Trump supporters?

[nospokenword]

1 hour ago, LiamCart said:

The electoral college was established so states like California and New York would not dominate who was elected in national elections.  It is a fair system.  Getting rid of it would put smaller states at a huge disadvantage and would mean residents in those states would have no voice. 

California didn't exist when the constitution was written. The electoral college was developed to give slave states equal representation with free northern states. The result is that people who live in small states have an over weighted vote. This isn't fair or good. We should all have equal representation. There is no reason that a person who lives in Wyoming should have 2.5 times the representation of someone who lives in California. It is unjustifiable.

[Ranger Rick]

If only LGBT people would stop thinking for themselves and vote in partisan lockstep like they're supposed to.

[rawTOP]

38 minutes ago, Ranger Rick said:

If only LGBT people would stop thinking for themselves and vote in partisan lockstep like they're supposed to.

There's a word for voting against your own self-interest to the point that you cause yourself harm. It's the same word we use for Republicans who support a tax system which doesn't ask the richest people to pay their fair share.

It's only partisan because one party hates gay people and the other embraces them.

[Ranger Rick]

My observation has been LGBT hate Republicans a lot more than Republicans "hate" gays. Every election year, the same old same old scare tactics get rolled out. "George Bush will put LGBT in concentration camps." "Mike Pence will electrocute gay teens." I'm politically independent and moderate; I just find the scare tactics, frankly, an insult to my intelligence.

[rawTOP]

4 hours ago, Ranger Rick said:

My observation has been LGBT hate Republicans a lot more than Republicans "hate" gays. Every election year, the same old same old scare tactics get rolled out. "George Bush will put LGBT in concentration camps." "Mike Pence will electrocute gay teens." I'm politically independent and moderate; I just find the scare tactics, frankly, an insult to my intelligence.

LGBT folks fear Republicans more than we hate them. But that fear is well-founded. When your life is as stake, fear is the smart response. And LGBT lives are absolutely at stake. The number of murders of trans folks is really high this year. Proposed changes to the Affordable Care Act will affect a lot of poz guys and trans folks in ways that could kill them or cause them serious harm. Hate crimes are up, fueled by the xenophobia of the Republican party – that means an increase in gay bashings & murders. The "gay panic" defense is supported by Republicans – allowing the killers of gay folks to get away with it. And it looks likely that there will be roll-backs in gay marriage which will render our marriages worth less than straight marriages. That will lead to people losing their jobs, gay partners being denied immigration statuses to let them in to the US, etc. And some of those people will commit suicide.

Your picking red herring phrases like "concentration camps" – phrases that were never actually spoken by anyone who you should take seriously – to belittle the danger the Republican Party poses to the gay community. That's NOT OK! There is a clear and present danger – open your eyes and see it!

[akula]

4 hours ago, Ranger Rick said:

My observation has been LGBT hate Republicans a lot more than Republicans "hate" gays. Every election year, the same old same old scare tactics get rolled out. "George Bush will put LGBT in concentration camps." "Mike Pence will electrocute gay teens." I'm politically independent and moderate; I just find the scare tactics, frankly, an insult to my intelligence.

