taku

Go ban me. I am pretty sure lots of people want that too. Sorry to see your lack of acceptance range. I expected more than that from a site talking about anonymous sex and STD collecting. And, probably you don't want to know, I still consider the legal action. Maybe even a civil claim. It may help this jerk suffered and may get him pay my medical fee for PEP; probably partially because I am too nice to ask him to pay all when I admit my own mistake. It was good to talk with you. I am not sarcastic here.

Matias47/ I agree most of thing say here. I sounded dumb in a sense. But it was even before 24 hours of the incidence and it was my first time of this kind of deception. Don't you think it's kind dramatic to find someone's HIV meds right after your fuck? Let me enjoy my drama. I also agree I am hypocrite. But I am aware of it and don't sugarcoat it. I'd happily be an opportunist to screw a jerk who messed with me. " a case of the irresistible douche meeting the immovable scum bag" I kind of like that. I may use that for my wedding card. Thanks for your comment.

You don't need to explain me how to read statistics. I have nothing better to do in my life and missed the chance to drop off my PhD course. No one denies that HAART lower the infection rate significantly. But does that mean having sex with poz bottom is "safe"? I doubt any level-headed scientist answer that without a hesitation. You can also find many papers about the same question on Pudmed or other citation search engines. As you must know, that Swiss cohort study was assumed three things: 1) adherence to the meds, 2) VL has been stabilized and undetectable at least last six months 3) no existence of other STDs. Ok, I found HIV meds in his house. But does that assure any of this? I gave him a chance to explain this before and after sex and he did not give me information. So, I ran to ER yesterday and got PEP. I had to talk with 2 MDs and a nurse there and described what happened. Guess how many of them cited "Swiss Statement" and told me "He was safe" so I did not need the expensive and even aggressive post exposure treatment? None. In clinic, a risk is a risk. If you decide not to bother to ask your partner's status, or to still do with him whatever his VL is, it's your choice. I don't judge. I agree your chance of conversion is statistically low. But I want to gather all possible information before I make my own decision. If he was honest, I should have asked him his VL and discuss. At this point, all I got was his blunt text saying he was undetectable. What ground should I trust him on? It's funny anyone but me in this site seems like knowing him better than I do.

Not that I don't respect you (I do), but you don't sound like a trained scientist. At least not in human related one. That study has been already referenced in many research papers and not all were positive about its soundness. Have you checked pubmed? Scientists are very skeptical people and we barely call something simply safe. You brought the car and street analogy. You are right. We still walk and drive in the streets. Why? Because there are bunch of rules and common courtesy. If there is no rules, the cars must have been banned or people will not walk on the streets. You also got one more thing right. I like Koolaid and have no intentiom to stop drinking it. It is delicious. Also I have no problem with enjoyable sex with or without a condom. I just want to know what I am doing based on all available information and my state happened to project my right by the law.

You need the wood?

I get your point and always knew that. If I heard his status from him, I have probably felt much better. But when someone hides it, it makes you feel like he's hiding more on his back. That's what I feel. If he was open and telling me how well he's taking meds and what his VL is, I would buy that. But he was not.

I admit that that was a problem caused by me. BTW, my tone may be confusing as I am conflicted right now, but I am not blaming him. I want to talk with him and get more information available. The avoidance and defesiveness of POZ guys is understandable but is not always justified. That's my point. Thank you for your comment.

I know the paper and read it even before you posted it here. Not the news paper article. The real article. You must also know that paper was and is still in controversy. In science world, one "Revolutionary" paper does not change the view of the whole field. It barely happens. A bottom on meds is safe? No. The chance that they are not infecting other people is statistically significant, but that does not mean just 'safe'. Scientists' term is different from laymen's and I know that. Also, how do I know he was on meds? That study is based on the patient's adherence to the meds. If he sometimes skip the pills, which happens often in real life, the story turns into a totally different level. To get this information, I need to talk with this guy, but he is refusing to talk. Asking his VL is too much? When he was not very honest with me from the first, how can I trust him to say "I am undetectable" or "My VL is XX copies/mL"? No hard feeling needs to get involved. I can be happy to see the hard copy of his test results without a wincing. Once again, only his right not to reveal is important and not my right to know what I was exposed? I have no problem with "educating myself" part. I know probably more than most people here. Reading hard and cold science papers is my job and I read my portion. However, still it does not change the fact that he led me to wrong conclusion by vague information; in 'common sense,' which you may have forgotten because you spent too much time here (as a site owner), those two questions are considered to be related to your HIV status and I believe I tried my part. Over-reacting? Maybe, probably. However, as you can see, that's because I am not a regular random barebacker and when it happens for the first time, it's a shock to some people. Once again, if he were honest with me from the first, I was ready to be reasonable with him about our sex. I understand his infection probability is significantly low. The problem is the notice came too late. Besides that, I appreciate your effort as a site owner/organizer. Thank you.

