Read This! Significant Change In Rules Effective 3/1

[boy4you]

I'm HIV on meds and I PNP. I know some of my brothers and my stories will be removed or edited. You will see fewer stories in the backroom, as some have already posted. The owners have the right to say what We can post. 

[rawTOP]

16 hours ago, Sum1 said:

But PrEP isn't 100% effective - nothing is. It gets close, but there have been cases of people still being infected with HIV despite being on PrEP. Now, that number is very small (6 globally as of 2018, which is miniscule compared to the amount of people on it that have no problems, and there is talk of that number being due to people not taking it properly,) but it is still there.

Seriously, you're going to trash what I'm doing because of an error rate of 6 out of millions of hookups? SMH…

 

10 hours ago, PlayyTimez said:

Confused. When was this statistic changed???

I posted the study to the HIV/Sexual Health sub-forum a few years ago. Poz guys who never progress to AIDS, and are meds compliant actually live slightly longer than neg guys (though with more complications along the way). The theory on why they live longer is that they're seeing their doctor more frequently so problems are caught quickly and dealt with before they become major issues.

 

6 hours ago, cumwhoreDC said:

no one cares about free speech anymore - rip bz

fun while it lasted

You've never had free speech on privately owned websites. This has been the case since the web first started. It is not something new.

Your right to free speech only entitles you to start your own website and take on the legal liability for what happens on that website.

 

6 hours ago, sickpervboy said:

Im just curious about what your intended goal or ideal desired effect of these new restrictions would be?  Are you simply hoping to redefine and be clear about the content displayed within this site?  Or is your goal to make a statement and pass judgement on this sort of content whether it be here or elsewhere?  I can understand and respect feeling a need to err on the side of caution from the perspective of a site owner wanting to be socially responsible.   But as a reader of content I will always maintain that I am perfectly capable of deciding for myself where to draw the line between fantasy and reality. I have never and will never appreciate being "protected" from content that my fragile little mind might read in a fiction and then when I am dying from being incredibly stupid I will be sure to blame unregulated access to too much content.  Personally I wish you would allow for the fiction section to operate with minimal restrictions  and keep your morally gray judgement and rather arbitrary lines drawn to the nonfiction section.  The condemnation of this but not that falls a bit flat.  Could you perhaps find a comprimise or be open to alternative solutions to displace and archive some of the existing content rather than just unilateral deletion of these stories. Stories that the authors worked hard on. Content that brought readers back to your site over and over . Some stories I have come back and reread half a dozen times.  These stories have contributed alot of site traffic and it seems kind of disrespectful to just delete them.  I am curious to hear how the authors feel about this? 

These are simply things I don't want to be associated with. Things I see as harmful to our community. I believe I have a responsibility to do what I can to mitigate their negative effects.

The other issue is that barebacking and being poz are being equated with inevitable significant disability and death. Our community worked hard to shed that image after ARVs brought an end to the AIDS crisis. It harms the poz community for that image to be perpetuated.

For the most part I've hidden threads. In a few cases I've edited some of the text to make the post compliant. But when someone starts a thread with (paraphrasing) "Isn't isn't death and illness sexy? I wanna get sick and die." - there's just no way to fix a thread that starts like that.

[rawTOP]

Since some of you are confused with the new policy and where the lines are drawn, here is a decision flow diagram which should clear things up…

1) Is this a case of a victim telling his story in a factual manner that’s not overly fetishized?
Yes- ALLOWED
No- continue to #2

2) Is this a case of a guy asking a sincere question?
Yes- ALLOWED
No- continue #3

3) Does the post try to initiate or specifically encourage illegal activity (not just mention it happened or generally discuss such activity)?
No- continue to #4
Yes- 3.1) Is the illegality due to the criminalization of HIV or anti-LGBT laws?
Yes- continue to #4
No- 3.2) Is it fictional?
No- BANNED
Yes- continue to #4

4) Does the activity physically harm other people?
No- continue to #5
Yes- 4.1) Is it a real-life situation where the harm is temporary and limited to consensual participants?
Yes- continue to #5
No - 4.2) Does this contribute to building a community of people who encourage each other to get debilitating illnesses and/or die?
Yes - BANNED
No- 4.3) Is it a real-life situation which is non-consensual but there is a way for victim to protect himself from harm?
Yes- continue to #5
No- 4.4) Is it a fictional story that is likely to inspire others to engage in the harmful activity? (The more perceived consequences, the less likely it is that people will follow the example.)
Yes- BANNED
No- 4.5) Does this harm the sexual ecosystem of piggy gay guys?
Yes- BANNED
No- continue to #5

5) Othersise… ALLOWED.

