Leather/BB from a leatherman's view?

[fuckboy20]

Okay so I know I don't post here alot and I go ghost mode sometimes. But for the sake of this I will fill in a little background info about myself. At 18 I found a very kind Sir and submissive to train me. I have learned so much from them and am still with them but because of my young age and lack of experience I am so curious and like a sponge. Just wanting to learn as much as I can from people and experiences and take it in and absorb the knowledge and information.

Even though I had a lot of knowledge experience (still with them but it's open) not alot of experience with bdsm and leather play experiences. Have leather though. And have had some experiences that I mentioned.

This might not matter to some but to me it does so I will get to the point of this. I've learned a lot about gay history and obviously HIV has relevance. I know that AIDS did wipe out a majority of gay leathermen and some of which who were old guard or who had presence in the community and in leather culture.

So most Masters, tops, and those who have leather in their life and it's more then just kink and to get off seem to play safe and don't do bb. Most of these are older gay men who probably went through all kinds of things in their lifetime. Maybe it's just the area I'm in but I haven't found any. Then again I haven't really seeked the bb side and there aren't really leather men in my area. But I'm wondering if some might view old guard men might view bb as a way of life like men on this site do. I still think somewhere there are a bunch of older leather Sirs who converse and obviously have lots of sex and enjoy their lifestyles.But I can't help and wonder what the majority is. Barebacking or safe sex. Obviously if they own property its different and most do bb their slave or boy.

I don't think most people will care about this since I know some people view sex as just getting a nut and going and some view leather as something hot and fun to do but with everything I've learned and how I've been raised I take it a bit more to heart and that is not always a good thing..really never is but I digress.

After re-reading this I can tell i am not asking the question clearly. Point blank do the majority of older leather guy men (or old guard) participate in and practice bb sex or do most play safe. From a leather man's perspective I want to know their opinions of barebacking vs. safe sex. And I tried not to mention old guard because I know not everyone believes in it and some resent it but whatever you wanna call it old school or whatever the feeling doesn't change and still has meaning to some.

...Thank you.

[einathens]

you are absolutely correct that much of the old guard was wiped out by the first waves of the epidemic and was supplanted by the newer generation/new guard.

enough time has passed now that this 'new guard' is becoming the older generation, and most of the guys (i won't call them boys) in your age group may very well be in the leather lifestyle, but they don't necessarily define themselves by it they way men my age (mid-40) and older once did. it's just one more facet of their sexual lives.

now that i've digressed, to answer your question, in my experience the percentage of guys into leather who bareback is roughly the same as for guys who don't bareback. for the most part, older survivors don't bareback and younger guys do.

[kpig]

you are both correct.and i would add that i think leather has gone the way of harley davidson, it used to be the leather scene was only the guys that lived the life full time they usually made their own gear or knew a leather smith to make gear for them so it wasn't as commercial as it is now they belonged to organized clubs that had rules and bylaws so it was a tight knit community.now much like harley davidson because of the great expense envolved leather has become sort of a status symbol and lots of very well off guys inhabit the scene that aren't really as hardcore

[fuckboy20]

@einathens:

Thank you I was really nervous to mention old guard because I know how some respond to it. I don't really know what's going on with new guard because I am not in the scene. I have met very few young guys like me though who were extremely exceptional boys and carried themselves strong and with dignity and who brought honor to their Sir and represented their Sir very well. Some of them ran groups or helped out in the community but seemed to help other boys the most. I have high hopes for leather boys such as those and hope that they very well do become the next generation. I have no idea if they are old guard or new guard but whatever they call themselves or don't call themselves they have the values and spirit of old guard and that's what matters. At the same time there are some dangerous idiots out there who are also on the rise and unfortunately part of the next generation.

I do believe that you are right though and that most of the younger guys don't view or life leather as the older generation did and it is more of a facet of sexual life. But that in itself is part of it even if it's not the whole. But make no mistake there are even young guys out there who might not quite be living it as the older generation did but are living their lives and it's almost like growth rather then imitation.

I often wonder as well if bottoms bareback more then tops or if versatiles do more. But I won''t get into that. You are probably right. I wonder how many are open about barebacking though. I sure as hell am not. Being gay was no problem. Having an interest in leather and being a slave was difficult and felt like leading two different lives. Add barebacking to the mix now and it's like damn..always something to hide or that is kept secret. Might not always be but it always seems that way.

@kpig

I once thought that leather should be more open and out there and even got involved and got leather to have presence at pride. But I learned more about leather and what it used to be like. I would like leather to be more exclusive again but the catch is if it's so exclusive no one will know about it and those who want to learn about it might pass it. But those who really want it and seek it (like I did) will find a way and find it. But unfortunately it is what it is. At the very least at least the leather community did not become what the bear community is today. That would be worse.

Thank you.

