Nightwalker

19 minutes ago, hntnhole said:

1.  Given your description of the area in which you (and he, I assume) live, there's a really good chance that he's as conflicted as you are.  When we live in repressive areas, or even countries, the defensive reactions are always our first when confronted with an "outside-the-normal-box" situation.  He's really dedicated to his profession, he has (as far as you know) relatively little social life, he's warmed to you in what he feels is an acceptable way, he's intelligent, and knows full well how dangerous it could be to let his guard down, yet he came up with the "big bro/little bro" description.  

he looks quite a confident guy which makes matters worse because he will try to hide his feelings (I think). He does little things outside his job but I think this is a thing of the present. Maybe the pandemic changed his routines. He is very tired at times, he was sick a couple of times. There are times I worry he's falling apart. Yesterday we did something interesting, maybe the most interesting thing we have done. We went to the theatre together (!) after my initiative. The play was super fun (Le misanthrope). Then we went for a dinner (a burger-style American something with a live). We came closer I can tell (but nothing actually happened). None of us drinks any alcohol so any idea of getting high is doomed. But I did something brave (maybe). He "Complained" that he was the older guy there (which was not true he's in his mid 30s for heavens sake) and everybody else is "youth". So I told him "most of the youth here would think you're sexy not old". It was the first time I saw him looked shocked ever. But he smiled (maybe to hide his surprise). Another thing, when I return home from a time we were together he wants me to text me that I returned which is cute (yet unreasonable).

33 minutes ago, hntnhole said:

I must say that 3 months may seem like a looooong time to you, but - given the strictures of where you live, it's not at all surprising to me that he's at the very least hesitant, and maybe very afraid to let his guard down.  In his mind, he's got one helluva lot to lose, and has little idea of what he might have to gain with you.  While I don't have knowledge of the cultural situation where you live, that can be a real inhibitor to allowing himself to even consider a "relationship" of some kind. 

If I were  you, I'd continue to stay the course you're on, being his friend/little brother, and very gradually, as obliquely as you possibly can, allow him to understand that there's more - much more - to be had with you.  No jumps into the issue, take "baby-steps".  Give him all the time he needs, and after another 3 months (which would make 6) there will either be progress or there won't.  If, by then, he simply cannot accept the perceived risks to his (and your) position, then gradually and gracefully begin to withdraw.  I realize that you think he's everything you want, you're smitten in all kinds of ways, and it would be very tough to gradually begin to separate.  If, after 6 months he simply cannot bring himself to warm to your presence in his life, then there's a difficult decision to be made.  We shouldn't have to wait for ages to be appreciated.  Clearly, you have a ton of attractive characteristics to offer, and you deserve to be happy, as does every other person on Earth.  Sometimes, guys can be incredibly obtuse.    

You're right. I try to make small steps, although I'm not sure for where I'm heading too. That guy is a dream. I admire him, he's a role model for me and it's been so long since I had someone to look up to. I'm sick of professors talking about respect and role models when their behaviour disgusts me. He never bothered to talk about respect or any kind of professionalism. You could just see both of them unfold as he acts. You are right we shouldn't wait forever. I also had sex with a guy which was really good but I felt somewhat ehm wrong? I felt like I was cheating on him. I was also thinking of him at some point but I'm afraid that maybe my mind has stucked and I got what I want (him) the passion could fade? I don't know. He feels precious for me.

Another strange thing is that I'm a bit scared/afraid. He's very kind to me but I always have in mind never to tell something stupid (in terms of medical knowledge) in front of him. One time, a med student said something REALLY stupid to him and I was like oh no he's triggered now (and he was). He will never yell at anyone, but the way he looks at you feels like he's reading through you.

3 hours ago, ErosWired said:

as men in general tend to mask their emotions, especially around other men, and particularly if they display outwardly as a ‘tough guy’. Probing beneath the mask may only stiffen it. You may want so much to find something that you decide something is there when it actually isn’t.

