Look up the list price on HIV meds

[Pozlover1]

They START at about $3,000 a month. That’s $100 a day (if you can’t do math). That would logically mean  AT LEAST criminalization for Stealthing, all the way past Gifting and deep into Chasing if they are paying the costs. Maybe Governments welcome the population reduction, particularly among Blacks, Pervs and especially Black Pervs, and will simply refuse treatment as soon as the numbers reach a certain level. 

[Guest hungandmean]

Uhhhhh... super yikes. This isn't about population reduction and bring up black peeps is an ultra yikes. 

1. Medication prices are negotiated with our governments. With my country it's understood insurance pays 90% ... so you should charge 10k if you want 1k a month. This system is predatory but also within my country not really a big deal because we get free healthcare and out of pocket expenses cap at around $500 for most people.

2. The pricing of drugs is insane. There is a Hep C treatment in the US that is approx $70,000 and is $7,000 in India. It's cheaper to fly to India and stay in a hotel and get the treatment than it is on any current US treatment plan.

3. Most HIV medication is actually controlled by a very small amount of charities.... the Clinton Foundation and the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. If you want some treatment from the Gates foundation in Africa -- there is credible research that suggests their vaccines will sterilize you. They have antigens in their vaccines that prevent pregnancy.

4. In my country a months course of anti retrovirals can be $16,000.... but its all free because its a public health concern. The price of HIV meds is political because the charities in charge of distributing them where theyre most needed act as gate keepers 

[ErosWired]

On 11/17/2019 at 8:50 AM, hungandmean said:

In my country a months course of anti retrovirals can be $16,000.... but its all free because its a public health concern

No. It isn’t free. It’s not free in your country, it’s not free in the United States, it’s not free in Africa, it’s not free anywhere in the world. You may walk out of the pharmacy with your meds without having to open your wallet, but someone is going to pay.

Pharmaceutical manufacturers are not charities - they’re profit-making enterprises beholden to their shareholders, and they trade in human suffering. Why do they charge such astronomical sums for life-saving HIV medications? Because they can - and those afflicted have no choice but to pay, or die. But the insurance industry would rather pay for medicine than hospital stays (if they have to pay at all), so they agree to eat some of that. But where does that money come from? Everybody else with a policy. Then there are government programs (less so in America, more so in the enlightened world), but where does the money for that come from? Taxpayers.

But what, you say, about the big charities like the Gates Foundation, giving away meds at their expense? Whose expense? Bill Gates didn’t print his own money. That money came from the millions of customers of Microsoft. Gates is just redistributing it.

So basically, your and my “free” HIV pill (I don’t pay anything at the drugstore either, thank God, or mine would bankrupt me within a year) is subsidized by the rest of the population around us, whether they think about it or not, whether they like it or not.

Nothing is ever free. Someone always pays.

[TTFN]

I wonder how many formulas for the actual cure of various diseases including hiv are locked away in drug company vaults.

They make a lot more money selling a lifetime of control than they would an outright cure.

[Pozlover1]

12 minutes ago, TTFN said:

I wonder how many formulas for the actual cure of various diseases including hiv are locked away in drug company vaults.

They make a lot more money selling a lifetime of control than they would an outright cure.

A great question. 

[Guest hungandmean]

10 hours ago, ErosWired said:

No. It isn’t free. It’s not free in your country, it’s not free in the United States, it’s not free in Africa, it’s not free anywhere in the world. You may walk out of the pharmacy with your meds without having to open your wallet, but someone is going to pay.

Pharmaceutical manufacturers are not charities - they’re profit-making enterprises beholden to their shareholders, and they trade in human suffering. Why do they charge such astronomical sums for life-saving HIV medications? Because they can - and those afflicted have no choice but to pay, or die. But the insurance industry would rather pay for medicine than hospital stays (if they have to pay at all), so they agree to eat some of that. But where does that money come from? Everybody else with a policy. Then there are government programs (less so in America, more so in the enlightened world), but where does the money for that come from? Taxpayers.

But what, you say, about the big charities like the Gates Foundation, giving away meds at their expense? Whose expense? Bill Gates didn’t print his own money. That money came from the millions of customers of Microsoft. Gates is just redistributing it.

So basically, your and my “free” HIV pill (I don’t pay anything at the drugstore either, thank God, or mine would bankrupt me within a year) is subsidized by the rest of the population around us, whether they think about it or not, whether they like it or not.

Nothing is ever free. Someone always pays.

Except they are charities. The biggest leg-work, leaps, and bounds of most medication research is actually taxpayer and publically funded. Most HAART / Anti retroviral therapies were paid for by taxpayers - until the final stages where no regulation allows corporations to patent the drugs.

Then those drugs, we all paid for, suddenly are owned by corporations. And yeah, there is a cost to produce and a cost to create that should be considered - but to think that these drugs should cost $16000 is a farce because we already paid for all the research and legwork for them to exist.

Of course they aren't "Free," but that wasn't what was at the spirit of my comment. I mean that within a countries healthcare this cost isn't passed on to a patient and if a drug can cost $70,000 here and $7000 in India the evidence is overwhelming that there's no reason something tax payers funded the research on should cost what it does. 