 

So let's go over a few cases:

Consensual bug chasing / gift giving…

✅ 3.1) Where gift giving is illegal it's because of the criminalization of HIV – because these laws are proven to be counterproductive I'm not going to ban it for that reason.
✅ 4.3) Because neg guys can protect themselves from harm with PrEP. I won't ban it for the issue of harm.

 

Encouraging others to get  and spread STIs

❌ 3.0) Intentionally infecting another person with an STD is often considered assault, but is rarely prosecuted, so we continue to #4
❌ 4.1) Not limited to consensual participants
❌ 4.2) Some STIs do cause debilitating illness and death if left untreated (syphilis, hepatitis)
❌ 4.3) No way for victim to protect himself
❌ 4.5) Upping the chances of catching an STD at a bathhouse or sex party harms the sexual ecosystem because fewer guys are willing to take the risk.

 

Saying "AIDSy" looking guys are sexy

✅ 3) Not illegal
✅ 4) Harms no one

 

Encouraging other guys to stay off meds and go "full blown"

✅ 3) Not illegal
❌ 4.1) Harm is likely to be permanent
❌ 4.2) Creates a community of people who encourage debilitating illness and death

 

Consensual permanent scars

✅ 3.0) Because it's consensual it's unlikely to be considered assault. But the top does take a significant legal risk if sub later regrets his consent.
✅ 4.1) Not temporary, but is consensual
✅ 4.2) Even severe scars are rarely debilitating if treated promptly and properly

 

Encouraging someone to engage in "Gainer Fetish" (intentionally overeating to become morbidly obsese)…

✅ 3.0) Not an illegal activity
❌ 4.2) A community of people encouraging each other to get debilitating diseases that will most likely lead to an early death.

 

If you're wondering if something is allowed, just go through those questions.

[J0nn1eb0y]

@rawtop as Biggie once said, "If you don't know, now you know n166@". Thank you for informing us of the rules. I'm not questioning your decision but it's woefully inconsistent and therefore doesn't make sense.

I believe it will become a landmine of editing/rewriting which will diminish contributions. It will likely result in well if this than what about that.

"Harm": not wearing a face mask, seatbelt, not meds compliant for (insert illness here). not getting the Covid shot, speeding with others in car and so on. I felt it was a fantasy site. everyone someone said "wish that was me", I didn't believe them and you didn't either.

White Supremacy is rising at an alarming rate. Race play is your next area of concern

I chased. I chased when I knew I was going to sit down with my wife and tell her I was gay. Did I know I was chasing? Not at all. Life is lived going forward and understood in reverse.

I think you need to reconsider with the endgame in sight. Who are your competitors? What are they doing better? What are you doing better? If you just reduce and don't add you will have something that used to be good.

May I suggest a small group to act as advisors to you?

Good luck.

I'll still fantasize about you breeding my fat ass as my grandfather called it, in his beauty parlor in the Bronx. Trying to humiliate me in front of his customers.

[austin_submale]

I've been on this site since 2012 and I'm not very happy about these rule changes.  I understand it is a private site, and the owners are free to set the rules as they like.  That said, I will probably be a lot less likely to post anything including new fiction stories, for fear of running afoul of the new rules which even after reading and re-reading several times still leave me more than a little confused.  I'm just one insignificant person and I'm sure that nobody really cares what I think, but I may not be the only person who feels the same way, so unfortunately I believe that activity will inevitably suffer considerably.

Well, it was fun while it lasted.  If I get banned for posting this, I wish everyone out there well.

 

[Spunkinmyarse]

@rawTOP, you’re getting a lot of shit for this.  Much more than I thought you would.  For reasons I haven’t the time or inclination to go into right now (I might at a later date), I want you to know that I for one broadly support your move, and I’m sure many other ‘silent’ users of this site do too.

At great personal cost to yourself in terms of both time and effort, you have created a wonderful free space that has been enjoyed by many, many people over the last decade, and you have EVERY right to nudge it in whatever direction you please.

I hope you will not be discouraged in your vision by some of the comments you have received in this thread: keep up the good work!

[rawTOP]

2 hours ago, J0nn1eb0y said:

Who are your competitors? What are they doing better? What are you doing better? If you just reduce and don't add you will have something that used to be good.

