nospokenword Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 4 hours ago, LiamCart said: Bill Clinton lifted the ban on serving in the military? I thought it was just a change to don't ask don't tell meaning the LGBTQ+ community still did not have any true rights to be in the military. If they were found out they were booted out. It was Obama that lifted the ban fully. If you re-read the original post, it the poster said, "One of the first things he did was try to lift the ban on gays serving in the military." Try. The point, which was well made and ignored by you, was that Democrats have proven themselves to be allies whereas the Republicans have proven themselves as enemies. I say this as someone far left of the Democrats. I am not a partisan Democrat, but I have to point out the many errors and lies that the right try to use against the LGBTQIA2+ community. If they go unchecked, then people might not fully understand that Trump and the Republican party are enemies of the LGBTQIA2+ community. If you're LGBTQIA2+ and supporting Trump, you're an enemy to the LGBTQIA2+ community. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nospokenword Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 4 hours ago, LiamCart said: You are really pissing me off with your lame attacks on my life experience and my views. Don't you EVER tell me my experience is "unproven" because you insist on believing whatever it is you believe about Obama. I had to live through it. If you actually read my initial post I NEVER said my family has prospered because of anything Trump did. What I did say is we suffered as a family because of the poor economic policies of Obama. The number of people on food stamps skyrocketed under Obama and many people gave up on looking for decent employment because it didn't exist. I'll reiterate that Obama's "job growth" was low paying and mostly part-time service sector jobs. NOT jobs that people could make a living at. You can be a Democrat with your nice little Democrat talking points but I call BS on it all. Another thing I clearly said, that you failed to read, is I'm not Republican. I'm also not Democrat. What I am is Libertarian. I don't buy into either the radical right or radical left ideology. What that means is I'm a free-thinker and I refuse to be forced to believe any ideology because it's the prevalent thing that either political extreme tries to force down our throats. I'm a free gay young college-age guy and frankly it's people like me that is the future of this country. I'll fight for my right to be me and I'll fight to be free. By the way, I don't care if you're a Democrat and I believe in your right to believe whatever it is you believe until you attack me as an individual and my family. Then I will defend myself and my family. If you're not going to respect me I definitely will not respect you. Bye. The fact is that Obama inherited a massive economic recession because of Bush's disastrous economic policy. Actual economic statistics show that Obama policy saved the economy. These facts aren't up for debate. They are just the facts. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akula Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 8 hours ago, LiamCart said: Bill Clinton lifted the ban on serving in the military? I thought it was just a change to don't ask don't tell meaning the LGBTQ+ community still did not have any true rights to be in the military. If they were found out they were booted out. It was Obama that lifted the ban fully. Reading comprehension does not appear to be one of your strong points. I said Bill Clinton TRIED to lift the military ban, it was due to the republicans who refused to even consider anything remotely like lifting the ban that we ended up with don't ask don't tell. I remember it very well being I was active duty Army at the time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BootmanLA Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 14 hours ago, LiamCart said: You are really pissing me off with your lame attacks on my life experience and my views. Don't you EVER tell me my experience is "unproven" because you insist on believing whatever it is you believe about Obama. I had to live through it. If you actually read my initial post I NEVER said my family has prospered because of anything Trump did. What I did say is we suffered as a family because of the poor economic policies of Obama. The number of people on food stamps skyrocketed under Obama and many people gave up on looking for decent employment because it didn't exist. I'll reiterate that Obama's "job growth" was low paying and mostly part-time service sector jobs. NOT jobs that people could make a living at. You can be a Democrat with your nice little Democrat talking points but I call BS on it all. Another thing I clearly said, that you failed to read, is I'm not Republican. I'm also not Democrat. What I am is Libertarian. I don't buy into either the radical right or radical left ideology. What that means is I'm a free-thinker and I refuse to be forced to believe any ideology because it's the prevalent thing that either political extreme tries to force down our throats. I'm a free gay young college-age guy and frankly it's people like me that is the future of this country. I'll fight for my right to be me and I'll fight to be free. By the way, I don't care if you're a Democrat and I believe in your right to believe whatever it is you believe until you attack me as an individual and my family. Then I will defend myself and my family. If you're not going to respect me I definitely will not respect