garsento

There are always going to be people at bathhouses and sex parties that we won't want to click with, for whatever reason. There might be some people whose presence might turn us off. Unless they are doing something in violation of the norms of those venues--if they are actively harassing you or someone else, most notably--I am very wary of the good sense in setting up arbitrary boundaries. Where will you stop?

More broadly, back when I was not monogamously coupled, I do not think that FTMs would necessarily have been out of place in the different parties and scenes I visited. Ther big dividing line relative to them was making the choice to be at the venues, not the sort of positions or activities you would like to do or the sort of genitalia you have. 

I was reading archives.of Alex Cheves' excellent gay sex Q&A blog, Love, Beastly. In one of his posts,

[think before following links] https://lovebeastly.com/2017/03/23/the-straight-truth/

Cheves mentioned something interesting, that he knew "a few straight male subs who get dominated by gay men and get off purely on the experience of submission." It seems that he was distinguishing between these men and men however straight-identified who got off sexually on sex with men.

Is this actually a thing? I have not encountered these straight guys, though I freely admit I might easily have missed them. Is there actually a notable number of straight guys who get off being dominated by non-straight guts?

5 hours ago, Vancityaladdin said:

Stealthing without consent should never be done. 

Sucks that the courts aren't repealing the popper Ban despite UBCs paper tying that ban directly to the increase in substance use to fill the void of Poppers 👀

It'd be nice to order jungle juice when it's made in BC

Agreed. I am in Ontario, and frankly, the idea that poppers are banned when there are cannabis shops on every corner strikes me as ridiculous. Why not just regulate the quality of poppers as cannabis is regulated?

On 1/22/2023 at 10:45 PM, ErosWired said:

The questioner may no longer be on the site, but it’s an important question, particularly with a Collins. I never close mine entirely when I’m ready to remove it, but instead place a finger between arms of the hinge so that there’s something to block complete closure. Complete closure usually results in pinched flesh, and steel is unyielding.

The thing about a Collins is that the blades don’t open parallel to one another, they splay outward inside you kind of like a Pear of Anguish. At full spread, removal is likely impossible for all but very accomplished hole stretchers (for whom the speculum would be of little use anyway), so at least some degree of closure is necessary. I’ve gotten so that I can now pull mine out half-open or so, but best practice really is to retract it nearly fully closed. The same is true for most any kind of speculum, as all of them press metal to metal on full closure.

I am still here!

I have continued to play with the speculum with my partner. We did have a unpleasant incident when, after fucking me hard and loading me with the speculum in, there was a bit of blood. No lasting harm, but it hasade us more careful.

20 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

Short answer is that there's probably no good data on this, because it would be unethical to conduct the kind of experiment necessary to answer the question.

Longer answer:

Conventional studies show a very, very low risk of contracting HIV if you're on PrEP (what they call "breakthrough" cases). But to adequately answer what you're asking, they would have to have bottoms on PrEP take loads from high viral load tops. You'd also have to stagger the exposures, so that some bottoms would only get bred once, some would get several loads at one time, some would get multiple loads over a longer period of time, and so forth, in order to see whether there was a "breaking point" and whether it was something reached by cumulative exposure alone (like getting it daily for a few weeks) or reached by overwhelming the system (by taking multiple loads from different men in a single session).

Strictly speaking, they'd also have to be sure that the bottom wasn't exposed to other men beyond what was documented, and that there was no IV drug use, for instance, that might change the results. 

But the fact that the number of known PrEP failures that can't be attributed to poor adherence to the prescribed regimen is very, very low, a logical inference would be that it works pretty darned well even against HVL semen. "Pretty darned well," of course, isn't perfect. 

The instances of PrEP failures I have heard of, like the 2015 failure in Toronto, suggest mostly that the issue at hand was not the viral load but rather mutations in the virus that let it evade Truvada. A HVL should.not matter so much as the virus is not Truvada-resistant.

