Living without HIV drugs

[amsbttm]

I'd just like to remind everyone that the USA is not the whole world, and that the FDA is therefore also not the whole world. However, the whole world approves and supports the use of ARV's in order to suppress Hiv viral load. Suppressing the virus has only positive consequences to your health. You live past 40 and without ARV's your chances of getting a heart attack become alarming, a debilitating stroke the same, if you smoke too than it's a question of WHEN you will get a heart attack and not IF. Let's cut the crap on this issue. You don't take ARV's you may live almost as long as someone not on meds but eventually you will suffer more diseases associated with old age, and earlier, than your grandmother .... (excuses to anyones grandmother).

[bearbandit]

but the truth is NO ONE knows the long term effects 10-30 years from now.

You're right: even in 2000 the study of ageing and HIV was almost inconceivable. But now we've got the drugs to to the point where PwHIV are surviving longer and longer, such study is a matter of urgency. But we would never have got to this point if some of us hadn't taken the chance and swallowed megadoses of AZT, ritonavir etc. I'll likely carry unwanted effects from just those two to my grave, but they kept me going long enough for something better to come along. Others weren't as lucky as I was. Life and the HIV drugs prolonging my own life, are both a gamble.

[GermanFucker]

any meds introduce a forced chemical change. this unnatural change results in the cells of our body changing, these mutations can cause our bodies cells to attack each other (cancer).

That would be an autoimmune reaction. Cancer is more like cell replication that has gotten out of control, suffocating other healthy cells.

Viruses, too, induce a forced change, they reprogram cells to do their bidding, often with even worse side effects. Herpes viruses can e.g. lead to cervical cancer in women.

Also, background radiation, toxins in nature, heck, even the oxygen we breathe cause cells to degenerate. A working immune system is the thing that keeps the balance by destroying those cells whose DNA has been damaged. By being immunocompromised / -deficient over a long period of time, more of these cells get the chance to do harm.

Of course antiretrovirals cause mutations. So does the alternative - namely not taking them or waiting until the last minute. We know waiting too long causes additional health problems in the short to medium term. So it would be ludicrous to assume that there won't ALSO be long-term effects 10-30 years from now.

[HungLatinDom]

any meds introduce a forced chemical change. this unnatural change results in the cells of our body changing, these mutations can cause our bodies cells to attack each other (cancer). granted these meds help maintain our white blood count protecting out bodies from viral infection yes, but the truth is NO ONE knows the long term effects 10-30 years from now.

I was going to reply to you, but I see it'd be absurd. You have very little understanding of real biology and chemistry. And a lot of conspiracy theory points of view. The FDA is not the only regulatory agency in the world. And again, we do not see gay guys dying in mass, as we did during the 80s. period.

[HungLatinDom]

That would be an autoimmune reaction. Cancer is more like cell replication that has gotten out of control, suffocating other healthy cells.

Viruses, too, induce a forced change, they reprogram cells to do their bidding, often with even worse side effects. Herpes viruses can e.g. lead to cervical cancer in women.

Also, background radiation, toxins in nature, heck, even the oxygen we breathe cause cells to degenerate. A working immune system is the thing that keeps the balance by destroying those cells whose DNA has been damaged. By being immunocompromised / -deficient over a long period of time, more of these cells get the chance to do harm.

Of course antiretrovirals cause mutations. So does the alternative - namely not taking them or waiting until the last minute. We know waiting too long causes additional health problems in the short to medium term. So it would be ludicrous to assume that there won't ALSO be long-term effects 10-30 years from now.

Shorter: being alive gives you cancer.

[pheashivada]

with respects to those who reply, im NOT saying taking the meds is bad and that no one should consider taking them. I AM saying that just because the FDA (or other global regulators) are not agencies that one can blindly trust, they are businesses with the sole intrest of making money.

in theory nano tech can be programed to kill every viral, bactiral, and damaging results while repairing and maintaining the human body. but to invest in such a theory is not going to make anyone money hence we dont attempt it.

my advice as stated before is do the research on ur meds, keep updated on more recent studies, and keep in mind that these meds are wild cards, what works for one wont nessisarily work for another.

as for the comment on my understanding of biology and chemestry, id appreciate it if you put as much effort into trying to demean it towards considering the point that was being mentioned. the fact u need to degrade suggests ur inability to accept a perspective designed for a child, for that i pitty u.

[HungLatinDom]

FDA and other regulators are not businesses and they are not for profit. Pharma companies are not angels and they play a lot of tricks, indeed, but it is ludicrous to claim that the FDA is for profit, even if it is not a perfect regulatory agency,

People ARE investing in nanotech and there is a LOT of research around it. It is absurd to claim investing in it is not going to make money for somebody, hell there are plenty of nano companies in materials science, but we are far away from bio applications. And there is a lot of research in enzymes that could edit DNA and cut out the virus from our cells. It is simply false that we are not attempting new approaches to get rid of HIV.

Meds have their risks, but it is a gross exaggeration to call them "wild cards".

When you start talking about cancer caused by something because it is not natural, you are showing to be ignorant of the most basic facts in biochemistry. Many natural substances cause cancer, many artificial ones are neutral, or combat certain cancers. So, I am not engaging in refuting claims that show the lack of the most basic understanding of biology, like understanding the difference between DNA and RNA.

If you want to believe your conspiracy theory, go on. But please at least try to back up your claims about meds in real biology if you are giving advice about health to others.