The most satisfying thing you’ve done lately is watch Tokyo Ghoul? Good Grief. You could be much more satisfied. There is much better anime out there.

The world would be a better place if men could express themselves, but all we do these days is talk about women. Many people are blindly ignorant of the huge impact this has on every society. I know there's much bette anime out there. I just finished fullmetal alchemist that I fell in love with. Tokyo Ghoul was okay, but it made fullmetal shine even brighter in my eyes.

5 hours ago, hntnhole said:

Thanks, Nightwalker, for a) joining up, and b) this most interesting post.  You've received superb input from a couple of the brightest men on BZ, and I hope you're finding it helpful.

One thing that has not been mentioned though, is how long has this situation been going on?  A year?  A month?  Several years?  Several months?  There are occasions that develop wherein a guy can achieve what he wants - but only partially - and that's enough for him.  I'm referencing the "big brother/little brother" parameters.  Apparently "dad/son" was too much for him, but it was fine for you.  Also apparently, "big bro/little bro" is acceptable for you, but you'd rather there be a more intense quality than bro/bro.  

I'm reading between the lines a bit, but apparently something inspired you to actually join up so you could ask questions of perhaps more experienced men "in the life".  That might be interpreted as founded in a bit of frustration at the status quo?  

I guess  what I'm wondering is, on a "1 to 10" scale, how important is it to you that this "friendship" move forward to more than what it currently is?  How long has this issue been simmering in the back of your mind?  

Thanks again for joining up, and offering this most interesting situation.  Good luck !!

Thank you for being kind. How long has it been? Well, not that long, since September. And I found him totally by chance. I think bro2bro is cute but calling some brother is a big statement and shouldn't be used or taken lightly.

Yeah you are right, I could use some advise. I'm not thaaaat experienced in these things. I know that I need this communication we have, it would hurt a lot if it stopped. I think it evolves but I don't know where it goes. I'm curious and excited about him. I see a confident good looking man, I want more and more. Sometimes I wanna see him naked, I wanna touch him and taste his lips. I jerk off thinking of him. Some other times I'm "calmer". I want him to be proud for me. He changed me somehow I think. There are several things I gained from him, so I can't easily tell you from 1-10 scare what I would give, but I can tell what I believe to have gained. 1) I gained confidence and knowledge 2) I learned to do practical things that I was too afraid to try on my own or even ask 3) I learned how to want to become better and better and 4) I learned to have some fun at times, he made me feel alive again and not just someone who studies-works-sleeps

2 hours ago, tighthole64 said:

Being in a homophobic place, and finding someone you think is attractive makes it tough.  

That's very accurate. I always thought the trick in this is to make the other "part" try to chase you. I believe that males like to be in a dynamics of a strong and a weak part where the strong likes to protect and dominate somehow. That is a mental thing however, and those who lack it are of no interest to me. So if this dynamic seems to exist by teasing it it can grow stronger until the other guy actively tries to be with you and understands that things are more complex than the gay-str8 thing.

2 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

Your country seems to be gay friendly on paper, but the culture doesn't seem to have evolved to that ideal.  Once you are finished with your medical education, have you considered moving to a more gay friendly place?  

There was a doctor where i work. i realized i had not seen him for a few months and then came back to work one day an she  was back. She had transitioned (mtf) and worked at the hospital where she had been known as a male for several years. She was accepted... people bent over backwards to show acceptance, and those who did not, kept silent.  

Being in an environment where you feel compelled to hide is "harm."   If your friend is gay, it seems evident to me that even though he is 12 years older and established, he still may not feel safe enough to be 'uncloseted.'  

i do not think your question is 'why you feel like this."  You're gay and attracted to men.  The challenge seems more that you don't feel free to express who and how you are. i don't think that all has to do with being gay. Straight people also risk rejection when expressing their feelings, but that don't have the added layer or potential stigma of being gay. 

Oh year we're very good with papers. Everyone seems happy and rich on paper. On realiity though these things are far from the truth. I'd like to move to the states but it's hard (passing the USMLE requires money that I don't have right now for example). I don't think that that doctor could survive in my country (unfortunately).