Ok Rick lets look at this train of thought. Gays hate republicans more then republicans hate gays. Lets go back to the 1980's, AIDS made it self known in 1981 Ronny Raygun didn't mention AIDS until the end of 1985 but it only was killing gays so who gave a fuck? you might want to watch the documentary short by Scott Calonico called When AIDS Was Funny. It notes one of the exchanges between a reporter, Lester Kinsolving asking reaguns press secretary Larry Speakes about AIDS and Speakes jokes and laughs about it.  Says alot there. Bush senior gave lots of li[p service to AIDS and gay rights but nothing more. Now lets see how Bill Clinton did. One of the first things he did was try to lift the ban on gays serving in the military and who fought tooth and nail to stop him? Oh ya republicans 100% did some democrats go that way too yes but not to the level the republicans did.  Now lets see Bush jr. his entire 8 years was demonizing gays and lets not forget he was the one along with all the republicans in federal and state levels that tried to ban gay marriage by passing a Constitutional Amendment. Now Obama, was he the gays best friend? No but we got rid of the military ban of gays and got gay marriage under him. And now we have donald dump, the man who promised during his campaign to put judges on the supreme court who would overturn gay marriage and other gay rights and shortly after donald drump was sworn in as President, federal agency websites scrubbed nearly all mentions of LGBTQ rights. He HAS put 2 anti LGBTQ judges on the supreme court and a 3rd is well on her way there. Lets not forget that he has banded trans people from serving in the military contrary to all evidence that the only people that thinks trans people are a threat are losers that have never served a day in uniform. So just maybe your full of shit and republican actually don't hate us they LOATH us. So you can keep making lame excuses as to why you support republicans but the vast majority of LGBTQ people see that republicans are not our friends. 

[Ranger Rick]

Did George Bush put gay people in concentration camps? 

Did Mike Pence electrocute gay teenagers? 

No? 

If you want to keep believing the scare tactics, you do you. 

But I'm not gullible. 

[BootmanLA]

11 hours ago, LiamCart said:

The electoral college was established so states like California and New York would not dominate who was elected in national elections.  It is a fair system.  Getting rid of it would put smaller states at a huge disadvantage and would mean residents in those states would have no voice. 

That's just insanely stupid. California was part of Mexico, itself a colony of Spain, when the Electoral College was established. And the discrepancy in population between, say, California and Wyoming today is an order of magnitude greater than that between the largest and smallest states in 1787. 

Your overly simplistic and ill-informed explanation notwithstanding, the actual reason was so that southern states, where close to half the population was enslaved non-citizens or Native American and couldn't vote, could still exert overwhelming influence over the selection of the president. It's no coincidence that five of the first seven presidents were slaveholders personally and representing slave states. And I'm sorry, but it takes a special kind of dumb to think that the problem is large states dominating. What really happens, as is patently obvious to even the most dim-witted among us, is that when a state is consistently 55% voting for one party, 45% of that state's votes are essentially thrown away. Almost one-third of Californians voted for Trump in 2016 (why, I don't know, but they did). More than 1/3 of New York voters voted for Trump. Nearly 40% of Illinois voters voted for Trump. Those are all votes - for your favored candidate - that counted for ZERO. 

A popular vote would ensure that wouldn't happen - that the substantial minority of voters in CA and NY and IL would be heard, along with the substantial minority of Democrats in places like Georgia and Texas and Florida. Big states wouldn't dominate any more because all the other voters in those states would be "in play" just like the handful of voters in places like Wisconsin and Iowa and other swing states. Candidates would have every incentive to turn out the vote in every state, not just the few where the vote is close.

The real reason Republicans want to keep the Electoral College is that it's the only way they can win national elections any more. Their policies and candidates are so unpopular that they've won the popular vote just one time since 1989. ONE TIME, in over 30 years. But they've held the presidency half of that period. 

Mark my words: When Texas flips into the Democratic column - and it will; demographically, it's almost a certainty - Republicans will suddenly discover that a popular vote has a lot more appeal.

[BootmanLA]

11 hours ago, LiamCart said:

You do not know anything about my reality and my family did not see any "recovery" under Obama. I don't know what recovery you're talking about. There was no recovery. The so called jobs that Obama created were all low paying service sector jobs. The unemployment rate under Obama was artificially lowered. It actually was much higher. Also, Obama only pushed for same sex marriage because Biden forced his hand. I don't believe he was a good president. Period. Good for you if you prospered under Obama. My family's reality was different than yours. 

You're right that I don't know your family's circumstances. I do know the "big picture", however, and the rich made out like bandits. I have no idea why your family didn't prosper during that period, but you have pointed to absolutely nothing Trump did that would explain how suddenly they're doing well when they were downtrodden and poor before. So I rate your claims "unproven at best".