May I suggest a small group to act as advisors to you?

Competitors? Probably only NKP. TIM had a forum back when I started this, but I don't know if it still exists. I'm not dissimilar to JustUsBoys, but they're far more mainstream - and far larger.

I know who I want to compete with - I want to compete with BBRT. I want to compete with Squirt.org. I expect Twitter to ban adult this year - I want people to go to one of my sites when they get kicked off.

So the lesson to be learned is that if I want to grow I have to be able to appeal to more mainstream guys. Barebacking is mainstream. Breeding is mainstream. Being a cumdump is mainstream. Poz guys are becoming mainstream. And because of PrEP mainstream guys don't even care of the poz guy is on meds or not. So that's where I need to be.

That said, if a mainstream, poz-friendly cumdump comes here and thinks it's all guys who are into STDs and dying of AIDS they'll run away as fast as their fingers and mouse can take them. I'm more than happy to lose the morbidity and mortality guys to NKP if I can get the mainstream, poz-friendly cumdumps in return. It's what interests me and it's the bigger better market.

 

30 minutes ago, austin_submale said:

I've been on this site since 2012 and I'm not very happy about these rule changes.  I understand it is a private site, and the owners are free to set the rules as they like.  That said, I will probably be a lot less likely to post anything including new fiction stories, for fear of running afoul of the new rules which even after reading and re-reading several times still leave me more than a little confused.  I'm just one insignificant person and I'm sure that nobody really cares what I think, but I may not be the only person who feels the same way, so unfortunately I believe that activity will inevitably suffer considerably.

Well, it was fun while it lasted.  If I get banned for posting this, I wish everyone out there well.

 

It's really not that hard to understand - treat other people with kindness and respect. And look out after your community. Oh, and don't do anything clearly illegal, and don't make it seem wonderful to get sick and die. Do those simple things and you're fine.

[DarkroomTaker]

30 minutes ago, Spunkinmyarse said:

@rawTOP, you’re getting a lot of shit for this.  Much more than I thought you would.  For reasons I haven’t the time or inclination to go into right now (I might at a later date), I want you to know that I for one broadly support your move, and I’m sure many other ‘silent’ users of this site do too.

At great personal cost to yourself in terms of both time and effort, you have created a wonderful free space that has been enjoyed by many, many people over the last decade, and you have EVERY right to nudge it in whatever direction you please.

I hope you will not be discouraged in your vision by some of the comments you have received in this thread: keep up the good work!

I fully support Spunks post RawTop.

 I have been silently following this topic and tbh, pretty disappointed with a lot of  negative responses on the borders of threats and intimidation.

Its your site, you and the moderators work so hard, we dont contribute in anyway with payment to be part of the site, so bollocks to it, just make the changes, thanks for the consultation but you cant please everyone.

Thanks for the work you do RT.

[rawTOP]

1 hour ago, Spunkinmyarse said:

@rawTOP, you’re getting a lot of shit for this.  Much more than I thought you would. 

If you look, nearly all the comments by Senior Members are positive with a few neutral/confused. Then it's maybe 50/50 pro/con with Members. Most of the criticism is coming from New Members and Junior Members.

What that tells me is I've possibly been attracting the wrong type of members recently. Or some of the new members haven't gotten enough infractions yet to help them realize this isn't the place for them. The people who've been with the site for a long time are the type of guys who didn't need these rules - they were respected each other as human beings and wanted to nurture the #bbbh community. But among the newer members there is a fairly high percentage of problem members who don't respect others or care for their community. All I can say to them is that they're more than welcome to leave. And just to streamline things a bit - profile deletion is requested in Settings (it's the only way to have your profile deleted).

[Spunkinmyarse]

I think you’re absolutely right- I too was wondering about that.  I think the focus of the group has shifted in recent times, and some kind of correction is timely.

[BootmanLA]

8 minutes ago, rawTOP said:

If you look, nearly all the comments by Senior Members are positive with a few neutral/confused. Then it's maybe 50/50 pro/con with Members. Most of the criticism is coming from New Members and Junior Members.

What that tells me is I've possibly been attracting the wrong type of members recently. Or some of the new members haven't gotten enough infractions yet to help them realize this isn't the place for them. The people who've been with the site for a long time are the type of guys who didn't need these rules - they were respected each other as human beings and wanted to nurture the #bbbh community. But among the newer members there is a fairly high percentage of problem members who don't respect others or care for their community. All I can say to them is that they're more than welcome to leave. And just to streamline things a bit - profile deletion is requested in Settings (it's the only way to have your profile deleted).