That's true.. expressing one's feelings is a big deal. Sometimes I just wanna tell him that I admire him and that although I tend to be tough on my ideas of other people, he's one of the guys that really impress me. I don't want him to think that I'm the guy who flatters. He's just too good. He tries to please everybody, he's fast and good at what he does. Sometimes I wanna ask him if his body hurts because he runs almost constantly throughout the clinic. I always think that he's hurt though. He's on his own. Maybe that's why he's so good, it's the lack of trust to others, possibly due to a bad experience? I wanna hug him so much.

10 hours ago, 120DaysofSodom said:

Look, be yourself. Be open. Be gay. Life is short and fleeting. You could die tomorrow. You could die twenty years from now. Dont waste the time you have living your life for the sake of others. Some people wont like it, but you already know how bigoted they are. Take a little pride in who you truly are though and step out of that closet. The medical field is full of us. Nobody that matters is going to care.

If you are willing to give up your friendship with this guy in the event he is not gay and you make a move on him, then thats the risk youre willing to take. On the other hand, friendships are more valuable than a hookup. So figure out for yourself what really matters more to you with this guy. There are friends of mine that are also coworkers that I have a massive crush on (I also work in healthcare in nursing), but I know fully well theyre straight and I would never risk the friendship between us to try and hit on them, or even want them to know I have a crush on them. I can pluck sex from a tree. I cant pluck meaningful friendships from a tree.

You seem to be just starting to come into the realization that you want to live your life as a gay man, and you should. Like I said: life is short. Fuck all what anybody thinks of it.

Also, if youre out, its going to be a lot easier to gauge other gays interest in you because they wont be asking themselves the same question youre asking yourself about this guy. Hope this helps.

I'm trying but it's not that easy. Some days ago, they asked us which specialty interests us more. A guy said he wants to be a dermatologist and the doctor told me him that this is too gay. And another who wanted to be an urologist he said what's wrong with you, you want to rub dicks? So I can't just being out. I feel that I would be either the "annoying" person that you won't be able to speak freely because he's a "crazed politicial correct dude" or because they would think I'm a woman that pretends the guy. Even worse I've been told to try and have sex with a woman because I'm a sexy guy and I look too healthy to be gay. So, nobody will hit me, punish me physically or kill me, but the emotional part is annoying.

Things would be easier if I had a bf right now. Bcz there's no rush about getting out of the closet. These days I'm just a busy guy with no interesting personal life. the most satisfying thing i've done is to watch Tokyo Ghoul on Netflix.

Talking about de-closetting, I will serve my military duty in a couple of years and that's kinda stressful. The envrironment will be quite hostile for a gay guy, so I would have to blend somehow.

10 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

We have a few things in common. i too work on healthcare, i'm a critical care nurse in a teaching hospital. Despite being in a position that is stereotyped as "gay" (i.e., male nurse), most of the male nurses i know and work with art straight. sigh. If feels like i have been flirted with from more than a few residents though (probably wishful thinking on my part).  i have been hit on by a few women doctors and nurses though. They are always surprised when i tell them i'm gay. i've been at this hospital for 8 years, you'd think it would have gotten around by now that: "paul is gay," but apparently not.  The truth is, if one is not obviously (or what is stereotyped as) gay, people will not truly know unless we tell them. i imagine, in part, women do not feel threatened by gay men like they might straight men. I.e., they never have to worry about us only being interested in them so we can get into their panties. Not to say that is "the" reason, but maybe 'a' reason?

Gay people grow up in a heteronormative world. Heteronormativity is like an iceberg, some of it floats on the surface and is seen, some of it below the surface, unseen, but it is still there.  You have been culturally conditioned (we all have, straights, gays, etc., etc.)  But straights don't usually question those things, instead, they call that "normal."  Which is part of that below the surface iceberg. Our notions of "normal," right and "wrong" are often culturally conditioned from an early age. 