Bill Gates, this year, reclaimed his title as the richest man on the planet. This is 10 years post him claiming he'd give his wealth away. He doubled his worth since he made that claim. That dude isn't redistributing a fucking thing. 

The last post I read on this site was from you - and it talked about you surviving the AIDS crisis - and you're going to sit here and contemplate the personal cost, the financial costs, of governments and individual taxpayers because life saving medication we have paid for already isn't as free as my message alluded to? 

And in the next breathe here admitting the cost of it - something you already paid for through your taxes and quite frankly the blood, sweat, tears, and corpses of our peers - would RUIN you if it was put on you......

but it still isn't free? Who the fucks side are you on? 

[ErosWired]

33 minutes ago, hungandmean said:

Of course they aren't "Free," but that wasn't what was at the spirit of my comment. I mean that within a countries healthcare this cost isn't passed on to a patient and if a drug can cost $70,000 here and $7000 in India the evidence is overwhelming that there's no reason something tax payers funded the research on should cost what it does. 

Setting aside the more personal thrusts of your rant, I wasn’t addressing the spirit of your original post - a matter subject to interpretation - but rather its plain language.

No, none of the big pharma companies are charities. None of them are 501(c) nonprofits of any stripe, and the fact that they consume charity and taxpayer dollars  for their R&D and still charge such sums ought to outrage every thinking citizen. And it underscores my point that someone, somewhere, is going to pay, because it means they’re making taxpayers pay through the nose for what they already paid to make.

As to the rest of your reply, I absolutely do sit here and contemplate the cost to governments and individual taxpayers, because every time I walk out of that drugstore with my bag of thousands of dollars worth of “free” medicine, I am acutely aware that I’m critically dependent on the financial sacrifice of other people. I can’t carry my own weight, can no longer be responsible for my own problem without relying on this social network. And I’m trouble by it - even though as a taxpayer I also contribute to the social support, I feel that I benefit more than my share.

1 hour ago, hungandmean said:

Who the fucks side are you on? 

Whose side am I on? What a strange question. Not everything is partisan. I am against the Enemy Virus.

[Pozlover1]

7 minutes ago, ErosWired said:

Setting aside the more personal thrusts of your rant, I wasn’t addressing the spirit of your original post - a matter subject to interpretation - but rather its plain language.

No, none of the big pharma companies are charities. None of them are 501(c) nonprofits of any stripe, and the fact that they consume charity and taxpayer dollars  for their R&D and still charge such sums ought to outrage every thinking citizen. And it underscores my point that someone, somewhere, is going to pay, because it means they’re making taxpayers pay through the nose for what they already paid to make.

As to the rest of your reply, I absolutely do sit here and contemplate the cost to governments and individual taxpayers, because every time I walk out of that drugstore with my bag of thousands of dollars worth of “free” medicine, I am acutely aware that I’m critically dependent on the financial sacrifice of other people. I can’t carry my own weight, can no longer be responsible for my own problem without relying on this social network. And I’m trouble by it - even though as a taxpayer I also contribute to the social support, I feel that I benefit more than my share.

Whose side am I on? What a strange question. Not everything is partisan. I am against the Enemy Virus.

Unlike some people, you can do math. Be aware but don’t have unwarranted guilt. Are you starting wars with false flags? Are you dronestriking babies from the comfort of a trailer at the behest of the Banking Cartel? Making land mines? Doing Adrenochrome and cocaine while funding a surveillance network for everyone else?  I feel some guilt over Fearless Leader Trump’s deportations, but the incomprehensibly complicated Dream Act was simply a ruse to keep them an enslaved demographic, a trick, not a viable welcome.
In the overall scheme of things on a world run by Sarah, taking free meds is miniscule. The money goes back into the economy. 

[Daddycumbucket]

Why don't you guys watch 'house of numbers '. You can find it on YouTube.

Puts an interesting take on all things HIV.

Love to hear your comments. 

[Guest hungandmean]

1 hour ago, ErosWired said:

Setting aside the more personal thrusts of your rant, I wasn’t addressing the spirit of your original post - a matter subject to interpretation - but rather its plain language.

No, none of the big pharma companies are charities. None of them are 501(c) nonprofits of any stripe, and the fact that they consume charity and taxpayer dollars  for their R&D and still charge such sums ought to outrage every thinking citizen. And it underscores my point that someone, somewhere, is going to pay, because it means they’re making taxpayers pay through the nose for what they already paid to make.

As to the rest of your reply, I absolutely do sit here and contemplate the cost to governments and individual taxpayers, because every time I walk out of that drugstore with my bag of thousands of dollars worth of “free” medicine, I am acutely aware that I’m critically dependent on the financial sacrifice of other people. I can’t carry my own weight, can no longer be responsible for my own problem without relying on this social network. And I’m trouble by it - even though as a taxpayer I also contribute to the social support, I feel that I benefit more than my share.

Whose side am I on? What a strange question. Not everything is partisan. I am against the Enemy Virus.

