Is it possible to be undetectable without meds?

[rawTOP]

I have a fuck bud (who I just fucked) who says he's undetectable but says he's gone off his meds. He says he hasn't told his docs he went off the meds but every time they test him he comes up undetectable. I know guys can have low viral loads without meds but is it possible to be "undetectable" without them?

[Bareconfessions]

I've been off meds for 7 years, and have been "undetectible" for years. Though under the new standards I am low, but detectible. It all depends on what the numbers really are. Now it is under 500, IIRC. I am under 1500.

[TigerMilner]

My immunologist thinks I will be able to go off meds after a year or two. Depends entirely on how advanced a case is when treatment begins. Mine was caught early, i.e., less than 6 months from infection. It takes the virus 6 months to a year to invade the latent cd4 cells. That is where they hide and they come back out when meds are discontinued or not taken properly. It is referred to as a "functional cure". My viral load never got over 100K. Undectable means less than 20 parts per million. I've never heard of the kind of numbers mentioned above, but they sound like cd4 cell counts.

[bearbandit]

6 months is news to me. I would have taken Bareconfessions' numbers to be low viral loads rather than CD4 counts. Where the barrier is between detectable and undetectable depends on where you live and when the test was done. I remember when <500 was undetectable in the UK, now it's <40. As the sensitiveity of the VL test increases so will the undetectable line get lower.

It's possible, but rare, for someone with HIV to be undetectable without meds, though I've never heard of it happening after treatment. There are two rare groups: elite controllers, who although they show HIV antibodies show no disease progression whatsoever (a friend of mine was diagnosed at around the same time as me, 26 years ago, and is an elite controller), though nothing is known about their infectivity as VL in semen is different to blood VL, which is the one measured. The other group is long-term non-progressors, who without meds show a minimum of viral activity, maybe up to a thousand or two VL (remember the scale is logarithmic) and near normal CD4 counts.

[TigerMilner]

It is new information. From AIDS 2012 in July. Alot of new information came out of this years conference. It used to be that you didn't even start treatment til cd4 cells went below 500. Now the recommendation is all patients begin as soon as diagnosed. That first six months is critical as far as long term goes. I drive three hours to see my Immunologist because he is a noted expert in the field. He is a "write the book" type of Doctor, not a "by the book" type. I do have a friend who is a long-term non progressor. He takes no meds and has been undetectable for over 12 years. It affects everyone differently. The VL test I take states that undetectable is <20. You are right about the sensitivity of different tests.

I find Poz.com and AiDSmeds.com to be reliable resources for the latest information. Here is a link to an article that talks about what barebandit is referring to. The CDC website has the definitive information, but I find it to be so scientific that I can't understand it. http://www.poz.com/articles/Steven_Deeks_cure_2746_23124.shtml

[GermanFucker]

I have a fuck bud (who I just fucked) who says he's undetectable but says he's gone off his meds. He says he hasn't told his docs he went off the meds but every time they test him he comes up undetectable. I know guys can have low viral loads without meds but is it possible to be "undetectable" without them?

In short: yes, but it's very rare. It's estimated that around 1 in 500 patients are so called elite controllers. It's also rare as these guys because of their genetic make-up usually don't get infected (not immune, but highly resistant to HIV).