NEDenver

3 hours ago, alphatop32 said:

🤣🤣🤣🤣

and the other career grifter Don Lemon … who is so anti white… but takes a white cock up his fuck chute every night … 

You’re in some fantasy world.  Don Lemon is not anti white.

15 hours ago, BlackDude said:

He has no sway. Those numbers are going down, and will only decrease as the boomers die out. He cannot galvanize people to the polls anymore.

He just needs a TikTok account.  

5 hours ago, ktopper said:

What's that term used by psychologists for folks who project their own behaviors and shortcomings onto others  in order to avoid dealing with their own deficiencies? Ah, that's it, PROJECTION!

Yes, you’re projecting.  A therapist could help you.  A media literacy course could help you, also.  

3 hours ago, ktopper said:

And all you have is calling me a racist. Really?

You’re awfully sensitive.  Maybe it’s guilt.  Have you tried therapy?

20 minutes ago, ktopper said:

What Democrats did for Kamala's campaign budget they would have done for America.

That makes no sense.  You’re arguing for fascist corporatism and all of the harm.  And all you have is black lady bad?

9 hours ago, nanana said:

PS - I include both business owners AND laborers in the category of producers. 
 

And - we don’t have capitalism in this country, we have fascist corporatism, where the government provides some guarantees for certain businesses, e.g., military industrial complex, regulated industries, big pharma, etc. 

Well, congratulations.  You’re strengthening the fascist corporatism.  You’re getting exactly what you and millions of others want.  If you don’t want that, your literal only hope are Democrats.

5 hours ago, ktopper said:

No! Increases in wages follow inflation. They are an adjustment in response to inflation.

But then I suspect you already knew that. 😉

Not necessarily, but there needs to be government intervention.  

C-suite wages rise all the time faster than inflation.

9 hours ago, nanana said:

An assertion not borne out by the data. Certainly people will have noticed that gas prices fluctuate. The price of a TV, a microwave, a transistor, and other goods that benefit from innovation and productivity-of-learning-and-repetition gains fall in price. Houses rise and fall in price. The Fed invents imaginary money for its friends and thus makes the dollar worth less. Limitations in supply or changed in demand also affect the rise or fall of prices. Disincentivizing producers is a GUARANTEED method of creating scarcity and driving up prices. Lower-than-market-rate interest rates is another time-tested guarantee that people will be fooled into overpaying for things. Ultimately money is a mechanism for ensuring that producers wish to continue to produce.  Anyone who thinks producers should be forced to produce without reaching an agreement with a consumer is  an advocate of slavery. 

Thanks for the tedium.  My statement is still true when considering item to item. A Big Mac is only going down if the person at McDonald’s with final price approval decides they’ll make more profit by lowering it.

How propaganda works.  

4 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

Again, getting inflation under control is not the same thing as lowering prices. I don't know why that's so hard for people to grasp, but here we are.

I'm not arguing that (some) people are not feeling an economic pinch (though blame for that pinch is, as usual, woefully mis-targeted. I'm pointing out the fact (not arguing) that the problem is not the one people are naming. We could reduce inflation to ZERO and yet beef would be the same price it is today.

To help a bit because it’s not immediate, when we had that spike in gas prices under W, all of the other things we buy that required transportation also went up.  After the price of gas went back down, the prices of meat, eggs, milk, and cereal did not go back down.  
 

Once the “market”* perceives that people will pay a higher price for something and profits go up, then that becomes the new more correct price.  People don’t really understand capitalism.  Adam Smith was warning that the only entity that could restrain the worst impulses of capitalism was the state.  Dickens did a lifetime of work explaining to people that the misery around them everyday was the result of those excesses.  And a bunch of working class people in the US just voted for a more Dickensian union.

For the pseudo intellectuals and anti intellectuals out there, that’s you, too.  Your prices will never go down.  There’s too much transfer of wealth from our hands to a small number of billionaires’ hands, and Trump was selected to ensure this continues.  Harris had a couple ideas to try to force the “market” prices back down, but y’all chose the higher prices.  
 