I think in addition to this, a lot of the older members have been here long enough to know they don't have anything to prove and don't feel the need to grab attention or stand out. Many newer members, for good or bad, seem prone to wanting to "one-up" and make things ever closer to an edge they don't even acknowledge exists. 

I see guys with 2 or 4 posts to their name hopping into thread after thread, posting about all the things they want done to them, or to do to others, almost as though they believed anything less than aiming for a 32-top gang bang or nine different STI's within six months is shameful slacking off. Or they'll brag about what a cumdump they are, and in every thread that starts with "Should a bottom..." they're posting away with how every bottom should allow anything whatsoever to be done to them, should allow themselves to be called any name, should allow whatever their honest needs might be to be ignored, all because REAL bottoms need to be treated like crap and anyone who doesn't like that isn't really a bottom, he's a pretender.

It's kinda sad in a way, because I suspect that most of these guys are the real pretenders. I'm not the sort to call out anyone in particular, but when a guy claims he went to the local seedy motel next to a truck stop (in a town of less than a thousand people, ninety miles from the nearest interstate highway, and situated on a two-lane state road that leads basically nowhere) and twelve tops came and barebacked him and three had BBCs at least ten inches long, I'm inclined to be just a tad skeptical. 

[NoFucksGiven]

2 hours ago, Spunkinmyarse said:

@rawTOP, you’re getting a lot of shit for this.  Much more than I thought you would.  For reasons I haven’t the time or inclination to go into right now (I might at a later date), I want you to know that I for one broadly support your move, and I’m sure many other ‘silent’ users of this site do too.

At great personal cost to yourself in terms of both time and effort, you have created a wonderful free space that has been enjoyed by many, many people over the last decade, and you have EVERY right to nudge it in whatever direction you please.

I hope you will not be discouraged in your vision by some of the comments you have received in this thread: keep up the good work!

This times a hundred. 

[NoFucksGiven]

@rawTOP I’m not going to wade into the discussion too much except to say this. When I came across BZ, it was a revelation. I found others shared my passions and I want to thank you for that. I’ve made contact with some great guys on here and met up with a couple. BZ is the site I visit more often than any other. It’s usually the one I look at first every day. Nothing you have decided, or written subsequently since your initial post on this thread, will change that one jot. 

[ScorpionFF]

Opening statement:

What I have written below I have already done so, with great thought and with much time over the past few days. Thus by no means is this a knee jerk reaction. I do wish to point out before we get going is that I am explicitly genuine and sincere with what I have already written in regards to how I understand and see things from my perspective (I have a right to my own thoughts) and in no way am I trying to be difficult. If I receive any belligerent responses to this, then that will just completely cement my vision (rapidly increasing) of leaving here entirely. I deserve courtesy, as we all do. Okay, let's get started: 

"Bug chasing still very much ALLOWED" - I would see that as self harm taking into account the premise behind the rest of the new rules - policies - bans.

"HIV Fetish still very much ALLOWED" - But HIV is permanent! And more importantly, it leads onto "AIDS" (harm to the body). Even left untreated HIV very slowly harms the body, daily. If fetishizing STI's is banned for the reasons given then my logic would see this extended to banning HIV Fetish also. Keeping HIV Fetish could also see those that cannot discern between fantasy and reality ditching their PrEP, (self harm).

"Fantasizing about things often turns into real-life behavior" - Fair enough comment. Again using my logic, surely the Chem Sex Fiction section should be completely removed based on what this fair enough comment actually could indicate, for example; Real life drug taking = Self harm. Indeed, ALL drugs are Liver toxic, there is no exception, not to mention what happens to all the other life sustaining organs. In fact, wouldn't banning "all" expression of fantasy behaviour if it has the potential to become a (self harm behaviour) reality be the way to go? I say this purely because again it makes logical sense.

Personally I view fact vs fiction in a very simple and logical way in that the two are entirely different and separate. However, if there are individuals who take what is clearly fiction quite literally (which I would not have thought on a place like BZ) then yes, I can most definitely see there being issues. I get that. I really do.

On a factual level (way beyond the realms of fiction), there is a particular individual who I have seen talking about their sexual behaviour which leaves me questioning if they are crossing the barrier into actual harmful behaviour towards others. It does seem to be that way. What I sometimes read does not sit very well with me at all; and I am very open minded so for me to say that really does speak volumes.