[einathens]

the leather life is not just a fashion statement; it's a spiritual quest for the essence of male magickal energy. the number of men living it fulltime has always been small, in my opinion. in 30+ years of sexual exploration and expression, i've met maybe half a dozen total, including the 2 i currently know.

i think that the effect of AIDS on not just the gay population in total but also the leather subset cannot be overstated. to me it seems that by 1987 (when i turned 21), most of the older men i knew were dead, half of the guys 10 years older were dying, and about a quarter of guys my age were getting sick. seems like everyone else was driven underground.

i spent my 20s burying people. when a population changes that much that fast, much is lost. old rules and traditions are not upheld, and new ideas come in.

[cmmolthr]

Einathens, you and I are the same age, I have seen the leather scene in San Diego, where I live, dwindle to the point where the community we currently have can be considered a joke....yes, many died, but many left as well, as there was a local economic downturn during the late 80s and early 90s, and while the gay community as a whole tend to be large, the leather community is quite small by comparison to the overall gay population

[fuckboy20]

the leather life is not just a fashion statement; it's a spiritual quest for the essence of male magickal energy. the number of men living it fulltime has always been small, in my opinion. in 30+ years of sexual exploration and expression, i've met maybe half a dozen total, including the 2 i currently know.

i think that the effect of AIDS on not just the gay population in total but also the leather subset cannot be overstated. to me it seems that by 1987 (when i turned 21), most of the older men i knew were dead, half of the guys 10 years older were dying, and about a quarter of guys my age were getting sick. seems like everyone else was driven underground.

i spent my 20s burying people. when a population changes that much that fast, much is lost. old rules and traditions are not upheld, and new ideas come in.

I understand it's not just a fashion statement. But here is the thing though. You burried people and you knew lots of people who died from AIDS and the effect it had on the community as a whole. More then others might know or realize. Yet still you bareback.

I thought it would be a slap in the face at first to all the leathermen who came before and died from AIDS or those who knew people who died. It seems like bbing would be the last thing someone who experienced the AIDS period or who knows about it would do. I don't know your reasons for it but despite the fact that older gay leathermen I know remember people who died during that time period and buried some friends and went through that doesn't stop me. I don't think that makes me selfish but I'm not ignorant at least. I'm not doing it to spite anyone or to ignore information, knowledge, and safety about condom use and AIDS and the prevention of it. It's just something I really fucking enjoy and something that I won't stop doing. But I am aware of the risks and understand them and accept the risks and responsibility. By doing that at least I don't think it's a disgrace to those who died of AIDS.

Interestingly enough I have met a leather man recently who does seem to be very knowledgable of old guard and does bb. He was trained as a boy and slave originally first. Something that I don't see too often. Most tops claim to be 100% top even if they have never been a slave or bottom before. Whether they really believe that or they just never got the chance old guard tops believe you had to at least have been a bottom or slave at one point and trained or served as one to understand the bottoms perspective and to be a really good TOP or DOM.

But it just meant the world to me meeting a leatherman who has old guard knowledge and background and who barebacks boys with no problem and who really showed lots of care, lust, aggression, and control when he used me. It gives me hope and faith that one I can be a good and strong leatherboy even though I bareback and will become poz one day. And too I will be accepted by some type of leathermen out there and maybe even a community. Even though BB is so forbidden in some areas. I want to be as open and honest about it as possible.

[Inception]

I am not a leatherman, and not super knowledgeable about the scen. In my 20's I had some curiousity and met a few older leather guys but realised that it just wasn't my thing. The leather scene is not super huge here but I do think that there is definitely more of a safe sex focus in that scene - especially for guys who are not monogamous. I am curious about your comment in one of your posts about the bear scene. You said, "at least the leather community did not become what the bear community is today. That would be worse." What do you find bad about that scene? In that scene there are people who are some groups of guys who are very open to poz guys and barebacking. Though not all. I met one young bear at the tubs who I didn't realize at the time was super involved in the bear/leather scene here who has a Dom who had trained him to be fisted. He wanted me to fist him at the tubs, and I did a bit but was freaking out about it as it is not my thing, and he was interpretting it that I was scare of HIV, but I was like I'm not worried about that I'm poz myself, what I'm worried about is rupturing your colon because I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I've seen the guy multiple times at clubs and bear events since and he hasn't said fuck all to me, like not even "Hello." The clique he is part of seem to be all very anti-poz people - though I assume they probably bareback within their own group. I was at a bear nite in October and had a young leather guy making eyes at me, until an older leatherman who I have never seen before came up to him and said to him - loud enough that I could hear it - "Oh that one's a baeback bottom," and then the younger guy stopped cruising me. Which is pretty much BS since I am open about my staus and open about being fine with safe sex - I like BB but I'm not hung up on it if it is a barrier to getting cock (not wanting a barrier a barrier to getting cock? wrap your head around that one!). There is definitely a stigma about bareback in my city among some groups. It doesn't help that so many guys equate BB with the PnP scene and meth heads. The hookup site that is most popular here is Squirt and there are lots of guys whose profiles don't just say they prefer safe sex, but in their profiles guys make rude comments about how they are not interested in poz guys or barebackers. And this is in a city with free healthcare where most poz guys are on free meds and are undetectable. Anyways that's off topic about the leather scene.

