X out of that is to assume I'm also saying Z and A through F (which, if true, would make X a logical extension of my original thought).

It's a lost cause, though, because too many people don't even read what you DO write; they come to what you write or say with some preconceived notions and everything - literally everything - that enters into their minds is filtered through those notions. So all the care one may take with writing a profile (or a message post, or whatever), using exactly the words that mean what you wish to convey, is wasted.

[tallslenderguy]

3 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

It's a lost cause, though, because too many people don't even read what you DO write; they come to what you write or say with some preconceived notions and everything - literally everything - that enters into their minds is filtered through those notions. So all the care one may take with writing a profile (or a message post, or whatever), using exactly the words that mean what you wish to convey, is wasted.

^^^This^^^

i have long thought that one of the reasons many guys profiles are so short is they assume people already know who and how they are, it doesn't even occur to them that they have to tell people what they think and feel.  It's egocentricity similar to the ethnocentricity that doesn't think, just acts as though everyone is as they are. 

[NWUSHorny]

While I agree with the previous posters on most of what is being said, my biggest pet peeve is that top and bottom have lost there meaning on the hookup apps.  I run across too many guys that identify as one or the other but either write something in the description that indicates they don't do anal (or in many cases even oral) or even worse hookup with you before they admit they aren't into anything that I consider sex.

[chiilfuck]

Hello,

Yes, I have been confused by some recent profiles on BBRT that indicate 'safe" or "oral only."  Hmmm.......on a bareback site!

 

chiilfuck

 

 

[drscorpio]

I think as hookup sites become more mainstream they fill up with flakes and time wasters and people who don't care what the conventions of the site are. In the beginning, hooking up online was viewed as sleazy and maybe even desperate. The sites were mostly filled with guys like us (me anyway) who were looking to get laid. They have become so mainstream now that they aren't much nearly as useful. 

That's what I hated most about losing Craigslist. It was always viewed as a little too trashy by most which meant people on there were down to fuck.