Bareback Poz, "bugchasers" and the criminalizatin of poz people

[TonyRedux]

the inevitability of political groupthink has always been an amusement to me. inside the HIV+ community, there is controversy regarding the amount of responsibility HIV+ people have for preventing themselves from infecting others. OUTside the HIV+ community, there really is no trace of such controversy...only the broad consensus that transmissible diseases need to be controlled. 30 years into HIV, the trend toward criminalization is accelerating. personally i do most of my cruising online and maintain a consistent practice of broad, open disclosure in all settings...i used to serosort but learned that neg bugchasers can lie, so i universally disclose, control my own infectiousness as much as possible chemoprophylactically, and disregard anyone's claim of their own status.

i am comfortable that my practices leave me somewhat less vulnerable to unscrupulous nutjobs making false claims about lack of HIV-disclosure...but i am also comfortable that i can defend myself against broader charges of spreading a deadly illness. i don't think everyone here can say the same, and i think it's a mistake to assume u'll never have to.

here in New York State, we have "Typhoid Mary" laws that allow the state to preemptively incarcerate individuals who present risks to public health. they have never been applied to HIV+ persons before, but it's a mistake to think that they never would be...the NYC DOH has been announcing plans on better coordination with the NYPD n with other DOH's...specifically about "people of concern". some of the conversations here would make their radar for sure.

...not to mention the possibility of a right-wing political feeding frenzy the likes of which would make Jesse Helms look up from his deep pit in Hell, n blush...

[bearbandit]

i used to serosort but learned that neg bugchasers can lie, so i universally disclose, control my own infectiousness as much as possible chemoprophylactically, and disregard anyone's claim of their own status.

I've always maintained that the only people who can sure of their serostatus are people who are poz. In the 25 years I've known my status I've met two, perhaps three, disturbed individuals who have falsely claimed seropositivity. Since re-joining the fray (detailed in another post) I've always kept my HIV+ status as part of my profile. Hell, I even give my real age ;-) In private chat one of the first questions I ask is "have you read my profile? All of it?" A lot of chats frequently end at that point: in the UK it's seen as the PwHIV's responsibility to look after the sexual health of the HIV-unknown. I asked in a recent speech at a World Aids Day event "Is there a single HIV-unknown person in this entire country capable of rational thought once they've got their underwear off?" Lots of uncomfortable looking faces - clearly the joke didn't go down well.

I think you and I, Tony, are preaching the same message to the same choir, just under different sets of rules (the UK and US legislature). We've had a number of prosecutions for transmission of HIV and even for herpes: I'm waiting for middle class moms to get prosecuted for chicken pox parties...

For myself, I want the sex I want, as safely (both medically - I don't need hep C or syph or anything else - and legally) as I can make it. If that means missing out on some hot HIV-unknown guys, then so it.

Interesting that you mention the "Typhoid Mary" laws: my first TV appearance as a PwHIV was on a chat/documentary in 1988 about a Swedish proposal to imprison HIV+ people (they even had the island prison chosen already) who refused to adopt safer sex/injecting practices in order to protect the general public.

Edited January 29, 2012 by bearbandit
typo correction - which probably means there are loads more than I saw!

[pozdanny]

Thank you for mentioning the situation of the NYC laws. I am in NYC too, and the Dept. of Health constantly putting theblame on positives.... that needs to stop.

[TonyRedux]

i used to serosort but learned that neg bugchasers can lie, so i universally disclose, control my own infectiousness as much as possible chemoprophylactically, and disregard anyone's claim of their own status.

I've always maintained that the only people who can sure of their serostatus are people who are poz. In the 25 years I've known my status I've met two, perhaps three, disturbed individuals who have falsely claimed seropositivity. Since re-joining the fray (detailed in another post) I've always kept my HIV+ status as part of my profile. Hell, I even give my real age ;-) In private chat one of the first questions I ask is "have you read my profile? All of it?" A lot of chats frequently end at that point: in the UK it's seen as the PwHIV's responsibility to look after the sexual health of the HIV-unknown. I asked in a recent speech at a World Aids Day event "Is there a single HIV-unknown person in this entire country capable of rational thought once they've got their underwear off?" Lots of uncomfortable looking faces - clearly the joke didn't go down well.

I think you and I, Tony, are preaching the same message to the same choir, just under different sets of rules (the UK and US legislature). We've had a number of prosecutions for transmission of HIV and even for herpes: I'm waiting for middle class moms to get prosecuted for chicken pox parties...

For myself, I want the sex I want, as safely (both medically - I don't need hep C or syph or anything else - and legally) as I can make it. If that means missing out on some hot HIV-unknown guys, then so it.

Interesting that you mention the "Typhoid Mary" laws: my first TV appearance as a PwHIV was on a chat/documentary in 1988 about a Swedish proposal to imprison HIV+ people (they even had the island prison chosen already) who refused to adopt safer sex/injecting practices in order to protect the general public.

heh...ironic. thanks for that perspective!

[nastybottom]

why would someone intentionally get a deadly virus to "cash in" on some Top?

That question occurred to me as well. Someone who has to pay thousands for HIV drugs isn't the best target for a scam, and any ill-gotten gains would go towards those same drugs...not much profit potential there.

I think it comes down to the bug chaser not thinking through what they were getting themselves into, not being able to afford the drugs, and then trying to make the giver responsible for their decision.

[pozdanny]

That is exactly the point. To try to "Cash in" on someone through willingly getting HIV makes the same kind of sense as getting HIV willingly... NONE!

[rawlover]

i used to serosort but learned that neg bugchasers can lie, so i universally disclose, control my own infectiousness as much as possible chemoprophylactically, and disregard anyone's claim of their own status.

I've always maintained that the only people who can sure of their serostatus are people who are poz. In the 25 years I've known my status I've met two, perhaps three, disturbed individuals who have falsely claimed seropositivity. Since re-joining the fray (detailed in another post) I've always kept my HIV+ status as part of my profile. Hell, I even give my real age ;-) In private chat one of the first questions I ask is "have you read my profile? All of it?" A lot of chats frequently end at that point: in the UK it's seen as the PwHIV's responsibility to look after the sexual health of the HIV-unknown. I asked in a recent speech at a World Aids Day event "Is there a single HIV-unknown person in this entire country capable of rational thought once they've got their underwear off?" Lots of uncomfortable looking faces - clearly the joke didn't go down well.

I think you and I, Tony, are preaching the same message to the same choir, just under different sets of rules (the UK and US legislature). We've had a number of prosecutions for transmission of HIV and even for herpes: I'm waiting for middle class moms to get prosecuted for chicken pox parties...

For myself, I want the sex I want, as safely (both medically - I don't need hep C or syph or anything else - and legally) as I can make it. If that means missing out on some hot HIV-unknown guys, then so it.

Interesting that you mention the "Typhoid Mary" laws: my first TV appearance as a PwHIV was on a chat/documentary in 1988 about a Swedish proposal to imprison HIV+ people (they even had the island prison chosen already) who refused to adopt safer sex/injecting practices in order to protect the general public.

In reality, wouldn't an HIV + island mean that you pretty much would have sex with everyone without worrying about a thing? The only issue is about trying to leave the island to visit family or something, tho as a resort type thing, it would be a good idea just for a week of sex, anywhere on a private island,.. Kind of interesting

[rawlover]

Tho I understand thee are other diseases and such but a lot of chasers don't pay so much attention to the other life long commitments - per say

[gaynudist61]

If a hiv+  top fucks me bareback and I become hiv+ I have no right to suehim or press criminal charges against him because I knew what I getting into