Reality it, you do have "a big secret."  It's sad you have reasons for that, but you do have a secret that is "big" to you and would be to others as well. That is still a social reality, eh? 

I was always curious why many nurses are gay, while there is no such a stereotype (or tendency) in doctors. In the educational system of my country, if you don't score highly enough to be a doctor you can become a nurse. So one would assume that the percentage of gay doctor would be more or less equal to that of nurses. However from my experience, nurses have higher number of gay people (at least if you can "judge" that by looking at some people). I understand your example. I feel a little privileged being able to see guys undress before the operation room. For me, the worst thing is when a woman flirts me, I really can't do anything.

Yeah I do have a big secret. I was always alone when I had a crash on someone. And unlike straight people, where trying to get sexier somehow made you believe you would get the girl, I knew no matter what I did a str8 dude would be a str8 dude.

4 hours ago, onlyraw said:

Although you are not technically his “student”   He is in a position of authority- so he may need to be cautious… I work at a university and we have to sign and agree to very strict policies - I can be fired if I have sex with an undergraduate student (even though they are of legal age) and I would need to file a lot of paperwork (and get approval to have a relationship with a grad student)

And  if you live in an area that is not very accepting of gays (and if he is around 36 … he is still sort of new in his career) he may be cautious because he doesn’t want to - can’t risk - coming/being out

i would advise staying as things are…. At least for a while longer to get a little further in your education- and let him get further established in his career 

and enjoy the friendship and mentorship he is providing for what it is

In my uni, nobody would care trust me. There are many flaws that flow uninterrupted. The other day, a professor was calling gay guys abnormal. It took the furious comments of several girls (and guys thankfully) for him to seriously considering of ever using that word again for that purpose. 

4 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

don't believe you are "overthinking."  You're a gay man in a less than accepting world.  Just because there are laws that protect gays, and 'things are changing,' does not mean there won't always be people who have some degree of dislike, or even hate, for gay people.  Maybe some gay people have only gay friends because they want to feel free to be who they are without the concerns or fears that can be there in general society where there's a mix of everything. 

That's true. I believe because I look masculine I can pay hide and seek. Or maybe I can be a chameleon and blend, but I will always be hiding. So, at least I have a choice. People who can't hide, they don't. On the other hand, maybe it's easier that "someone else made the choice for you". I know some gay people and through them I know some straight friends of them (mostly women and men that are together with these women). It felt weird. Women were easier to accept us, it felt nice back then being able to be with my bf, but I always felt it wrong. It felt as If I had a big secret and risking.

4 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

Conversely, when we hide who we are, we are paying the cost of being unknown, invisible to some degree. 

True again. I guess I'm the asexual stranger or the closeted gay. I don't know whether people think that a forever single guy is gay or asexual. 

4 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

Speculating, i subscribe to the spectrum idea of human sexuality, so as much as it might make it simpler if we could just identify everyone in nice neat categories like "gay, straight, bi, etc.,"  the reality is, there are infinite variations of human sexuality.  He has already told you he likes the dad/son relationship. When you pointed out the age difference, he changed it to big/little brother.  Both of those are pretty common kinks, and whether or not it ventures into being gay, you already know you both like that. 

Well I do use these neat categories 😄

Although I understand that things can be more fluid in that, for a vast plethora of people it's not. From my point of view, sexuality and emotions are largely mental things. But some people don't have that mental capacity. It's like their brain is stuck and for some of them it's highly unlikely that this will change during their lifetime. Some people never change, never evolve. Love reveals, but some people can't love as it seems.

About him, he does like that dynamic. It was quite interesting how willingly he changed from considering me his son to consider me his lil' brother. He does call me brother, but only when us being alone. I'm quite sensitive to that topic though. I did have a brother which meant everything to me. Many dudes call each other bro or brother here and it's a generic word to use but it hurts. I don't like it when it's blindly used. I know he puts emotion to it, he uses a different word that means little brother in a single word. On the one hand it's soothing, on the other it hurts. Maybe I need some more time on this. I can't call him brother. I don't think it's a matter of kink though. Wouldn't he push things further and faster should it was just a kink?

