Spunkinmyarse Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, RawPlug said: I notice today that some guys locally are adding “vaccinated” to their online profiles. Yeah, but it makes the rest of us who are still waiting feel like real second-class citizens 😩 So jealous of you guys- it’s not fair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFucksGiven Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, Spunkinmyarse said: Yeah, but it makes the rest of us who are still waiting feel like real second-class citizens 😩 So jealous of you guys- it’s not fair! I was staggered how quickly I got mine. I was expecting it in May at the earliest. My GP surgery seems to be racing through the cohorts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFucksGiven Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 31 minutes ago, Spunkinmyarse said: Yeah, but it makes the rest of us who are still waiting feel like real second-class citizens 😩 So jealous of you guys- it’s not fair! HIV gets you bumped up the NHS queue, of course. But only by one level in my age group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qilly55 Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 On 12/27/2020 at 8:42 AM, tallslenderguy said: Ditto this. It is spot on. i'm a critical care nurse and >1000 hours of direct care experience with Covid poz patients in a critical care setting. Cytokine response syndrome (aka "cytokine storm" or simply "CRS") is the big killer here. We are just starting to figure out the reasons behind who gets this triggered response and who does not. i had two patients a few weeks ago, one relatively young (50) and in good health otherwise, the other was 87 and had several co-morbidities (diabetes, vascular disease, heart disease). The 87 year old started out on high flow O2 equipment where we were forcing ventalation, the other was getting a lessor O2 device. The 87 year old improved at twice the rate of the younger guy. Not only was CRS an emergent factor, it also seems to have longer term ramifications because of lung injury that can take several months to resolve even after the infection has cleared. We are still learning this disease, it is deadly, and even when it is not, if you happen to be the type that gets the CRS response, you are in for an ugly ride. The vaccine is demonstrating 95% efficacy at this point, i'm getting vaccinated next week (i have to wait when i am off work because there can be side effects), We do not know the long term effects of the vaccine, it's new, but we do know the effects of Covid, so putting it on the scales, i'm going with the vaccine. Covid related deaths are a reality, so far, no one has died from the vaccine. It may happen, and yes, some are going to have worse side effects than others, but comparatively, it's the better bet by far. Science is not perfection, it produces the best evidence we have so far and is an ever ongoing pursuit for more and better evidence. Still learning about the disease, but made a,vaccine for it...mmmmm 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrobe Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 2 hours ago, RawPlug said: I notice today that some guys locally are adding “vaccinated” to their online profiles. It bewilders me why men do this based on the science as I understand it. Being vaccinated protects you from becoming sick, or dramatically reduces the severity of the virus if you do become sick. As I understand it, the vaccine studies didn't examine whether it prevents you from passing on the virus. Quote "It's possible that the vaccines protect against COVID-19 disease by preventing a person from becoming infected in the first place. However, it's also possible that the vaccine protects a person from COVID-19 illness, but does not prevent a person from becoming infected. In other words, a vaccinated person may have replicating virus in their nose and throat even if they are protected from becoming sick." - Source: CDC COVID-19 Fact page. Without that data, you have to assume that vaccinated people can still be a carrier of the virus. Ergo, until there is data to the contrary, a vaccination only protects the vaccinated person. The unvaccinated person accrues no known benefit and, even worse, may have a mistaken impression that a vaccinated person is somehow safer for them to fuck than another more COVID-careful unvaccinated person. Because of this, I see people putting forward that they are vaccinated in ads as an inducement to fuck as either evidence that they don't understand enough of the COVID science (so my unvaccinated as shouldn't fuck them), or that they do understand the science, but are totally okay with fucking unvaccinated men who end up unknowingly taking more risk than they understand (so my unvaccinated ass definitely shouldn't fuck them). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFucksGiven Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, blackrobe said: It bewilders me why men do this based on the science as I understand it. Being vaccinated protects you from becoming sick, or dramatically reduces the severity of the virus if you do become sick. As I understand it, the vaccine studies didn't examine whether it prevents you from passing on the virus. Without that data, you have to assume that vaccinated people can still be a carrier of the virus. Ergo, until there is data to the contrary, a vaccination only protects the vaccinated person. The unvaccinated person accrues no known benefit and, even worse, may have a mistaken impression that a vaccinated person is somehow safer for them to fuck than another more COVID-careful unvaccinated person. Because of this, I see people putting forward that they are vaccinated in ads as an inducement to fuck as either evidence that they don't understand enough of the COVID science (so my unvaccinated as shouldn't fuck them), or that they do understand the science, but are totally okay with fucking unvaccinated men who end up unknowingly taking more risk than they understand (so my unvaccinated ass definitely shouldn't fuck them). Today was the first time I saw it, I must admit. I was quite surprised to see it. However, there is emerging evidence that the Oxford jab does prevent around 67% of transmissions, so we’ll see. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrobe Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 41 minutes ago, RawPlug said: Today was the first time I saw it, I must admit. I was quite surprised to see it. However, there is emerging evidence that the Oxford jab does prevent around 67% of transmissions, so we’ll see. The Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine is not approved for emergency use in the US yet, and there are currently clinical trials underway for it. Right now, Astra Zeneca are largely focused on supplying the EU. It's also worth noting that the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are mRNA based while the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine is viral-vector based. These are both new technologies so we should expect there to be differences in how they perform regarding preventing transmission. Based on the data you point to, one third of people vaccinated with the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine (33%) still end up transmitting the virus to someone else. I don't think that's especially good odds. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFucksGiven Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 29 minutes ago, blackrobe said: The Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine is not approved for emergency use in the US yet, and there are currently clinical trials underway for it. Right now, Astra Zeneca are largely focused on supplying the EU. It's also worth noting that the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are mRNA based while the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine is viral-vector based. These are both new technologies so we should expect there to be differences in how they perform regarding preventing transmission. Based on the data you point to, one third of people vaccinated with the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine (33%) still end up transmitting the virus to someone else. I don't think that's especially good odds. YMMV. 30 minutes ago, blackrobe said: The Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine is not approved for emergency use in the US yet, and there are currently clinical trials underway for it. Right now, Astra Zeneca are largely focused on supplying the EU. It's also worth noting that the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are mRNA based while the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine is viral-vector based. These are both new technologies so we should expect there to be differences in how they perform regarding preventing transmission. Based on the data you point to, one third of people vaccinated with the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine (33%) still end up transmitting the virus to someone else. I don't think that's especially good odds. YMMV. Oh, I agree with you that it would be much better if it were 100%. But all the vaccines licensed here have a much higher efficacy than the annual flu jab, I believe. And even two-thirds non-transmission is better than nothing. As for the EU, they’ve buggered up their vaccination programme big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirmaxUK Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, blackrobe said: It bewilders me why men do this based on the science as I understand it. Being vaccinated protects you from becoming sick, or dramatically reduces the severity of the virus if you do become sick. As I understand it, the vaccine studies didn't examine whether it prevents you from passing on the virus. Without that data, you have to assume that vaccinated people can still be a carrier of the virus. Ergo, until there is data to the contrary, a vaccination only protects the vaccinated person. The unvaccinated person accrues no known benefit and, even worse, may have a mistaken impression that a vaccinated person is somehow safer for them to fuck than another more COVID-careful unvaccinated person. Because of this, I see people putting forward that they are vaccinated in ads as an inducement to fuck as either evidence that they don't understand enough of the COVID science (so my unvaccinated as shouldn't fuck them), or that they do understand the science, but are totally okay with fucking unvaccinated men who end up unknowingly taking more risk than they understand (so my unvaccinated ass definitely shouldn't fuck them). Guys are out there fucking anyway, vaccinated or not. You only need read "my last load" or look at the number of hookup ads on BBRT. Those people who are out there taking such risks anyway aren't going to be swayed by whether someone is vaccinated or not. If I saw it on someone's profile I'd take it to imply that they were more comfortable about meeting others and not just jerking off at home. I don't see it as saying "I'm safe, let's fuck". I think most people in the UK are aware that someone who's vaccinated can be an asymptomatic carrier. But then so can someone who's not been vaccinated. So it doesn't matter. If you're looking to hook up then the risk is on you. My reason to post about getting my shot here was more about giving an honest account and document side any affects I experienced. Hopefully it might encourage others. Probably the bigger reason not to advertise your vaccinated status on social media is Vaccine-Shaming which seems rife on Insta and Twitter and borne out of jealousy. There are valid reasons why some of us are higher up the list than others. Not all health conditions are visible or obvious. If someone wants to swap, I'd more than gladly swap out my underlying health conditions in place of a vaccine shot. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrobe Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, RawPlug said: Oh, I agree with you that it would be much better if it were 100%. But all the vaccines licensed here have a much higher efficacy than the annual flu jab, I believe. And even two-thirds non-transmission is better than nothing. As for the EU, they’ve buggered up their vaccination programme big time. I think we're in violent agreement on general probability. I just wanted to ensure US folks knew the data was not there to make any similar transmission prevention claims for the two mRNA based vaccines being distributed in the US, and that any implication that a sex partner who's vaccinated protects you in any way is not founded on data. Having someone in my family land on the 9% "bad" side of a 91% "good" probability taught me not to ignore even small probabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFucksGiven Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 minute ago, blackrobe said: I think we're in violent agreement on general probability. I just wanted to ensure US folks knew the data was not there to make any similar transmission prevention claims for the two mRNA based vaccines being distributed in the US, and that any implication that a sex partner who's vaccinated protects you in any way is not founded on data. Having someone in my family land on the 9% "bad" side of a 91% "good" probability taught me not to ignore even small probabilities. I think we’re actually on the same page. And my original post was really just surprise to having seen it at all - I haven’t before today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFucksGiven Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, AirmaxAndy said: Guys are out there fucking anyway, vaccinated or not. You only need read "my last load" or look at the number of hookup ads on BBRT. Those people who are out there taking such risks anyway aren't going to be swayed by whether someone is vaccinated or not. If I saw it on someone's profile I'd take it to imply that they were more comfortable about meeting others and not just jerking off at home. I don't see it as saying "I'm safe, let's fuck". I think most people in the UK are aware that someone who's vaccinated can be an asymptomatic carrier. But then so can someone who's not been vaccinated. So it doesn't matter. If you're looking to hook up then the risk is on you. My reason to post about getting my shot here was more about giving an honest account and document side any affects I experienced. Hopefully it might encourage others. Probably the bigger reason not to advertise your vaccinated status on social media is Vaccine-Shaming which seems rife on Insta and Twitter and borne out of jealousy. There are valid reasons why some of us are higher up the list than others. Not all health conditions are visible or obvious. If someone wants to swap, I'd more than gladly swap out my underlying health conditions in place of a vaccine shot. I agree, Andy. And the rollout is going so spectacularly well here that some areas are bound to be further ahead in the cohorts than others. I’m lucky to be with a surgery that has been so efficient that they’ve already done most of the over 50s in this catchment area. That’s the luck of the draw, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunkinmyarse Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 No vaccine is ever going to be perfect, but we should be careful not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. In my country hundreds of people are dying of COVID every day: it is not a theoretical or potential harm, it is very much a live one, that is causing massive damage to society in many different ways every single day. How much more damage would be done if we waited another 10 or even 5 years for the perfect vaccine? Anything that can ameliorate the situation NOW is a good thing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingEasy Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 I'm not going to enter the discussion, but I wanted to say that I really appreciate and value you guys and have learned so much from your posts on the site that I hope we can continue to spar with our ideas with no hard feeling taken as it would be a loss otherwise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunkinmyarse Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 Quote Probably the bigger reason not to advertise your vaccinated status on social media is Vaccine-Shaming which seems rife on Insta and Twitter and borne out of jealousy. There are valid reasons why some of us are higher up the list than others. Not all health conditions are visible or obvious. If someone wants to swap, I'd more than gladly swap out my underlying health conditions in place of a vaccine shot. Awww- @AirmaxUK, I was only kidding about being jealous and finding it unfair- I’m happy to wait my turn at the bottom of Cohort 9! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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