[BootmanLA]

1 hour ago, Ranger Rick said:

Did George Bush put gay people in concentration camps? 

Did Mike Pence electrocute gay teenagers? 

No? 

If you want to keep believing the scare tactics, you do you. 

But I'm not gullible. 

So in other words, you create straw men out of thin air, shoot them down, and think you won the argument.

You're like the pigeon playing chess;  no matter how carefully his opponent considers his moves, the pigeon struts around, knocking over pieces, shits on the board, and then pretends it "won" the game.

Trump is trying, very hard, to overturn the ACA in its entirety. If it falls, poz gay men who have individual insurance (whether on the exchanges or just self-purchased) will no longer have protection for pre-existing conditions. We'll no longer have community rating that makes insurers spread their claims more widely over broad populations. So the $1,150 a month I pay right now for insurance, on which I know Blue Cross loses money (because my HIV meds run about $1,400 a month MORE than that, before any other expenses), will quickly become more like $3,500 a month - which is simply not doable. Tens of thousands of gay men, if not more, are in the same boat I am.

So yes, it's a matter of life and death for some of us. If Trump had, at ANY POINT in his four years so far, actually proposed a health plan that showed a path forward, this might be less of a sticking point. But it's all imaginary bullshit, just like his promises to show his taxes, just like "Infrastructure  Week", just like his alleged "billionaire" status, just like every other fake element in his facade. He's a fraud, and that fraud, if unchecked, will be fatal for lots of us. So I don't give a flying fuck about your imaginary claims that we worried about electrocuting gay teenagers. I worry about real, demonstrable problems. 

[fillmyholeftl]

Just a reminder to the tRump supporters on here. 

[think before following links] https://www.hrc.org/news/the-list-of-trumps-unprecedented-steps-for-the-lgbtq-community?fbclid=IwAR166kimoEi-i48pYBrT9p58ZVd5GP-jSBu3g_FVpocxq8tdIqbd4joL2fQ

[Guest LiamCart]

10 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

You're right that I don't know your family's circumstances. I do know the "big picture", however, and the rich made out like bandits. I have no idea why your family didn't prosper during that period, but you have pointed to absolutely nothing Trump did that would explain how suddenly they're doing well when they were downtrodden and poor before. So I rate your claims "unproven at best".

You are really pissing me off with your lame attacks on my life experience and my views. Don't you EVER tell me my experience is "unproven" because you insist on believing whatever it is you believe about Obama. I had to live through it. If you actually read my initial post I NEVER said my family has prospered because of anything Trump did. What I did say is we suffered as a family because of the poor economic policies of Obama. The number of people on food stamps skyrocketed under Obama and many people gave up on looking for decent employment because it didn't exist. I'll reiterate that Obama's "job growth" was low paying and mostly part-time service sector jobs. NOT jobs that people could make a living at. You can be a Democrat with your nice little Democrat talking points but I call BS on it all. Another thing I clearly said, that you failed to read, is I'm not Republican. I'm also not Democrat.  What I am is Libertarian. I don't buy into either the radical right or radical left ideology. What that means is I'm a free-thinker and I refuse to be forced to believe any ideology because it's the prevalent thing that either political extreme tries to force down our throats. I'm  a free gay young college-age guy and frankly it's people like me that is the future of this country.  I'll fight for my right to be me and I'll fight to be free. By the way, I don't care if you're a Democrat and I believe in your right to believe whatever it is you believe until you attack me as an individual and my family.  Then I will defend myself and my family.  If you're not going to respect me I definitely will not respect you. Bye.

[Guest LiamCart]

10 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

That's just insanely stupid. California was part of Mexico, itself a colony of Spain, when the Electoral College was established. And the discrepancy in population between, say, California and Wyoming today is an order of magnitude greater than that between the largest and smallest states in 1787. 