*The “market” doesn’t “set” prices.  People do.  Someone at McDonald’s decides how much a Quarter Pounder costs.  Someone at Kellogg’s decides how much Frosted Flakes will cost.  The prices don’t need to go up, even with input changes.  That’s all a decision to be made by people, not some invisible nonexistent hand.  Like, insulin prices haven’t needed to skyrocket, same for EpiPens.  Those prices went up because some shitty people decided they could make more profit.  Finally under Biden, some of those drug prices were brought down, because, again, Adam Smith told us only the State could restrain capitalism, but that’s also going away.  Leopards are going to feast on a bunch of Republican diabetics’ faces.  And also innocent people, some of them children with type 1 diabetes will die.  Hope the Trumpers are happy because y’all are going to have done that, too.  I’ll only grieve one group.

15 minutes ago, viking8x6 said:

Please note that the verb tenses here don't match!

Yes, it was painful. And it still is painful, because prices are still that much higher than they were pre-pandemic.

But it is under control; the rate of inflation of the US CPI over the last year was well under 3 percent.

The good news is that wage growth is now substantially higher than that 3 percent, so if that can be maintained (and there is no reason to think it can't) people in the working class will be able to afford things again in a year or three. Whether or not they'll perceive their situation as acceptable after that is another question.

It won’t be sustained by design.  It was only that high because Biden has been the most worker friendly President in 50 years.  That experiment is over.  Trump is against any labor protection and advocates for breaking unions, as does his boytoy Elon.  Without labor organization, wage growth will go way down.  Last time, Trump left the NLRB unstaffed and nonfunctional.  We’d be very lucky this time for mere neglect.  Republicans control everything, and they’ve been trying to get rid of labor power altogether since Reagan.

Leopards are going to feast.  Hell, Leopards are already feasting as companies prepare for the tariffs Trump voters want, and workers are losing jobs or money.  The rest of us should be expecting drastically higher prices as Trumpflation kicks off.

4 hours ago, nanana said:

For me there is a pretty clear distinction between presenting a government view of something versus the government trying to get another point of view shut down and disappeared. In the first scenario people get to compare the sense of both statements. In the other scenario there’s only one statement to consider. There’s extensive evidence the Biden administration pressured social media to disappear information. In my view, as much as “objective fact” might exist, I don’t see any authority with the purity of motive to be entrusted to adjudicate it, certainly not on my behalf.  I have a lot less trust than you do that organizations actually stop doing things, I think they usually figure out how to morph them. I think we may agree that there is a tendency to focus on past injustices while ignoring current, as-yet-unnoticed injustices. I think we may agree that it’s  always a good time to hold politicians accountable for good governance. Trump specifically has said he would dismantle the government’s ability to manipulate social media into banning people and suppressing their speech. I don’t think it would preclude the government from promoting anti-smoking messages. But what do I know? I am going to continue being skeptical of what any politician says and believe actions and efforts to be transparent. 

Nanana is upset at attempts to remove misinformation and disinformation because without those, there’s no way for a right winger to maintain a semi-coherent world view.

Add also, the Fifth Circuit is notoriously cray-cray.  But also, SCOTUS is not particularly rational.  Especially now.

28 minutes ago, PozBearWI said:

OK, Trump won.  Truly sad that the majority didn’t see through his orange veneer.  The man whined himself into the White House and the majority bought it.  Kudos to him for being an effective snake oil sales man.  He isn’t the first and he won’t be the last.

We can of course just choose to give up and take it.  And to some extent we’ve little choice on the taking it part.  Bad stuff is going to happen.  What specifically?  Honest we won’t know until we know.  We’re aware a host of unhappy outcomes will occur.  But do we now just give up and say fuck it?  I hope not....  

It is about time for the economy to shift as it has been on an upward trajectory for a long time, starting with the Obama years.  The expected recession hasn’t happened.  Yet. 