8 hours ago, austin_submale said:

I'm also married and can't get on PrEP because I have to be discreet.  But I go bare anyway.

How discreet could you be if you end up contracting HIV, or even a less serious disease?

In my particular case, I could do what I wanted because I was constrained only by my own judgements. I only had sex with my then-boyfriend when he was protected by PrEP, and made sure of that. If he had not been, well, things would have gone differently.

I recognize that you are in a difficult position. I think the minimally ethical thing to do, with your partner who has no knowledge that she needs to protect herself, is to at least protect yourself so you will not expose her to anything.

7 hours ago, bbdadslut said:

At first I thought it was laziness and avoidance.  I topped some guys and was hooked on the experience and now I want to take loads. As I've continued thinking about all of this, I realize the truth is that I'm not seeking out PrEP because I'm a bit of a passive chaser.  I don't intend on having HVL partners, but I won't know for sure since I'm open to playing with u=u guys and neg guys all the same.  I've opened up a bit to the fact that I'm turned on by the risk, piggy play, poz talk, and eventual conversion as I continue to ease into this path. 

One of the big reasons chasing did not appeal to me is that none of my HIV-positive sex partners seem to want to have had it. Even if they had not experienced life-threatening health complications or suffered mass deaths among their friends and other loved ones, HIV was a major complication in their lives that limited their options. They would opt for a cure if they could, but they cannot because it is incurable if you don't go through anything radical and functionally impossible like chemo and a bone marrow transplant.

Another reason for me is that, honestly, HIV chasing seems like a dead end. The work that one might undertake to take a fist, say, is enjoyable in and of itself, and once you start taking fists you can continue to progress. You can also stop getting fisted and be fine. Once you get HIV, in contrast, that's it. You will just be left with something that you cannot change your mind about.

(I suppose it is possible that one might be fine with that, especially if you get on treatment early and do fine, but it seems unnecessary. Why not just get on PrEP, or do something effective, to avoid the complication of a lifetime medical condition?)

6 hours ago, Negasswhore said:

I completely agree with you, I´m not chasing hiv either...well not right now anyway. I did also since a couple of years ago come to the conclusion that if I only get fucked and bred by medicated Top´s then that is the safest thing I can do to protect myself without going on Prep, but I have been thinking more and more about going on it just as there will be such a broader selection of guys I can then also get fucked by, that I don´t do at the moment.  The other STIs you won´t get away from anyway, well not going bare at least. Hpv and Herpes you can get just by skin contact so those are easy to catch no matter if your shielded or not.

Some people here have talked about a certain amount of creep that can occur once you start barebacking with individual people. I think that there might actually be something to that. If you make exceptions for one person or one set of persons, no matter how well-founded and justifiable the reasons you have for setting the exception you have established that you can make exceptions. Once you make one then, in principle, why not make others? You can substitute good judgement for a hard-and-fast rule, but you would still have introduced your judgement in place of an unbreakable rule.

I was taking risks. I think that these risks were justifiable, and I am glad that I took most of them. One of the guys who liked my previous post is one of my first exceptions, actually, a complete top who fucked me bare repeatedly even though he was neither undetectable or on PrEP; he was trustworthy, the sex was fantastic, and I wish only that I had taken more cum loads and some piss loads from him. (Hi!) My decision back in 2018, as he was rimming me at a local sex party and rubbing his dick up and down my crack, to take hold of his big dick and rub its head against my hole by way of invitation, is a decision I am happy with. I would say that this is the case for most of the different exceptions that I made, like the two guys on two different occasions who fucked bare and hard with their piercings in, say, or the undetectable daddy type who gave me my first load in his sling, or the west-end couple I played with regularly, or ...

Learning to be able to approach sex with some merited flexibility, to recognize how safer sex is not just sex with condoms, was very good for me. It worked out well for me, and I think it was bound to: Undetectability is real, as is the effectiveness of PrEP, and approaching sex without drugs and with active communication is key not just to safety but enjoyment.

