Has anyone(you or anyone you know of) ever been pozzed/converted by an UD partner?

[Guest PozGoat]

Has anyone been pozzed by an undetectable partner who is on meds?

I ask because my own theory and the theory of many is that UD makes it nearly impossible to transmit.

We really don't know that for sure, but it sure seems to be the case. UD makes it very difficult or impossible to tranmit.

I'll stick with that theory until I actually see evidence of a person testing poz, knowingly for 100% sure that they were pozzed by a certain individual and that individual is poz, on meds, and undetectable.

I can't think of a better place to ask. I'm poz and med-free. My immune system is beating HIV. MY recent VL was 66. CD4 1679. I am a vegan eater. I still view myself as capable of converting a neg but unlikely due to my low, almost UD VL. I have another labs due this month so I'll have fresh lab#'s to post here soon. It's possible that this labs will come back as UD. I had syphilis about 8 months ago that caused my HIV to shoot up to 1100 VL. So the virus is present in me, but if I stay healthy and disease free, I likely can go UD.

What fun is that?

Tonight, I'll likely be spreading my cheeks in a gloryhole booth at Steamworks in Chi(I live in the neighborhood, Boyztown) or laying in the community sling in the dungeon area, taking a train fuck of raw Chicago muscle studs.

That's how I stay disease-free where I roll! OINK!

I live to defile my healthy immune system.

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

Up until I started PrEP I typically bottomed for UD guys. Obviously I never converted. I will be curious to here of anyone that did...

[Guest PozGoat]

Up until I started PrEP I typically bottomed for UD guys. Obviously I never converted. I will be curious to here of anyone that did...

I BB'ed for about 20 years until I converted sometime around late 2007. I tested pretty regularly too, over that period of time. So I'm able to narrow it down.

It's been pretty quiet in this thread so far. Which feeds even more into the theory that UD guys likely can't transmit as long as they stay UD.

[NYCBearpig]

This is a good reference site. He explains a lot about what UD means.

http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/SafeSex/Q206070.html

[Blankspace]

You can still transmit, though if someone is on PrEP that further reduces the risk, but even then you still are rolling the dice a little.

[truman956]

There was a scientific study released this month out of Australia that proves undetectable hiv positive men cannot spread the virus. they followed 200 gay couples where one partner was positive and one was negative for two years and none of the positive undetectable partners passed on the virus. the virus was only passed on where viral loads were high and detectable. this is big news. it points to the fact that if you are poz and on meds (taking care of yourself) you're not passing on the virus.

Here is the study:

http://www.kirby.unsw.edu.au/news/positive-news-hiv-treatment-prevention

[Poz1956]

There was a scientific study released this month out of Australia that proves undetectable hiv positive men cannot spread the virus.

There is a ongoing study of serodivergent couples in Australia, called Opposites Attract. (We sometimes get cute and call those +/- parnterships a Magnetic couple.) Similar to the Partner study, those couples are are also barebacking. The results are expect to be publish 2017. The unique feature of that one is they are looking at seminal fluid viral load in the undetectable Possies.

The piece you linked to is in a University of New South Wales newsletter. UNSW is running the Opposites Attract study, so that may have been where the confusion came in. They're working on some other pretty interesting projects about people with HIV as well.

The piece you linked to is discussing the interim report on the European based Partner study, that was presented at CROI 2014. (Conference on Retrovirus and Opportunistic Infections.) As you correctly pointed out, none of the negative partners caught HIV from their spouse in the first two years of the study. There were a total of 894 years of couple follow-up, and an estimated 16,400 gay BB fucks, and 28,000 straight ones. Based on the number and kind of sex acts, if the gay Poz guys were not on meds, the researchers would have expected about 86 of the Neg partners to seroconvert.

While the news is very encouraging, it's early to call it "Proof." Before the Partner study, there had been very little investigation into HIV transmission in gay couples, and none with enough data to produce a statistically significant result. Partner currently has more years of follow-up on this than all other studies combined.

They don't have enough data for a higher confidence that the results so far are not just random chance. In particular, they only have 93 couple years of follow-up for Poz tops cumming in Neg bottoms. They are recruiting 450 more gay couples, and will publish their final results in 2017. They are aiming for a total of 2082 couple years of follow-up with the gay partnerships.

Here's the actual presentation audio, slides, plus Q &A at the end. I think you need to be on a computer for this. I'm not sure it works for a mobile device.

If the final report from Partner still shows no transmission, and we get a similar result of Opposites Attract, it will be very powerful evidence to fight against Stigma. It will give us firm evidence that Undetectable Pozzies are not spreading HIV.

Just as there are people who are genetically resistant to HIV, some are genetically more susceptible to catching it. Scientists don't know what genes are involved, and how to test for that. I don't think we can ever have total "proof" that an undetectable Pozzie can never transmit. But if it can happen, it's got to be exceedingly rare. Anecdotal reports from the web, and medical facilities aren't reporting any.

Over on Queerity, in the comments on their story about the Partner study, one guy claims he caught HIV from his Undetectable Poz partner. A search of medical literature search shows one case. It is very suspect because there is no definitive Neg result on file, just the "Neg" partner's word that he had a test before the relationship.

[Guest pozbtm1967]

Agreed, this is reaffirms what many HIV specialists have been viewing in sero-discordant relationships for a few years now. It also means that more work is being done to develop a cure.

[rawhawk]

there is never a 100% guarantee, but monogamous, sero-discordant couples where the poz partner is (and has been for a while) undetectable, the neg partner is actually under almost no risk at all. But I stress, there is never a 100% guarantee he won't catch it.

[Guest pozbtm1967]

The calculated chance is near nil, but yes, there is a chance. There is a chance that someone can walk off a curb and be hit by a car (a much greater chance). When one is undetectable, or below those levels, the ability to transmit anything diminishes. The same way an infection is spread, like that of regular flu or worse viral issues, after the contagion phase.

Should we play this up? Is it ethical? That is a personal matter between all parties and their primary care physicians. However, this is not a half-assed study either and involves both heterosexual and gay couples. While the study is ongoing, the continued data should play out in favour for those in our situation. This is a fantasy site. People might post fantasy or they might post their reality. The important part is that we can continue to work to eradicate another disease that has cost the lives of millions.