[pheashivada]

again u miss red my posts, everything you dispute i know, sadly i know stuff that does go on behind closed doors. everything anymore is business, including the FDA, that does not mean that every aspect of the fda is about profit, but it IS a business, registered as such. its ludacrise to say its not a business when its registered under the as one. a non profit organization is still a business, u negotiate the exchange of finaces for a service.

i did not say we dont in anyway invest in other options for a cure, but that the closest options to a cure are mystiriously halted before they go global as a non profit.

the statement that meds are a wildcard is not grostescly overstated, unless ur able to see the future you have no idea the long term effects of any meds.

cancer is caused by many things, some are natural, most seem to by synthetic. there are severall other illiments that are created by side effects of synthetic medications. such as M.S, Alztimers, diebeties, Dementia, etc. Some of these people develop naturally but the sudden explossion over the last 60 years is not natural, and as time passes we learn that many everyday things like cheese slices are linked to these illiments.

frankly as an admin ur rather dissapointing. Its childish and poor representation of an admin position. you also assume alot when you as an "educated" person should be asking for clairity. and really and really you dont know who i am what i do or where im from, you are no judge of my capabilities. the fact that you cant follow my mindset does not make me a lesser to you, it means you should clairify.

[amsbttm]

What's the point in discussing ARV's with someone like this? HIV meds are what we've got until a cure comes along. In the meantime it seems almost criminal to allow someone to say "don't take your meds". It's like inciting people to commit suicide. If you don't take the meds you die sooner rather than later. But if you want to be the exception to the rule that's fine by me … see you in the afterlife … maybe.

[pheashivada]

i havent said dont take your meds. I attempted to address a pervious claim that to me sounded like the person was implying the FDA does not make mistakes... which is wrong. I also mentioned that it is possible for them to misslead the people aswell, so to blindly trust an FDA approved product blindly isnt smart.

my point was and still is do reasearch. dont take the doctors word, or the FDAs word as if its from god. look at what they want to perscribe, look at forums filled with users that have it, get their opponion of personal effects. see what other meds u could also be able to use, with the strain u have. research the drugs engineering, and history. (rittalin is one molicule off from being cocain, that molicule caused more harm to the body then what the cocain would have). learn how it works, before u start.

if u go through all the meds availible then yea, u can choose not to use, and you could be one of those few who do better without them. I do not belive its best to not take ur meds, i just stand at a point to say the reglation from the doc's is only half the battle. they depend on ur responces and experiances. I also stated watch for and keep your eyes open for treatments in development, its had to stop a project that would have benifitied everyone here if paper and ink was not worth more then our lives. the more we know the better we can fight for more effective treatments to be availible.

[pheashivada]

I do appoligize if my points were writtin unclearly... communication is not my strongesuit.

[HungLatinDom]

One important thing:

I am posting here as an individual, with two degrees in sciences, and lab experience in molecular biology. I am not posting as an admin or moderator, so you want might to take back your words. If the moderation here, or I personally would oppress you or abuse my position, you'd be out of here by now, or your posts would be erased. So, I ask you to please refrain from personal attacks about moderation and focus on backing your claims.

I have worked in nonprofits and for profits, and they are two very different animals. If you want to make that claim, that they are the same, go ahead. But that only shows how far from reality is your worldview.

It is demonstrably fake that the closest options to a cure are are halted. The Berlin Patient has been all over the place for 2 weeks, and there is a lot of research in stem cells and genetherapy. It's just very hard to make them safe, because there is a high risk of cancer, from the non-differentiated cells. I wish biology would be easy, but it is not.

Finally, I do not care who you are, I care that you are spreading incorrect facts and misinformation in a very serious subject. These posts show when people google about meds and side effects, and that is why I do my best to counter your misinformation and conspiracy theories.

They have side effects? Yeah, sure, but so does everything that you get in your body. Indeed, get informed, learn about the side effects, talk with your doctor, evaluate your options, keep a healthy lifestyle, we want you around for many more years.

[dickluva]

I'm just keeping this thread alive with an update on me. It has now been 5 years since I discontinued HIV Rx 09/2007. My doctor told me I would be dead in one year if I discontinued drug therapy. I just bought(amazon<$20) & read the newest edition of "Built to Survive: A Comprehensive Guide to the Medical Use of Anabolic Therapies, Nutrition and Exercise for HIV+ Men and Women [Paperback]" Forth Ed. I'm 5'10 180# 30"W bench my own body weight, leg press 3x my weight, & run 3 miles 3X week. I could do none of those things while i took Rx. I still have not have VL or CD4 counts down since 2008. I feel great & people often comment I look much younger. I have a healthy libido & the strength to enjoy sex. I strongly recommend reading "BtS" if you are HIV+. Evidence or not, this is my life. My finances are healthy too, which I think is a product of my overall health. Enjoy your day~!

[cageyone]

People were dying of AZT poisoning. They will now with lower doses of the meds based on AZT die of liver failure. Big Pharma and the CDC stopped trials and pushed through newer versions of old meds. More on this, but I trust no doctor after they profiled and tested me without consent - after I said NO. And after they stipulated to known cross reactions to the 'test'. Ever notice now WHO the HIV testing and websites are pitched to now. Gilead and Merck and more.... They won't get me trapped.

[cageyone]

There is no money in a "cure". Statin drugs, Blood Pressure, Cholesterol, HIV - these are for life. And they make them so you will have withdrawals if you even attempt to go off them. Compassionate FDA, CDC and Big Pharma. A cancer "survivor" is 5 years. Chemo - HIV meds are black box chemo drugs that cause cancer. and done...