Beyond that, the barebacking scenes re: HIV transmission in Toronto and cities like it really are very different now, with so many people either being undetectable hence untransmissible or else being on PrEPsters and obviously not being able to transmit. This might especially be the case in the clutch of avant-garde sex parties I regularly attended and the networks associated with said, where knowing and talking about status was normal. These days, I think you can make a case that someone who does not use condoms and is not on PrEP could indeed be safe from HIV infection if they know their partners and their statuses.

Even so, there is that slippage factor. I am reminded particularly of someone I met at a party, someone I did not know, who I encouraged to blow a load in me at the end of the night because he said he was on PrEP. Once you get used to making judgements, you can easily keep in making judgements even past a reasonable point. (That occurred at the same time as that load from the guy who said he was negative, FYI.)

Taking all that into consideration, getting on PrEP was clearly wise. If my judgements were becoming more problematic over time, especially in a period of time when because of COVID-19 I had relatively few contacts, what would happen when the world opened back up? That is why I got my test and quickly thereafter got on PrEP: I needed to be prepared for the new wide open sexual world, if I was to be ready.

It worked, really well. If before PrEP I was reasonably confident about my status and my security, after PrEP I was completely convinced. It was good weird, walking back after my first Naked Night on PrEP after having taken a half-dozen guys without bothering to ask about status, to know that I was safer than ever. I was able to do all sorts of things on it—taking random dicks with spit lube at Steamworks, trying to hook up with randoms on Grindr and succeeding (it really is a mess), have all sorts of moderately sketchy hookups, do some THC edibles and then play at parties, et cetera. My previous patterns of play had left me feeling fine, but playing with PrEP actually felt healing. I could stop caring about HIV risks completely, for the first time in my life, and I felt free.

I am not on PrEP now. I am still in the monogamous relationship I mentioned in a separate post, and signs are good. I discontinued PrEP at my latest quarterly because they agreed that there was no need for it. I remain very happy that I was on it—the great sex aside, I met my current partner only because I was on that tear. The only thing I would change, I think, would maybe be getting on PrEP, but that is something I would not change because I am afraid that without my particular trajectory I never would have met him.

My advice to others would be that, while being legitimately careful and playing with the right people does work, that there is a judgement creep there that can eventually expose you to danger. That strategy works only so much,.and getting on PrEP is even better. Getting on PrEP from the start is what I would recommend to anyone right now if they can possibly swing it.

My rationale was that, if I was playing with people I knew who were consistently undetectable, I did not need to be on PrEP. This remains a strong rationale.

What happened is that there was a certain amount of creep, with my beginning to actively seek out first other undetectable guys and then PrEPsters. The rationale held, but the circle of trust had broadened.

The big thing began when I had begun to take loads from negative tops, not undetectable or PrEPsters but people who presented themselves as negative. I did this rarely, at first, with select individuals. In 2021, I stepped things up on that regard, going bare with a regular fwb who was negative.

The thing that pushed me onto PrEP was an experience I had at a local bathhouse. I met one long-standing fwb who was playing with another PrEP user, this guy giving me his load. This turned me on a lot, and I found myself connecting with another guy I met just then, letting him into bare when he said he was on PrEP. I met a third guy in the maze, who said he was not on PrEP but was negative; I surrendered to the moment and took note of what I did after he pulled out and I felt his load leaking.

I was not chasing; I did not want to get HIV. On closer consideration, I think I was starting to get off on not so much the risk as my confidence in my ability to navigate complex scenarios, to keep track of people and things and acts. With my selection of a random guy to load me, I was no longer doing that.

After that last guy, I stopped sex entirely, having only a bit of sex with my then-partner when he got back on PrEP after the lockdowns. (There was not much sex; we were drifting apart.)

I went in for my tests February of last year,.of course. When all came out clear, I went on to get on PrEP as quickly as I could.