Your overly simplistic and ill-informed explanation notwithstanding, the actual reason was so that southern states, where close to half the population was enslaved non-citizens or Native American and couldn't vote, could still exert overwhelming influence over the selection of the president. It's no coincidence that five of the first seven presidents were slaveholders personally and representing slave states. And I'm sorry, but it takes a special kind of dumb to think that the problem is large states dominating. What really happens, as is patently obvious to even the most dim-witted among us, is that when a state is consistently 55% voting for one party, 45% of that state's votes are essentially thrown away. Almost one-third of Californians voted for Trump in 2016 (why, I don't know, but they did). More than 1/3 of New York voters voted for Trump. Nearly 40% of Illinois voters voted for Trump. Those are all votes - for your favored candidate - that counted for ZERO. 

A popular vote would ensure that wouldn't happen - that the substantial minority of voters in CA and NY and IL would be heard, along with the substantial minority of Democrats in places like Georgia and Texas and Florida. Big states wouldn't dominate any more because all the other voters in those states would be "in play" just like the handful of voters in places like Wisconsin and Iowa and other swing states. Candidates would have every incentive to turn out the vote in every state, not just the few where the vote is close.

The real reason Republicans want to keep the Electoral College is that it's the only way they can win national elections any more. Their policies and candidates are so unpopular that they've won the popular vote just one time since 1989. ONE TIME, in over 30 years. But they've held the presidency half of that period. 

Mark my words: When Texas flips into the Democratic column - and it will; demographically, it's almost a certainty - Republicans will suddenly discover that a popular vote has a lot more appeal.

All you know how to do is call people stupid who do not believe as you do. I'm not the stupid one here and I'm nit the intolerant freak that you are.  

[Guest LiamCart]

1 minute ago, LiamCart said:

All you know how to do is call people stupid who do not believe as you do. I'm not the stupid one here and I'm nit the intolerant freak that you are.  

*not

[Guest LiamCart]

14 hours ago, akula said:

Ok Rick lets look at this train of thought. Gays hate republicans more then republicans hate gays. Lets go back to the 1980's, AIDS made it self known in 1981 Ronny Raygun didn't mention AIDS until the end of 1985 but it only was killing gays so who gave a fuck? you might want to watch the documentary short by Scott Calonico called When AIDS Was Funny. It notes one of the exchanges between a reporter, Lester Kinsolving asking reaguns press secretary Larry Speakes about AIDS and Speakes jokes and laughs about it.  Says alot there. Bush senior gave lots of li[p service to AIDS and gay rights but nothing more. Now lets see how Bill Clinton did. One of the first things he did was try to lift the ban on gays serving in the military and who fought tooth and nail to stop him? Oh ya republicans 100% did some democrats go that way too yes but not to the level the republicans did.  Now lets see Bush jr. his entire 8 years was demonizing gays and lets not forget he was the one along with all the republicans in federal and state levels that tried to ban gay marriage by passing a Constitutional Amendment. Now Obama, was he the gays best friend? No but we got rid of the military ban of gays and got gay marriage under him. And now we have donald dump, the man who promised during his campaign to put judges on the supreme court who would overturn gay marriage and other gay rights and shortly after donald drump was sworn in as President, federal agency websites scrubbed nearly all mentions of LGBTQ rights. He HAS put 2 anti LGBTQ judges on the supreme court and a 3rd is well on her way there. Lets not forget that he has banded trans people from serving in the military contrary to all evidence that the only people that thinks trans people are a threat are losers that have never served a day in uniform. So just maybe your full of shit and republican actually don't hate us they LOATH us. So you can keep making lame excuses as to why you support republicans but the vast majority of LGBTQ people see that republicans are not our friends. 

Bill Clinton lifted the ban on serving in the military? I thought it was just a change to don't ask don't tell meaning the LGBTQ+ community still did not have any true rights to be in the military.  If they were found out they were booted out. It was Obama that lifted the ban fully.