Putting anti vaxxers in charge of healthcare is going to lead to a predictable problem.  One that might make the last pandemic appear weak and rivaling the Black Plague in scope.  How will the MAGA faithful respond to that?

If the economy tanks for the majority, as I think it will, all this is going to change “bigly”.  And rapidly.  The MAGA faithful are a violent bunch and once they realize how they just screwed themselves.  The results of that will be, um, interesting. 

If the orange jesus follows through on his threats and we see comics and politicians thrown in prison, will we cheer him on or rebel? 

If Health coverage is suddenly gone for most, how long will the survivors take it before they rebel?

Locally there have been a shit ton of signs reading “Don’t stop Praying”.  In my head I always append “on your neighbor” to those signs when I read them.  But that shit only goes so far before we have open rebellion, which might be in our future.  

We are entering and “interesting” era….  

 

I’m not protesting in the streets.  That freedom we know is lost.  We had our chance to save the fools and they insisted on not being saved.  I’m moving to solidifying the escape plans.  I expect we’ll lose marriage federally in the first couple months, but they’ll probably be tied up with deporting millions of people for the first year or two.  Probably have that long before we’re all codified as felons.  Maybe faster if SCOTUS hears anything that lets them overturn Lawrence.  But in a couple years, I’m thinking Mexico or Costa Rica look nice.

5 hours ago, hntnhole said:

I wish it were that easy here in the US ..... here, we have to maintain a verrrrry slim majority in the Senate, get the boy blunder sidelined in the House for a little while, all kinds of maneuvering just to get something like "common sense" gun legislation to the President's desk for his/her(!) signature.  

We used to have rational gun restrictions.  The radicals on the SCOTUS ended that in the 90s after what, two centuries of restrictions.  At least they’re still allowing restrictions on bombs, artillery, nukes, missiles.  Not that any of that could rationally be blocked if you really believed the originalist bull.  Instead it’s just about manipulating the rubes.  
 

I understand I’m less patient with the stupid and evil party than others.  It’s just because I grew up with these people.  Some of them wanted to disinvite me from my grandmother’s memorial, and some refused to bring children because the gay cousin might corrupt them.  Largely, they’re useless sacks of racist crap who are upset they can’t drop the n word (or other ethnic slurs) in public conversation.  The worst buy into white nationalism.  The best are merely propagandized by horseshit right wing media and don’t have the brain and willpower to reason past the propaganda techniques.  They say dumb things like, “The lamestream media just lies about Him.”  It’s sad how we have to keep trying to save them for the dystopia they’re rushing us toward while imagining that when Medicare goes away it won’t mean for them.  But here we are, and the saddest LCRs keep pretending they won’t be cut off like the rest of us.

3/4 of states need to ratify.  

6 hours ago, nanana said:

There is a lot of self-flavor in the style of your question NEDenver. It’s open to interpretation. I apprecIate the leftie boys for honoring the request 🙂.  

As long as you appreciate how pathetic and hypocritical conservatives always are.  It’s like bad fantasy fanfic over there.

15 hours ago, nanana said:

This is hardly the best advertisement I’ve heard for the government. You’re in effect writing, “Self-defense failed to work against the government, which abused them anyway.” 
 

not that any of us are slaves to the American Declaration of Independence it’s still worth quoting: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creatorwith certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.—That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,—That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.“

In your example I think most people would voluntarily sign up to avoid the confusion. However, many use “unworkability” as a premise to usurp the freedoms of others, which is an error.  

Hey, nanana, how’s your little Safe Space thread going?  Just want to point out how weak you must be to need a thread where you ask the liberals to stay out while the weak minded conservatives are protected from reality.

I bet you think you’re one of the evil conservatives, but pretty sure you’re not.

1 hour ago, ffoz said:

The world is watching. The USA & the world DO NOT need TRUMP.