you. Bye. Of course the number of people on food stamps skyrocketed under Obama. He inherited the worst recession in US history since the Great Depression. Doh. I'm not attacking you, your family, your beliefs, or anything else. I'm questioning whether something you stated was factual, namely, that your family suffered egregiously under Obama and nothing changed for them until after Trump was elected, because I can't see a single policy change that Trump made which would explain such. I could be wrong; I'm open to having my mind changed, if you can tell me what it was that Trump did that changed things for your family. But in the absence of anything other than a bare assertion that "it happened" I'm going to be skeptical. As for the rest of your (sadly not atypical) "young college-age guy" beliefs: knock yourself out. There's a reason Libertarianism rarely works in practice, particularly on any sort of large scale. Bad luck has a tendency to screw people over and make them realize that it's working together for the common good, not always looking out for oneself, that enables people to thrive. Libertarian hunter-gatherers would have starved to death. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BootmanLA Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 13 hours ago, LiamCart said: Bill Clinton lifted the ban on serving in the military? I thought it was just a change to don't ask don't tell meaning the LGBTQ+ community still did not have any true rights to be in the military. If they were found out they were booted out. It was Obama that lifted the ban fully. Both are true. Prior to Clinton, you couldn't serve in the military, period, if you were gay; you were dishonorably discharged if you were discovered, and the military made ACTIVE efforts to root out gay and lesbian service members. Hanging on the wall in one of the older gay bars in New Orleans is a framed copy of a letter from the Navy command banning sailors from even going into that bar under penalty of dishonorable discharge for homosexual conduct. Just for being in a gay bar. That ban was a military policy, not a law enacted by Congress. Under "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", the military leadership was generally prohibited from inquiring into the sex lives of servicemembers ("Don't Ask") and the servicemembers were told that if they did not bring up their orientation ("Don't Tell"), they were free to serve. That was a compromise between Clinton - who had initially prepared an executive order allowing openly gay people to serve - and Congress, which had ALMOST enough votes to statutorily ban gay people from serving, period - something that would have later been much harder to overturn. DADT was enacted as federal law, which was an advance in gay rights - you no longer had to worry about being kicked out simply for being gay discreetly. Under Obama, who had a Democratic majority in Congress for his first two years, and thanks to somewhat of a change in outlook by some of the Republicans, Congress passed a law repealing DADT and granted the right to serve openly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BootmanLA Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Cumcraversfla said: Really? Biden voted against gay marriage in 1996 and Trump is the first Pres to give an openly gay guy top seceret clearance. Thus if youre voting for Biden you are anti gay. So, nobody is allowed to change a position on anything, gotcha. As for Trump giving a gay man top secret clearance: That's only because Trump doesn't give a shit about intelligence clearances. He gave a top-level clearance to his hopelessly corrupt and compromised son-in-law. He's casually "declassified" military secrets in front of our adversaries, just blurting out shit that ought to be highly classified because he thinks it makes him look good. The only reason the loathsome, vile, corrupt Richard Grennell (who was a disaster as an ambassador and an even bigger one as acting DNI) got a high-level clearance was so that Trump could get him to cover up some of his corruption. Hardly a ringing endorsement for Trump's views on gays; to him, we're useful as patsies to help him, not people worthy of respect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BootmanLA Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Cumcraversfla said: You shouldnt have got me started. Nobody should have gotten you started. You're as raving mad as Crazy Grampa Donnie is. Most of your ill-informed, poorly executed, doctored, borderline libelous "memes" reveal a seriously deformed personality. More importantly, they seem to be exactly like the kind of thing we had trouble with a previous poster who was allegedly in Arizona posting - the same nutty ravings, the same reliance on stupid memes. I suspect we have a ringer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BootmanLA Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 Here's a figure for everyone to consider: 63.6 million. That's the number of people who've filed first-time claims for unemployment in the Trump Recession since mid-March. That's more than half a million people MORE than actually voted for Trump in 2016. Well done Grampa Donnie! Nobody can get more people unemployed than you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimiSucker Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 On 9/30/2020 at 12:45 PM, C10H15N said: With three Nobel Peace Prize nominations to date, he's doing something right. Go look up who's nomination him. Some lunatic professor who barely has the right to nominate led alone any credibility to actually push someone to winning the prize! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiamCart Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 15 hours ago, nospokenword said: If you re-read the original post, it the poster said, "One of the first things he did was try to lift the ban on gays serving in the military." Try. The point, which was well made and ignored by you, was that Democrats have proven themselves to be allies whereas the Republicans have proven themselves as enemies. I say this as someone far left of the Democrats. I am not a partisan Democrat, but I have to point out the many errors and lies that the right try to use against the LGBTQIA2+ community. If they go unchecked, then people might not fully understand that Trump and the Republican party are enemies of the LGBTQIA2+ community. If you're LGBTQIA2+ and supporting Trump, you're an enemy to the LGBTQIA2+ community. I never said I was a supporter of Trump and I never said I was right-wing. I'm Libertarian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiamCart Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 15 hours ago, nospokenword said: The fact is that Obama inherited a massive economic recession because of Bush's disastrous economic policy. Actual economic statistics show that Obama policy saved the economy. These facts aren't up for debate. They are just the facts. Facts in your world maybe. Also, as an American I have a right to debate anything. I'm not going to let any radical left-wing person tell me otherwise since I'm a moderate free-thinker who's not a slave to either the radical right or left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiamCart Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 On 10/9/2020 at 3:20 AM, nospokenword said: California didn't exist when the constitution was written. The electoral college was developed to give slave states equal representation with free northern states. The result is that people who live in small states have an over weighted vote. This isn't fair or good. We should all have equal representation. There is no reason that a person who lives in Wyoming should have 2.5 times the representation of someone who lives in California. It is unjustifiable. Good point in that California obviously was not a state when the Constitution was written. I still believe that the electoral college is a solid system that is better than a straight popular vote. Wyoming would never have a voice in national politics in a popular vote system. California, Texas, and New York would dominate everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiamCart Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 11 hours ago, akula said: Reading comprehension does not appear to be one of your strong points. I said Bill Clinton TRIED to lift the military ban, it was due to the republicans who refused to even consider anything remotely like lifting the ban that we ended up with don't ask don't tell. I remember it very well being I was active duty Army at the time. Go ahead and insult me if that makes you feel better about yourself. I asked a genuine question and you lash out with hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiamCart Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 5 hours ago, BootmanLA said: Of course the number of people on food stamps skyrocketed under Obama. He inherited the worst recession in US history since the Great Depression. Doh. I'm not attacking you, your family, your beliefs, or anything else. I'm questioning whether something you stated was factual, namely, that your family suffered egregiously under Obama and nothing changed for them until after Trump was elected, because I can't see a single policy change that Trump made which would explain such. I could be wrong; I'm open to having my mind changed, if you can tell me what it was that Trump did that changed things for your family. But in the absence of anything other than a bare assertion that "it happened" I'm going to be skeptical. As for the rest of your (sadly not atypical) "young college-age guy" beliefs: knock yourself out. There's a reason Libertarianism rarely works in practice, particularly on any sort of large scale. Bad luck has a tendency to screw people over and make them realize that it's working together for the common good, not always looking out for oneself, that enables people to thrive. Libertarian hunter-gatherers would have starved to death. Fair enough. However, I disagree with you on Libertarian beliefs. Can you tell me one country that was really successful with socialism? I just see from history how socialism destroyed Venezuela and Cuba. I don't trust the government to fairly handle the "common good." I believe politicians will always do what's best for them before the regular citizen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottyrim Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 This whole topic is toxic. The topic is Trump supporters? Which seems an answer yes or no or why, but the reality is that discussion is not really required. The answer we are supposed to have is he is EVIL and HITLER and no Gay person could support him. Basically that is not discussion and it is not a question it is a statement that we all have to say No Never!! So while I think Trump will lose I think the Country is so divided and that the Left think that they are so Good and virtuous that many will just hide their opinions. Why would you subject yourself to an honest answer when all that is wanted Evil!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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