2 hours ago, gaypigbb said:

I agree! There is something extra slutty taking a PA cock! It feels great, especially when the metal slips inside! And if the cock itself isn't too huge the feeling of a meaty cock plus moving metal parts inside my hole is amazing!!

I would note that I have had different experiences.

In May, I got fucked by a.gut with a frenum piercing. More important than that was the fact that he had a big thick dick, that he was hot, and that I was a bit high on marijuana edibles and really happy to be in PrEP. ("Welcome to PrEP," he said as he fucked me hard.)

Before that, in February I got fucked by a guy at a sex party with a nice-sized dick and a PA. I made an exception to my rules and let him fuck me bare even though I did not know him; he said he was on PrEP and, to be fair, his BBRT ad was consistent with his claim. (To be even more fair, that was about as far as I felt safe in making exceptions before I got on PrEP.) He fucked me nicely in a couple of positions and I almost wish I let him cum in me, but against this I was too sore to have anyone else fuck me for a bit over a week.

Before that, in November of last year at another sex party I finally got fucked bare by someone who I had been circling around for a while, with a long dick that had a frenum piercing. The fuck was great, but two times he pulled out completely there was a small drop of my blood at the end of his dick. No damage and the subbiness I felt I had never felt before, but I think that was risky.

My takeaway? It was a fun variation, but something that can be a bit hard on my ass. I think I would probably have problems taking a pierced dick regularly.

I have been fucked by a half-dozen guys with penis piercings, either frenum piercings or Prince Alberts. The experiences have been fun—there can be something deeply slutty about bottoming for these guys—but sometimes they have left me sore. The experiences were fun, but they are not essential for me.

What is happening with Joe?

Great stuff!

Just a few minutes ago, I saw a dear friend who tested positive in 1985. He has definitely had health issues, to the point where side effects of the medications have created significant health problems. He is, however, obviously alive.

I also have a friend, one I have not seen for a while, who thought he became positive much closer to 1980. He is still alive, happily retired.

Very hot story.

It is worth noting that this discussion was started back in 2010, at a time when PrEP was just starting to be discussed and consciousness of low or undetectable viral loads relating to a significantly decreased risk of HIV transmission was dim.

For us now in 2022, barebackers, asking tops to pull out before they cum really does not make sense, at least from the perspective of HIV transmission. As long as one person or the other is either on PrEP or undetectable, there is no risk. You just—"just"—have the normal STDs to worry about.

Back in 2010, the withdrawal technique was much more real. It was still deeply imperfect relative to condom usage, to be sure, with significant risks of HIV transmission connecting to just precum, but it was better than nothing. Back at that time, of course, I was not barebacking at all, having topped a boyfriend only once and not really being able to enjoy it and having been stealthed once (happily, the top was not in for long).

In that time frame, with the resources available to me, if I had decided to take the risk of barebacking I would have expected my top to have pulled out before cumming. More, I would have had a right to expect him to do so; if he wanted someone he could cum in, he would always have been free to find another bottom.

I would be willing to have sex with a guy using a condom, in theory. In practice, I have not had caused to insist on one since I started PrEP.

Frankly, right now the question is academic: I am in a happily monogamous relationship with a great guy and have no obvious reason to want to introduce condoms.

It is only polite to make sure that your partner is getting from a sexual encounter what they want to get.

Is asking a top not to cum inside really any different from asking a top not to fuck in a way that makes the bottom uncomfortable?

I would also note that there are plenty of places cum could end up at the end of a fuck, outside of an ass, that would be hot. Imagine, say, pulling out of a guy's ass where boy to start fucking his throat and loading him that way.

(Full confession: I am a guy who loves being loaded, who is in fact trying to hold onto his boyfriend's load from earlier this morning as he types.)