For a third time, you are right again. We both like that. We never said that aloud but we know we like it.

5 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

As 'tough' as he likes to be, if he is gay, he (so far) hasn't taken the risk of telling you.  And you have not taken the risk of telling him. 

A universal truth is, when it comes to risk, it's not uncommon for people to want someone else to go first. It's called "being vulnerable" for a reason.

I always hoped that someone would just figure that I'm gay and that without telling he would know and that he would be cool with that. But that never happened. I'm more intrigued about him letting me know him better. As I said he's tough, I make little steps. He's gentle with me, but I don't know. I'm "careful". I believe he has a past that he won't talk much about it. I don't expect anything very exciting, but maybe someone broke his heart. It feels that way. He was gone for years to the States, he surely had something back there.

11 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

OK - so if there's nothing romantic going on, that  you can tell, and you're not sure you'd want to sleep with him (either while dating or casually), then I don't see much reason to pursue anything along those lines. It sounds like he's a very good friend - big brother/little brother type - and he's happy with that and I don't hear anything in what you're writing to suggest you definitely want more.

If you don't, then just continue doing what you're doing. If he wants more - and my guess is he doesn't, but he might - then it's on him to ask you.

Basically, as long as you're content with a non-romantic close buddy friendship, that's fine. Most men really need more of that in their lives.

Maybe I'm overthinking it. I do believe that him being a man (and not a woman) adds to our communication. Maybe men bond easier? And, I really love the big/littler brother dynamic, but is it possible between two stanger adults? Plus, what is he "gaining"? Everyone is getting something. I'm getting knowledge primarily and a nice friend. Does he need a friend too? And a guy like me can be his friend? 

It could just be me. I always try to think when I'm meeting someone if he could be of sexual/romantic interest. Maybe in a similar way that straight guys think of this with women. I like taking care of him. I love being able to get deep into his feelings and thoughts. That's what I like from my boyfriend (I mean when I have one). i like to "read" them.

Another thing, he's a tough guy as I said. It would be nice if he raised that shield and trust me with his vulnerability.

11 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

There's a lot to unpack in this post. You kind of pussyfoot around what your actual question(s) is/are, so I'm going to make some assumptions and respond accordingly. If I misunderstand feel free to correct me.

It sounds like you find this guy attractive and want to either (a) possibly date or (b) have sex with. For either one you'd have to know what his proclivities are.

I've never heard the word pussyfoot, but I believe it accurately describes my post. I'm not sure whether I want to do the b part and maybe we're already doing the a part. From my point of view he's somehow interesting in terms of appearance. I love his eyes and I think he's a very cute man. About the dating part I'm not so sure. We don't date but we do some of the things that happen during a date. We have been to the movies, we have had dinner but nothing romantic involved. We've even attended conferences. I think it's more often that we visit his house or we talk at the phone. Sometimes I've slept in his bed in the hospital at shifts (not together)

11 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

You don't say where you live - which is highly relevant. I get from your description that it's not the most gay-friendly place in the world, but that could be anything from a somewhat less-enlightened part of the United States to man places in western Europe to a lot of places in other parts of the world. Different places have different protections for gay people, so hiding behind an anonymous account where you don't even disclose your country, much less your city, leaves a huge hole in whatever help can be offered.

I live in South Europe. So unless someone is really stupid, super religious or whatever no one is going to harm me. But many men can't accept gays. They think they're very difference. It's funny. Men like to have male friends but they want them to be very similar (talk about football and women) but not a man that is gay. They can talk about women but I can't talk about men that I like,that's how I feel it. I don't like some gay guys that have only gay friends. For me, when society accepts you, you can be friends with anyone and not "just your kind". I don't want to fall under a special category of any sort.