With the previous paragraph in mind and merely thinking out aloud, wouldn't something as simple as fetishizing RAW/bareback sex encourage others who are currently practising safe sex to take potential life changing risks (self harm.) Having unprotected sex is taking risks and the participant(s) could be seen as ''self harming'', especially if a neg guy KNOWINGLY has sex with a detectable guy with the intention of converting. With this in mind, should even fetishizing RAW/bareback sex be banned? 

On another note, there is another user who I often see in response to others and without provocation be extremely belligerent, and sometimes generalised name calling (show some manners and civility please) whenever someone says something that does not fit his personal intolerant, illiberal and hostile narrative. I have never seen him told to be civil by a moderator, like others are when they are being unsavoury. Being on the receiving end of these unneccessay venomous behavioural traits can make someone feel very low about themselves, and as body and mind are inextricably linked then that would most definitely be a form of harm as I would perceive it. I do have a decent understanding of the Nervous and Endocrine systems; affect the natural equilibrium of these intricate systems and harm to the body WILL be caused!

From a fictitious perspective, I have written a lot of twisted stuff, much of it involving an array of STI's. With the imminent rule changes concerning this I have contacted a moderator, and at my request six of my stories are to be deleted (instead of edited) with immediate effect. I have just made contact to request a seventh to get the chop. To be honest, I now feel exceptionally uncomfortable that they're there knowing of the new rules, policies, and bans in place. I will not rest easy until they have all been completely deleted. Another life lesson learned! 

As a very close friend would say; ''Guard up. Shutters down.'' And that is where I am at now ... Big time!

Conclusion: If banning certain elements on this site that have previously been allowed due to those that cannot discern between fantasy and reality, OR even not being able to read about something that could potentially cause the reader harm later on whether it be unintentional or self inflicted by just forgetting about it and moving on, then that in itself could lend itself to many other elements of this site that have escaped the new rules for which I have covered above. Food for thought. 

Lastly, I have been thinking for the past year or so about deleting my profile in it's entirety. It does cause me distress (harm) when I inadvertently see a certain aforementioned individual be terribly belligerent towards others (this is something I feel extremely strongly about.) It is completely unacceptable to be anything other than civil, and I happen to care deeply for my fellow Man. I have my sub's (online training for now) telephone number so that is all I really need and desire. My precious health (what is left of it) comes above anything and anyone else.

Edit: From this afternoon onwards the feelings of leaving this community which I really don't want to leave are getting too intense to ignore. I no longer feel safe here at all now (it was my one safe space), and now feel completely exposed. Now in the process of tying up loose ends (obtaining contact details, etc). A special thank you to drscorpio who is a right gem; A wonderful man! 

All the best.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, rawTOP said:

Seriously, you're going to trash what I'm doing because of an error rate of 6 out of millions of hookups? SMH…

 

I posted the study to the HIV/Sexual Health sub-forum a few years ago. Poz guys who never progress to AIDS, and are meds compliant actually live slightly longer than neg guys (though with more complications along the way). The theory on why they live longer is that they're seeing their doctor more frequently so problems are caught quickly and dealt with before they become major issues.

 

You've never had free speech on privately owned websites. This has been the case since the web first started. It is not something new.

Your right to free speech only entitles you to start your own website and take on the legal liability for what happens on that website.

 

These are simply things I don't want to be associated with. Things I see as harmful to our community. I believe I have a responsibility to do what I can to mitigate their negative effects.

The other issue is that barebacking and being poz are being equated with inevitable significant disability and death. Our community worked hard to shed that image after ARVs brought an end to the AIDS crisis. It harms the poz community for that image to be perpetuated.

For the most part I've hidden threads. In a few cases I've edited some of the text to make the post compliant. But when someone starts a thread with (paraphrasing) "Isn't isn't death and illness sexy? I wanna get sick and die." - there's just no way to fix a thread that starts like that.

Not trashing it, juat disagreeing with it. I don't agree with acting like HIV isn't an STD just because PrEP is a thing, I don't agree with people changing stuff because "muh community" and I don't agree with people acting like it's the bottom's fault for catching a disease due to not being on PrEP, but it's not their fault for catching any other disease because those ones don't have an equivalent to PrEP that isn't condoms, because condoms are unacceptable. I read your later reply about competition and mainstream poz friendly guys, and that makes perfect sense and is a perfectly valid reason for making these changes. I just think protecting people from themselves isn't.