13 minutes ago, ErosWired said:

Of course you would be into monogamy with this perfect-guy-for-you-who-fucks-you-daily. If everyone had a man like that, we would all be monogamous. One-stop shopping is very convenient. But would you have the same feeling toward him if he had a 5-inch cock? If his hands were too huge for your ass to take? If he squicked at the idea of piss play? You’re extolling the virtues of monogamy as a way of exploring with someone you love, but what you tell us about this person isn’t that you love him, but that you have a great connection because he cares about you and the sex is great.

Monogamy succeeds when there is parity in the relationship, when each gives as much as he gets, and all needs are met. It’s not an easy balance to maintain. That’s why it’s often referred to as “commitment” - it can be a lot like work. He may be meeting your needs; are you meeting his in equal measure? Are you going to be able to continue doing so? It sounds like he has great attributes; do you bring something of equal value to the relationship?

Perhaps you do. Perhaps you have just the qualities he needs in a perfect partner, just as you are. If so, congratulations - you won the lottery. Most people don’t. Monogamy for most people, in the end, means commitment, compromise, and ultimately choosing to be content with what they have instead of what they might be able to get. For those of us who had the contentment of monogamy and now know the pain of its loss, it can be a little bit of a harder sell.

Agreed entirely, FWIW. Constant attention is needed.

I think that the key thing is that, whatever you opt for, you be honest and communicating with your partner about your needs and theirs, and to take responsibility for your actions. There are people who post here, talking about how they can't stop themselves from taking loads and lying to their partner, and I don't believe them. Unless they are being forced to have sex, of course they are making the choice to have sex with other people and to betray their partner's trust. They just want to escape their responsibilities.

I would note that I do not see how being monogamous necessarily requires cutting oneself off from friends or from the link community. Lots of what we do is pretty non-vanilla (not, I would note, that our vanilla sex is not great). Being watched is something that I think we both like. 😉 It just requires clear boundaries and active discussions.

Maybe things will change for us. I don't know. I can say that the idea of me having sex with another person, or him, or even us after sufficient talking, is something that makes me sad. Why would I do anything that did that?

This summer has been a bit of a surprise for me in a few ways. I had not expected that I would end up leaning into a new monogamous relationship, when I met my future partner mid-July on BBRT; I had only hoped for good sex. Instead, I would fantastic sex and an amazing connection, something that survived a trip away and that grew only stronger on my return.

Monogamy feels right for us. For me, at least, I do not regret my past; I had fun, I have had a lot of fun recently in the past few, including some uninhibited sex in my first months on PrEP. I am glad I have, not least since that was what put me on the track to meeting my partner. I think my partner is of the same opinion.

That was then, though. Right now I have him, and that is more than enough. Regular sex with a hugely hung and skilled vers top who cares about me is all I want and need. We can do anything together, and we are on track to do more. Our water sports together are fun, and his big dick/small hand bodes well for fisting, for instance.

Monogamy as socially imposed is a bad idea. Monogamy as a choice willingly entered into, as a way to continue exploring someone you love, can be a good idea. We know we who are, what we have done, and what we want to do together, and that is more than enough for us.

What about other people here? What are your experiences?

I just got fucked by my partner this morning before I went out to work. We had to take a bit of a sabbatical (first I found out that getting fucked mostly dry by a superb guy with more than eight inches repeatedly for a month and a half was not the best idea, then he has been sick) and I was afraid that our connection might have been lost. I should not have been. He felt amazing, loading me up with a week's worth of cum.

I have had an increased capacity for sluttiness as I have grown older, becoming more experienced and more comfortable. I would note this is only capacity: I think I have entered into a monogamous relationship, much to my surprise, and I think I am happy with the idea.

YMMV.

I found myself in a fantastic monogamous relationship at the start of August, so I have not been engaging. My sense is that the number of sex parties has been dropping in Toronto, though I have no idea what sez is actually going on.

Hot.

You need to be very clear with your wife, and with yourself. Getting on PrEP is an excellent idea.

I know two people in Toronto who came down with monkeypox. Even if I was not in a monogamous relationship, I would definitely be avoiding the group scenes.