(from Australia)

I think it’s easier to see on the outside.  You can see people here, and the bulk of my family who all hear the bad stuff and figure they don’t want that so surely the Republicans won’t, say cut my brother’s military retirement and disability benefits (they will), won’t really make poor children work in factories (they already do), won’t punish gay and trans people for existing (they are in some places and want that everywhere), won’t destroy the air and water supplies (they’ve been working on it for decades).  They identify as Republicans, and they’re good, so surely the Republicans in office won’t make their lives worse.  
And they’re going to drag the rest of us to Hell with them.

4 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

Correct. There's still some legal debate as to what a "natural born citizen" is (does it mean citizen from birth, as most experts believe, or does it mean citizen born on US soil?). But Musk fits neither definition.

Separately, I don't think Musk wants to be president, at least not of this country. It's too much like real work. 

Originalism would say it means, “Don’t be Alexander Hamilton.”

52 minutes ago, BBArchangel said:

A lot of people think that the muscovite is jockeying for the tax breaks. Me, I think he has something else in mind much bigger. I think he’s laying the groundwork for an eventual presidential run himself with a side step in a high-powered position in the convicted felon’s administration.

Except he’s definitely not eligible because of the South African thing.

1 minute ago, cuckie said:

Old republicans are, they're also all about not doing anything at all. Republicans don't really plan the way you seem to think, the DNC and CDP sure do and they cycle through idiot volunteers before they OD unlike the GOP. 

 

I don't care about your insults, you clearly live on the internet and are ignorant of reality. Shame you can vote. 

Enjoy your time in the camps!

Just now, cuckie said:

Um... That's conjecture. 

What's the problem with restrictions on medical insurance? Nobody should be paying for obese diabetics to get drugs and pacemakers, they should be allowed to eat themselves to death without burdening other's with the pitfalls of their poor choices and existence. 

That’s fact.  The Republican plans are published.  
 

You seem ready to pitch “obese diabetics”, and I suppose you’d argue everyone with HIV, spina bifida, cerebral palsy, Crohn’s, everything else should just die and not burden society, which firmly places you in the literal Nazi camp.

2 minutes ago, cuckie said:

Government has no place in morality. 

Most of her anti-gun shit is unconstitutional emotionally charged bullshit, easily circumvented by manufacturing and engineering - look at CA gun owners as an example. 

Generational wealth is something that is built, if you can't figure it out or do it  you flounder. Survival of the fittest and all. 

Tariffs encourage domestic manufacturing and the cessation of purchasing useless shit like rubber dog shit and 90% of what people buy on amazon.com. Tariffs are far more than an "added sales tax". Intelligent consumers demand products and don't compromise. Not everyone's a sellout. 

Why don't you just move to Canada? 

Republicans are all about morality in government, though.  Their plan is to make pornography illegal and then define your existence as pornography.  So enjoy your felonies.

Also, thanks for the most naive explanation of tariffs ever barfed into the ether.  You, sir, are surely a well into the “not evil” camp of conservatives.

13 hours ago, cuckie said:

Which proposals?

An EPA that exists.  A Department of Education that exists.  Lina Khan riding herd at the FTC.  Unions getting stronger.  Social mobility.  Protestors not being shot by the military.  Working and middle class children not forced to work in factories and slaughterhouses.  Feeding children, even when they’re not in school.  Caring for children after they’re born.  Not making every person at this website a felon because “pornography”.  Not going back to pre-existing conditions and lifetime caps on health insurance.  
 

There’s more, but start there.

2 hours ago, hntnhole said:

Here, there are parking lots all over the place where (temporary) voting stations have been set up.  

There's a woman named Debby Muscatel Powell running for (p)Rick Scott's seat.  I doubt it will happen, but by all that's unholy, I'd love to see that one hit the bricks.

This is probably wishful thinking, but is that a whiff of PURPLE I smell in the air ????   

It’s amazing that Medicare fraudster Rick Scott who committed the largest Medicare fraud at the time got elected Senator.  Now he’s the architect of the bill dismantling Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and he still somehow has a chance to get elected again.  
 

Good luck, Florida!