curiouspuppy429/ You got me right. I should not put the legal action thing on the title. That was not the point. I myself also am against criminalization of HIV status revelation at large but it's a personal case and my reaction was not 100% rational. I just wanted to remind him how serious it is and bring him back from avoidance. I still have no problem to described what I did in front of full of straight people at a courtroom though. The law still define what he did as a crime and I have no problem to use it if I need to. Scottyrim/ My description was not correct. When I said I "dressed up and ran away" it was figurative. I was shocked but wanted him to be honest. So I stayed there quite a bit (about 10 min) and brought him to the living room in clothes and talked with him about the safety. I was not bold enough to confront him at the spot, but slightly pushed him to speak from his side. He did not. So to say, I don't think I was that rude in that sense. Obviously he did not want to talk about it and was irritated by it (me?) though. NiceHard1/ Thanks for the words. However, I don't agree with you that "Are you safe?" is a derogatory or degrading as "Are you clean?" question. I understand the problem with "clean" thing. But safety is a matter of probability. It's more neutral and objective. Even though the chance is low (I have read most of related papers myself, not the news paper articles), still there is a chance and it is not zero. Also, I understand what you are saying about the test intervals. But in the light of the disclosure law, will he be justified? I made two questions, which are not perfectly clearly but also clearly enough for most people. I am pretty sure I have a case if I push it. I am not ignorant about the issue and understand the irony of the partner's HIV status and BB safety. However, I wanted to make my decision based on the open information. If he is poz, he should let me know what his VL is now, instead avoiding the issue and saying "Leave me alone." I wanted him to be honest as I was. I believe it's a fair game. Maybe naive, but still fair. I believe you are not saying he has a right to avoid this issue and I have nothing but to be "cautious" myself. JamesL100/ If you find me whiny and avoid me, it's totally fine with me. I never pretend to be someone I am not and if he was smart enough, he saw my whininess already through the two meetings (you probably noticed I am not laconic in person over the screen). In this case, he did not care as much as you do and decided to go for it. So in short, this is not your business. Also about the crabs, if I have an enough reason to believe I got it from a specific place, I will ask of course. Not only for me but for other. I once called Hyatt where I stayed for that issue. In the same sense, I don't see no problem to call someone I slept with if he might have crabs in his bed. There is no reason to avoid that kind of "accusation." Not everyone's skin is thin as yours and avoidy about any kind of responsibility. Anyway thank you for your words, and I agree with you about one thing; I wish I don't want to meet people like the guy who deceived me or you who are so sympathetic with him. Let's not.

Don't worry. I am pretty sure I am banned from every bit of his turf already.

Tightslider/ Thank you for your sympathy. AlwaysOpen/ I cannot agree more with every sentence of yours. Also thank you.

Thank you. I appreciate all the bitchslapping here. I deserve it. However, it just happened yesterday and still it did not pass slightly more than 24 hour. To be honest, I did not need to mention this, I actually went to ER this evening and got the first emergency Truvada package. I started less than 20 hours and it will reduce the pre-existing chance to lower. This PEP will cost a lot without an insurance but as you all can see, I am a very anxious and whiny person. I am very sure this will help my mental health in a long term. Anyway, as keeping saying it, I appreciate all the comments. Not that I did not know before what you guys are saying here, but it does not hit me right until I made a mistake. I understand someday I may get converted. I just want to try my best to avoid or delay it as long as I can. Also I only wish that would not be caused by an intentional deception. I should be less naive after this, but can still wish, right?

I also realized that I forgot to mention. Actually, after I asked if he was safe (I know, not specific enough), I also asked him when he got tested. He said 3 months ago. So, it was not like he was just "not stating." He intentionally made me believe he was neg. I am sorry poz guys are dreaded by this reaction. But once again, if he was honest with me from the first, they would not have freaked. Once again, I know this forum. In this case, his presumption underestimated my acceptance level and turned the things into uglier shapes. I am not saying I'm a saint here. I believe I have been rather clear with that through my whines. He actively lied and refused to confront it. If he convinced me that his VL was definitely undetectable, I can also understand the whole thing better and can even sympathize with him. But now this is not cool.

tboyer/ I agree with what you said and know I was naive. I also know it's not an enough excuse. Thanks. JamesL100/ Thank you for wearing his shoes so flawlessly. Probably you are right except a few parts. First, I have no problem to provide my status on any disease in hard copy to my sexual partner. I sometimes do with or without their requests. I simply take a picture of my test results and send to them to see. Sometimes I show them in person and am willing to make a copy in front of them if they want. Also checking one's ref can be rude. Agreed. But when you are in shower at your trick's house, you may check of his medical shelf. It's a presumed by most people who have onenight stand. I happened to know where the meds may exist (I am working in medical center) and checked it. Rude? Yes. But it did not put anyone's health at risk and is not even vaguely defined as a crime in any light. BTW, I did not say anything about a nice meal. You seem empathizing with this guy one step too much. bjbottom/ Thank you. I am quite relaxed at this point. I understand what you said and I knew them before and after this incidence. I got lost for some reason and just did it. It does not happen with me often and it happened to be this guy. I know my chance is very low; probably practically zero. But you may understand when it's not actually zero, it does not feel like zero. At least for a while. Once again, thanks.

Thank you for your answers. All words are appreciated. I needed reality check. I am not avoiding my responsibility. How can I? If I got infected, it will be with me forever. As you can read from my whine, I am not very experienced in this arena. I usually play safe, especially with strangers, but have secretly kept my bareback fantasy; if not, why would I be on this site anyway? I recently got tested and had no STD. Leaving home without a condom is my fault. I admit. I probably should have asked him before we both got naked. He was a charming guy and I probably still wanted to play (or more) with him if he was honest with me. Right now, his avoidance of communication frustrates me and I just wanted to push him a bit even with a little threatening. I have no serious intention to take a legal action (yet) but at least want to hear from him more than "Leave me alone." Anyway, once again, I appreciate all words from you guys.