Hiv without meds

[bbsaft]

Since 3 years I'm poz. CD4 are now 350 and a high viral load. I'm not taking meds b'cause I don't want those drugs. How does it evolve without taking meds? It's hard to find information and doctors aren't helping answering that question.

[Guest GoodExercise]

Some poz guys never progress to AIDS. Others get to a stable level of CD4s and VL and stay there for a long time, then progress to AIDS. If you progress to AIDS, this will be indicated by CD4s below 200 or the presence of an AIDS-related opportunistic infection such as pneumocystis carinii pneumonia or cytomegalovirus disease. Eventually, one of the opportunistic infections causes death.

[rawTOP]

Since 3 years I'm poz. CD4 are now 350 and a high viral load. I'm not taking meds b'cause I don't want those drugs. How does it evolve without taking meds? It's hard to find information and doctors aren't helping answering that question.

Basically you're very close to the point where, if you don't take your meds, HIV will start doing real, permanent damage to your body and you'll probably die in 5 years +/-. Don't fuck around with HIV or think you can beat it - it will win.

But to answer your question - soon you'll start getting opportunistic infections (OI). They're pretty miserable. You'll probably wind up in the hospital for some of them. If you reject ARVs, the meds they'll use to treat the OIs will be pretty draconian - talk about real damage to your body. It's not pretty and those of us who saw loved ones die of AIDS never want to go back to that time.

Just take your meds. It's time.

[bearbandit]

As rawTOP says, you're on the brink of finding out for yourself how HIV progresses. If my CD4 gets down to 350 I start getting candidiasis in my mouth and throat. When I got down to the low 200s, I neglected to wear gloves etc when feeding a sickly orphaned lamb and ended up with cryptosporidiosis (when the water authorities tell you to boil all drinking water it's almost always because cryptosporidium has got into the water supply), which entailed shitting myself four or five times a night for five weeks.

The longer you leave treatment the worse it gets: my partner was completely unaware of having HIV until he had a needlestick injury at work. We worked out later that he must have got it some years previously when he was the first on the scene when an injecting drug user hit an artery instead of a vein and in the course of getting a tourniquet on the guy to stop the massive blood loss he took a faceful of blood. When he tested after the needlestick injury he had only 80 CD4 cells, and as it turned out MAI, a relative of TB. It took him four miserable years to die, losing half his body weight in the process.

See your doctor. Take the pills.

[Guest cardoc49]

rawTOP and bearbandit are smart and caring men - listen to their advice.

xx

Carsten

[lower_bucks_bottom]

I'm not taking meds b'cause I don't want those drugs.

Do you not want those drugs on priciple, or because of the side effects? If it is because of the side effects you should know that the modern drugs have very mild to no side effects. I take Isentress and Truvada and have 0 side effects. My Dr refers to Isentress as a drug in search of a side effect.

[bbsaft]

Do you not want those drugs on priciple, or because of the side effects? If it is because of the side effects you should know that the modern drugs have very mild to no side effects. I take Isentress and Truvada and have 0 side effects. My Dr refers to Isentress as a drug in search of a side effect.

It's more principle. I live quite healthy and don't take chems. I want to extend as long as possible without meds.

[lower_bucks_bottom]

I would consider a CD4 count of 350 to meet your criteria and go on meds.

[bearbandit]

It's more principle. I live quite healthy and don't take chems. I want to extend as long as possible without meds.

It doesn't matter how healthily you live: a CD4 count of 350 and a high viral load are not healthy. Chems don't come into it: the nearest I've come to chems is viagra. At a CD4 of 350 you're at the top of a slope: the longer you leave taking meds the more difficult it's going to be to regain full function of your body.

To be blunt, what you're doing by not taking drugs is passive suicide. It's your right to do so - in fact I tried it myself after my last partner's death seven years ago. I've never made up the ground I lost and am now registered disabled. It's not just opportunistic infections: it's now known that HIV itself attacks your system directly, with a particular fondnesss for brain cells, skin cells and the lining of the gut.

[wood]

Since 3 years I'm poz. CD4 are now 350 and a high viral load. I'm not taking meds b'cause I don't want those drugs. How does it evolve without taking meds? It's hard to find information and doctors aren't helping answering that question.

I suspect you just don't like what you are hearing. The simple answer is that you die a slow painful death without medication. Thats it. You also are probably transmitting the virus to other people because you are so virulent, not cool.

You have a choice, you take the meds and live a mostly normal life, or you dont, and die within probably 3-5 years. There are VERY few people who are whats called long term non-progressors who dont really need medication. From just your CD4 count I know you are NOT one of them. If you have a 350 CD4 and high viral load 3 years in, you are going downhill pretty quick.

