us presidents

[Hotload84]

You're right, A6uldeve84u. There is a great deal of speculation with Lincoln. Apparently, in addition to his bed partner back when Lincoln was in his twenties, as president Lincoln took a great interest in one of his body guards as well as a certain Union soldier. For what it's worth, however, unlike Buchanan, Lincoln's friendships with males didn't raise any eyebrows.

At the very least, historians seem agreed that Lincoln preferred the company of men to that of women. To paraphrased one source I recently read, '...there are ample records of Lincoln's interest in men, but there is record of his involvement with only one woman, Mary Todd Lincoln....'

[Belfast-Bottom]

Not wishing to squash any Lincoln fantasies but historically, same sex bed partners were a fairly frequent occurrence in cold regions for reasons of warmth. There is much that I dislike about Clinton, but he could fuck me in a heart beat!

[Hotload84]

Not wishing to squash any Lincoln fantasies but historically, same sex bed partners were a fairly frequent occurrence in cold regions for reasons of warmth. There is much that I dislike about Clinton, but he could fuck me in a heart beat!

You're right, Belfast-Bottom. In addition, given the very real possibility of a short-fall in beds, same-sex bed partners was also common. For what it's worth, here's the Wikipedia discussion about Lincoln and his same-sex bed partners.

"...in 19th century America men commonly bunked with other men. For example, when lawyers and judges traveled 'the circuit' with Lincoln, the lawyers often slept 'two in a bed and eight in a room'. William H. Herndon recalled, 'I have slept with 20 men in the same room'. A tabulation of historical sources shows that Lincoln slept with at least 11 boys and men during his youth and adulthood. There are no known instances in which Lincoln tried to suppress knowledge or discussion of such arrangements, and in some conversations, raised the subject himself. [Author] Tripp discusses three of them at length: Joshua Speed, William Greene, and Charles Derickson.

Relationship with Joshua Speed

Lincoln met Joshua Fry Speed in Springfield, Illinois, in 1837. They lived together for four years, during which time they occupied the same bed during the night (some sources specify a large double bed) and developed a friendship that would last until their deaths. According to some sources, William Herndon and a fourth man also slept in the same room. Historians such as Donald point out it was not unusual at that time for two men to share even a small bed due to financial or other circumstances, without anything sexual being implied. Putting the issue in historical perspective, Jonathan Ned Katz wrote of the bed sharing:

At the start of the twenty-first century it may even be difficult to imagine a man, especially a bachelor,

offering another a place in his bed without some conscious fear or desire that the proposition will be

understood as a come-on. In the nineteenth century, Speed was probably not conscious of any such

erotic possibility. His immediate, casual offer, and his later report of it, suggests that men's bed sharing

was not then often explicitly understood as conducive to forbidden sexual experiments.

[Author] Katz does indicate that such sleeping arrangements 'did provide an important site (probably the major site) of erotic opportunity'. Katz notes that referring to present day concepts of "homo, hetero, and bi distort our present understanding of Lincoln and Speed's experiences" and that rather than there being 'an unchanging essence of homosexuality and heterosexuality' people throughout history 'continually reconfigure their affectionate and erotic feelings and acts'. He suggests that the Lincoln-Speed relationship fell within the 19th century category of 'intense, even romantic man to man friendships' with erotic overtones that may have been 'a world apart in that era's consciousness from the sensual universe of mutual masturbation and the legal universe of 'sodomy,' 'buggery,' and 'the crime against nature'. Possibly, correspondence of the period, such as that between Thomas Jefferson Withers and James Henry Hammond, provides clear evidence of a sexual dimension to some same-sex bed sharing. The fact that Lincoln was open about the fact that they had shared a bed is seen by some historians as an indication that their relationship was not romantic. None of Lincoln's enemies hinted at any homosexual implication.

Joshua Speed married Fanny Hennings on February 15, 1842, and the two men seem to have consulted each other about married life. Despite having some political differences over slavery, they corresponded for the rest of their lives and Lincoln appointed Joshua's brother, James Speed, to his cabinet as Attorney General.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Hotload84

[cheshiregay]

Obama for me.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Hotload84

[Belfast-Bottom]

Obama could persuade me, and both BUSH presidents could fuck me! Kennedy and Nixon would be welcome too - I guess I'm a slut!

Edited December 10, 2011 by Hotload84