I just wanted to make one more comment regarding your statement: "It gives me hope and faith that one I can be a good and strong leatherboy even though I bareback and will become poz one day." You are young, you are horny and doing all kinds of crazy things and yes if you continue youy will likely become poz. I've been there done that. BUT I don't recommend it. You don't have to be such a no holds barred slut that you get poz, you can use the head on your shoulders instead of the one in your pants. Don't indiscriminitately bareback. Ask if a guy knows his status and if he is poz if he is taking his meds and is undetectable. That's no guarantee but it might reduce the risk that you will need to be on expensive meds for the rest of your life. Plus there are SO MANY neg guys and married guys who are genuinely freaked about HIV but would love to be able to let loose and fuck a young hot neg boy like you that you should be able to discriminate and be choosey. Being picky about who fucks you doesn't make you less submissive, it makes you intelligent, and for plenty of guys that's a bigger turn on than some dirty ho or drugged out skank.

[fuckboy20]

What I meant about the beat community is this. I know a few people in the bear community. I know people who were in it when it was first starting off. The bear community imo has become extremely over saturated. It used to be furry guys were bears but then everyone become a bear. Someone who doesn't look like a bear can be a bear and there are so many different types. Bear parties and runs are sometimes the worse too. Those that aren't bear enough or aren't bear at all or as hot or attractive are outcasts. The guys who are really bearish, cute, or sexy sometimes get cliquish and have probably a stable of guys they fuck around with and talk with and rarely let others in unless they find them hot.

I do think that some bears do bb more but I don't think they are open to it.

As for the bbing. Yes I'm doing stupid and crazy things. But I'm being honest with myself. I used condoms for a number of years (only 22..lol) and liked using condoms but then slowly was wondering about bb. Once I barebacked I was nervous about getting pozzed or catching something. After I let more and more guys bb I decided I don't care anymore. Don't care about being poz or having an altered life. I'm a bareback bottom slut whore pig. This takes some guys YEARS to realize and even longer to practice it. There are tons of older pigs who I would love to learn from who have the experience and lust that surpasses mine. In many ways like you said it's not the best to start this young. But like with sex at first and then leather. I knew what I wanted. I seeked it out. Leather was tricky but I made lots of friends, was part of a leather family and was a slave, then a boy, and now just me and the experiences and memories I have with it are treasure. But I was able to get this far because I was honest with myself. I always used to worry about going too piggy and restrained myself because I wanted to do that with someone who meant something to me one day. I'm not so concerned about monogamy like that.

I'll admit, even as much as I put out and throw my ass around there are many things about my personality, nature as a submissive, and just in general that I don't give men..even clients but would show and give to a real DOM top that meant a lot to me or owned me even if part time.

I do agree with that part about being discriminate and choosey makes me smarter. There are times I want to just bend over and let anyone fuck me but I'm not able to do that. Even on sites like BBRT there are tops that want to fuck me sometimes or guys and I'm just not into them. A bareback cumpig would let anyone fuck them and breed them. I'm probably getting a bad reputation as a bottom by doing that and probably considered picky. But maybe that's for the best.

For the most part even at clubs or gangbangs. Most tops still try to sense or feel out if the bottom wants to get fucked by them. Yeah some might just fuck and not care but even with cum n dumps I believe that most men still want some sense of connection and lust that is mutual between the two instead of just an ass..

But then again last night at the clubs I just wanted cock in my ass and to be breed. But time and place for everything. As long as a bareback bottom keeps their personality, nature, and what makes them who they are I think that's attractive. A top fucked me the other night a friend of mine. We were too overexcited for him to breed me but we laughed during and there was humanity involved besides hot sex. I found that hot. But then again we knew each other.

I do think that there a good amount of bb leathermen out there. In some ways I actually do think that those tops and leathermen out there who are somewhat involved with women, straights, and more of the pansexual community do play safe. Because safe sex is the general consenseus of most straight laced communities. And from experience the pan community in some ways is very straight laced and more about leather being a general kink then a lifestyle. I don't think that women can understand what it is really like for two men..and leathermen to have sex together. The passion, lust, and experience that they share during sex and the bonds that are made (or not made). It's not something that can be emulated.

I tend to seek leathermen..who are more involved with men then women. But these are somewhat inherited ideals and experiences. But from what I've seen so far it seems to be true.

[Inception]

Thanks for your lengthy reply. I really like reading what you have to say since you always put so much thought into it and are actually living the life and not just one of the people posting here with all fanatasy. It's 1AM my time as I write this and I am dead tired as I spent the night at the tubs, the second night in a row where I was out til midnight when I have to be up for work at 7, so I am not able to write anything lengthy.

I just came on here to find some porn to jerk to while playing with my wet hole.