Basically you're very close to the point where, if you don't take your meds, HIV will start doing real, permanent damage to your body and you'll probably die in 5 years +/-. Don't fuck around with HIV or think you can beat it - it will win.

But to answer your question - soon you'll start getting opportunistic infections (OI). They're pretty miserable. You'll probably wind up in the hospital for some of them. If you reject ARVs, the meds they'll use to treat the OIs will be pretty draconian - talk about real damage to your body. It's not pretty and those of us who saw loved ones die of AIDS never want to go back to that time.

Just take your meds. It's time.

Spot on. And really you probably already did a decent amount of damage 3 years without meds. Theres a good reason many doctors are having people go on treatment immediately now

[wood]

It's more principle. I live quite healthy and don't take chems. I want to extend as long as possible without meds.

You dont get it, thats not an option. Im gonna be real blunt here.

YOU ARE NOT HEALTHY, HIV IS KILLING YOU, YOU WILL DIE FROM IT FAIRLY SOON WITHOUT MEDICATION.

get it?

[wood]

Some poz guys never progress to AIDS. Others get to a stable level of CD4s and VL and stay there for a long time, then progress to AIDS. If you progress to AIDS, this will be indicated by CD4s below 200 or the presence of an AIDS-related opportunistic infection such as pneumocystis carinii pneumonia or cytomegalovirus disease. Eventually, one of the opportunistic infections causes death.

if his CD4 count is 350 he's not one of them.

Long-term non-progressors are defined as HIV-positive individuals who do not need to take HIV treatment and who remain symptom-free with a CD4 cell count above 500 cells/mm3 for at least eight years after their infection with HIV

http://www.aidsmap.com/HIV-non-progressor-status-established-soon-after-infection/page/1432975/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_nonprogressor

Additionally it is REALLY irresponsible for anyone to think or even really say its a possibility that someone will be a LTNP. Its about a 1 in 500 chance of that happening, and given someone that hope is just silly.

[VoiceOfReason]

It's more principle. I live quite healthy and don't take chems. I want to extend as long as possible without meds.

Well, there's 2 issues with this and ultimately a choice you've got to make. Since you aren't treating your illness with the prescribed drugs Big Pharma makes a stupid killing off of every year in combating the virus it's simply eating your white blood cells away and making all kinds of reservoirs in your body so if treatment is started it's got PLENTY of places to hide. You either start the treatment or look for other alternative ways of fighting the infection via blood electrification, tetra silver shots, or whatever other remedies that are currently out there that you WON'T find "advertised." Or live the way you've been living and hope for the best.

The sad reality of this specific disease is, when initial infection occurs in the virus first entering it's 1st white blood cell it's basically game over. Your body does what it can to defend itself against it's new life long invader but it's hard to keep up with something that not only continues to mutate, but imitates infected cells as "healthy ones" in fusing it's RNA with your DNA in becoming one with cellular information. When this bug was created back in 1963-1978 in a 15 year long covert study called the "Virus Cancer Research Program" these medical microbiologist knew what they were doing in creating a weaponized disease meant to attack & destroy the immune system of it's host. That's why there's no recovery rate in a cure when one is infected, "on their own."

[bearbandit]

When this bug was created back in 1963-1978 in a 15 year long covert study called the "Virus Cancer Research Program" these medical microbiologist knew what they were doing in creating a weaponized disease meant to attack & destroy the immune system of it's host. That's why there's no recovery rate in a cure when one is infected, "on their own."

Thank you - those two sentences show your agenda. Now go and put your tin foil hat on so the aliens can't tell what you're thinking.

Alternatively you could explain how HIV found it's way into the blood of a 16 year old boy in the USA and a British sailor in the 1950's...

[rawTOP]

The sad reality of this specific disease is, when initial infection occurs in the virus first entering it's 1st white blood cell it's basically game over. Your body does what it can to defend itself against it's new life long invader but it's hard to keep up with something that not only continues to mutate, but imitates infected cells as "healthy ones" in fusing it's RNA with your DNA in becoming one with cellular information. When this bug was created back in 1963-1978 in a 15 year long covert study called the "Virus Cancer Research Program" these medical microbiologist knew what they were doing in creating a weaponized disease meant to attack & destroy the immune system of it's host. That's why there's no recovery rate in a cure when one is infected, "on their own."

This is patently not true and, if followed, could kill someone. I've drawn the line and have banned VoiceOfReason permanently.