And when you sit there and contemplate your impact on society - weighed against your contributions - you don't absolutely see what a farce this system we're in is? That our tax dollars go towards the R & D of life saving medication and then a corporation can swoop in and reap the benefits of it? 

If we're, as a community, being fucked that hard by capitalism.... Sure the system isn't free but how are you not mad at the system? How do you not see how it's designed to reap a massive reward and the damage left behind? And *how* do you nit-pick what I said about whether meds are free? 

Absolutely ,it isn't free. But the fact that is the detail that you got hung up on......... or the fact you feel a certain way about reaping the benefits of system that isn't just fucking you over - has enabled a pandemic and genocide within our community - And you.... you're worried about the definition of free meds and feeling you've reaped more than you've contributed....

........ Not everyone has the same access to life saving medication that we do. SO when I ask who's side you're on you should perhaps wake the fuck up and realize that not every poz person is reaping the same benefit of free life saving medication as you and I *AND THE FACT YOU APPARENTLY LIVED THROUGH THE AIDS CRISIS MAKES ME WANT TO FUCKING SHAKE YOU FOR BEING SUCH A FUCKING BOOT LICKER YOUVE APPARENTLY NOT REALIZED THERE ARE SIDES TO BE CHOSEN HERE and if I know better than you fucking should too.* 

 

[Guest hungandmean]

58 minutes ago, Pozlover1 said:

Unlike some people, you can do math. Be aware but don’t have unwarranted guilt. Are you starting wars with false flags? Are you dronestriking babies from the comfort of a trailer at the behest of the Banking Cartel? Making land mines? Doing Adrenochrome and cocaine while funding a surveillance network for everyone else?  I feel some guilt over Fearless Leader Trump’s deportations, but the incomprehensibly complicated Dream Act was simply a ruse to keep them an enslaved demographic, a trick, not a viable welcome.
In the overall scheme of things on a world run by Sarah, taking free meds is miniscule. The money goes back into the economy. 

As of yesterday - the Trump Admin will deport refugees to Guatemala / without ever seeing a lawyer.

Listen we have a difference of opinion and this will be the last time I directly response to you -

But this will lead to genocide. The massive amount of kids separated already meet the guidelines from the UN for genocide. Obama started the process, many of the staff are the same - but it doesn't matter. We are here now, the policies are advancing.

But this "Everyone is shitty, the government has always sucked," is a super easy position from the safety of your own home. And it's gross.

[think before following links] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/trump-administration-deport-asylum-guatemala-lawyers-border

[ErosWired]

7 minutes ago, hungandmean said:

you don't absolutely see what a farce this system we're in is? That our tax dollars go towards the R & D of life saving medication and then a corporation can swoop in and reap the benefits of it? 

I said precisely that - reread the second paragraph of my last post.

The rest of your screed is a combination of your own anger mashed up with your assumptions about me, who you you do not know but nonetheless feel free to tell how I “should” think and feel.

I understand that you have strong views on this matter, and I will not attempt to discourage them; I do, however, stand by my comments. I will only add that no amount of name-calling is going to earn my respect.

[Pozlover1]

36 minutes ago, hungandmean said:

As of yesterday - the Trump Admin will deport refugees to Guatemala / without ever seeing a lawyer.

Listen we have a difference of opinion and this will be the last time I directly response to you -

But this will lead to genocide. The massive amount of kids separated already meet the guidelines from the UN for genocide. Obama started the process, many of the staff are the same - but it doesn't matter. We are here now, the policies are advancing.

But this "Everyone is shitty, the government has always sucked," is a super easy position from the safety of your own home. And it's gross.

[think before following links] [think before following links] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/trump-administration-deport-asylum-guatemala-lawyers-border

I have a similar distaste for the Deportations. If you have a solution I’d be ecstatic to read it. As I have mentioned I think a good future at this point would be total independence of the States, and let people choose one that suits them. 

[Danthebttmman57]

The medical system in the us is a mess period. 

The pharm system is an even bigger mess. 

Answer on immigration— give everybody a green card and a social security card & tell them “ welcome now work like the rest of us and pay your bills like the rest of us.” 

NOTHING IS FREE !!!!!!!’n

[Pozlover1]

17 minutes ago, Danthebttmman57 said:

The medical system in the us is a mess period. 

The pharm system is an even bigger mess. 

Answer on immigration— give everybody a green card and a social security card & tell them “ welcome now work like the rest of us and pay your bills like the rest of us.” 

NOTHING IS FREE !!!!!!!’n

There may be Governments that can be trusted with health care. NOT THIS ONE.
This one stole the Social Security Trust Fund to buy votes with welfare and invade every country on the planet, either openly or covertly. This continues.

They sprayed plutonium on the housing projects in St Louis and gave syphillis to a similar demographic in Alabama just to see what it does.
We only found out 20 years later. They are fluoridating our water to sedate us and spraying stuff from airplanes as we speak.

Several insurance companies competing to skim off your money for health care and arguing with the drug companies and doctors over their prices seems to be working fairly well.

I agree on the Green Cards. If your feet are on US soil you are a Citizen as far as I am concerned. We should deport the US Congress.