11 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

It sounds like this guy may be in a supervisory capacity over you, in some fashion, even if he's not a professor. Regardless of where you live, that presents ethical issues you'll need to check into. Someone in an administrative capacity at the hospital and at the medical school should be able to explain what policies exist, if any, regarding socializing/dating between a hospital employee and a medical student. You can ask for general policies without naming names or revealing your sexual orientation.

Well, I attend the hospital at a voluntary basis. It's not one of my duties as a medical student. I just liked anaesthesiologist and asked them if I could attend and the chief said okay and I stuck with the guy I am now because he was kind and willing to teach. So all that, does not affect anything with regards to my student status. No grades or anything and he does not teach as part of his job. When it comes to policies, I doubt you will find anything.

12 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

If I were you, I'd be trying to find out more about him without committing to anything. He's invited you to his house; ask him about coming over for some specific, time-limited event (watching a TV show or movie, watching a sports event, dinner, whatever). Make sure it's time-limited so you have a good reason to leave after a reasonable amount of time, and pay attention while you're there. If he's got pictures of himself with other people, ask if they're family or friends. He may have some decor (like something with a rainbow) that conveys that he's LGBT-aligned, or maybe not. You can ask how long he's lived there. You can ask whether dating was difficult for him during medical school and has he found it easier since he's out of school and working as a doctor.

In other words, ask questions that give him the opportunity to volunteer more info to you - he's in the position of power (so to speak) so you want to let him set the pace. If he's gay or bi and has an interest in you, it'll come up at some point. If he is just interested in mentoring you, that should become clearer over time, too.

The point is, you don't HAVE to come out to him to get a lot further along in understanding what's going on. But you do have to do the homework.

He's tough to read. He likes being the hard guy, but he's kind hearted. He doesn't have any pictures in his house (I don't have either but I always thought that having pictures is a thing of the past). He has a big house for one person, but it feels a bit empty. He has tons of notes and books. He moved recently, he used to live abroad and the house is 2 years old (I mean from when he moved and fixed it). I've got the impression that he doesn't want to talk about relationships. Even today  he told me that I'm like his son and I told him he's too young for that and he called me little brother. Which unless he has a thing for incest, he wouldn't be calling me brother, would he? He needs to care for someone,that's what I think. He likes being protective.

I made this account because I want to discuss something that I wish I could discuss with my friends. I'm a 24 yo guy, closeted that lives in a slightly homophobic place. They won't take my head for it, but they will say bad things behind my back (though things have greatly improved, I recognise that)

So, I'm a medical student. I'm crazy about medicine, it's the best thing that I could ever have. Being a doctor meant everything to me. But I'm kind of a shy guy. I'm not the one who shines in front of the others, I will never be the volunteer for something (like "who wants to try and do that"?). But things changed a bit. I started attending hospital shifts and I was fortunate enough to find the most willing anaesthesiologist ever to show me things. He didn't judge me for being shy, but he's a tough guy. I learned a ton of things by his side. I believe he is what we call a mentor. But I think I have more complex feelings for him. I'm afraid that I've fallen in love.

I don't know if he's gay or straight. He's not easy to read. He's like a role model for me though. Fast, good at his job and with a positive attitude. Maybe a bit cocky (he's good and he knows it). He had me do several procedures on patients that other students will never try (because few people are willing to teach, and even fewer to be taught). I've spent endless hours in the hospital. We've come close. He's invited me to his home some times. He's 36yo. He never gave me a hint or anything that he could be gay or interested in me. He works out though, and because i do crossfit we talk about it so we kinda "observe" each other bodies (for instance when we dress/undress before an operation). However, he makes me feel that he feels that I'm something like a son to me. On the one hand that's lovely, on the other that could exclude something further. Me, myself I'm confused too. Am I falling in love or the fact that I'm gay complicates things?

Another thing. Something inside me needs to make him feel proud for me. And I believe he wants that too. I'm studying hard because I want him to know that all that time he invested on me was not in vain. Sometimes i wanna ask him, why me? Of all the other medical students.

PS. He's not a professor, just a specialist.