Cheating 101

[BootmanLA]

1 minute ago, BareLover666 said:

That is something between both partners/lovers and not something anyone else is in any position in to judge over, unless physical or mental violence is used on someone who can't defend him- or herself.

This is just about sex and not really that important in the end.

I think that's horsecrap. We live in a world where we have to all interact with each other, and while we have laws to regulate some interpersonal behavior, we rely HEAVILY on customs of decent behavior to fill in all the gaps where the law can't reach (either effectively, or not at all). We hold doors for older people, or people whose arms are full of packages. We step aside on a sidewalk for someone coming through in a wheelchair who can't herself  turn sideways to take up less room. We let that wheelchair user get onto public transit first so that the bus or train doesn't leave them stranded repeatedly, since we can move faster after they're aboard and still make it on. We let the disabled have priority for seating on that transit. I could come up with a thousand examples of things we expect decent human beings to do even when they're not mandated by law, or even when they're mandated but can't be enforced readily.

If we normalize people breaking their word and cheating in relationships because it's "hot" - if we say "not my business" and treat those shitholes as though they were decent people - we debase our society as a whole. We tell people that it's okay to do whatever you want, no matter who you hurt, if you can find some self-justifying reason to do it. That's a world I don't think most of us want to live in.

And look - I'm not moralizing that sex is bad, or sex with lots of people is bad, or anything like that. I'm for people honestly enjoying themselves as much as they want. But not at the expense of lying to someone about behavior about which you've expressly promised otherwise.

[BootmanLA]

9 minutes ago, BareLover666 said:

This is just about sex and not really that important in the end.

No. That's the point. The point is that cheaters promise something *MORE* than sex - that is, monogamy - to a partner and then do something else. YOU may not care whether a partner is monogamous, and that's fine. In such a case, it's not cheating.

It's no different, really, than (for instance) going into a business partnership with someone agreeing to split the profits 50/50, but then padding the expenses with side payments that end up in your pocket so that profits are lower and you end up with more than 50% of the actual profit. You make an agreement, you stick to it, or you end the agreement. Cheating on the agreement makes you a sleazy person.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, BootmanLA said:

If we normalize people breaking their word and cheating in relationships because it's "hot" - if we say "not my business" and treat those shitholes as though they were decent people - we debase our society as a whole. We tell people that it's okay to do whatever you want, no matter who you hurt, if you can find some self-justifying reason to do it. That's a world I don't think most of us want to live in.

Possibly now I get why we have a difference of opinion.
Your 'normal' is a monogamous relationship why I'm polyamorous. 

And I agree with you that being honest with your partner or lover is the best policy and the adult thing to do.
Sometimes that just doesn't work though.

But I get that the thrill of cheating when you're not allowed to adds to the joy. And just as long as the OP is careful about HIV and STD's it's up to him. And if he's hot I'd shag him.

[BootmanLA]

Just now, BareLover666 said:

Possibly now I get why we have a difference of opinion.
Your 'normal' is a monogamous relationship why I'm polyamorous. 

And I agree with you that being honest with your partner or lover is the best policy and the adult thing to do.
Sometimes that just doesn't work though.

But I get that the thrill of cheating when you're not allowed to adds to the joy. And just as long as the OP is careful about HIV and STD's it's up to him. And if he's hot I'd shag him.

You're jumping to conclusions, and they're wrong.

What my "normal" is doesn't matter. I'm saying that *IF* a person makes an agreement, he should stick to it. If he wants an open relationship, polyamory, or whatever, that's fine. I'm all in favor of people living the lives they want - but he needs to be HONEST about it with his partner, and if the partner doesn't want that, they shouldn't be partners. You seem to think that if a guy wants sex bad enough, it's okay for him to lie about it to the person who supposedly is the most important person in his life.

For someone who says sex isn't that important. you sure seem to be placing a huge priority on the "right" of a cheating asshole to have sex when that's a violation of the agreement he has with his partner. Sounds like sex is a lot more important than you want to admit.

And frankly: if the asshole is willing to lie to his partner about having outside sex, why in the fuck would you think he's going to have enough sense of right and wrong to be careful about HIV and STD's and possibly infecting his partner? If you'll lie about one thing, you'll like about others.

[Guest]

On 7/25/2021 at 8:46 AM, Rye656 said:

Have approached the subject of threesomes, open relation ship, etc with bf and he’s not down so I know that’s off the table

@BootmanLA: If you cared about anyone else as much as about yourown  moral high-ground, you might have made the effort to what the OP has actually written and is saying in between the lines.
It's not that hard. He tried talking and you and I are not privy to the functioning of their relationship.

[BootmanLA]

1 minute ago, BareLover666 said:

@BootmanLA: If you cared about anyone else as much as about yourown  moral high-ground, you might have made the effort to what the OP has actually written and is saying in between the lines.
It's not that hard. He tried talking and you and I are not privy to the functioning of their relationship.

I read what he wrote. I can read between the lines. He's in a relationship. His partner wants it kept closed. The OP made that crystal clear. The OP is turned on by cheating on his partner - violating the terms of that relationship. That, too, the OP has made crystal clear. I don't have to be "privy to the functioning of their relationship" to take what he made expressly clear. He's looking for justification to cheat.

You seem to think it's "moralizing" to ask people to be honest. Apparently, you don't think honesty is a good thing, right? 

As I said earlier: the problem is not that wanting an open relationship is wrong, or bad, or immoral. I'm all for the OP being as big a slut as he wants to be. But he can't be in an honest relationship with his partner and do that. He needs to choose.

But I do get this much: clearly, you don't think keeping one's word is an important thing.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

I read what he wrote. I can read between the lines. He's in a relationship. His partner wants it kept closed. The OP made that crystal clear. The OP is turned on by cheating on his partner - violating the terms of that relationship. That, too, the OP has made crystal clear. I don't have to be "privy to the functioning of their relationship" to take what he made expressly clear. He's looking for justification to cheat.

You seem to think it's "moralizing" to ask people to be honest. Apparently, you don't think honesty is a good thing, right? 

As I said earlier: the problem is not that wanting an open relationship is wrong, or bad, or immoral. I'm all for the OP being as big a slut as he wants to be. But he can't be in an honest relationship with his partner and do that. He needs to choose.

But I do get this much: clearly, you don't think keeping one's word is an important thing.

You can think of me whatever you want dear.

Apparently one party lays down the law and the other party should do as he's told or break of the entire relationship.
I don't like ultimatums or emotional blackmail in any relationship. Neither am I a fan of selfishness depriving someone you care about some fun. 

In my experience when this toxicity enters and starts to define a relationship the problem is in most cases an insane amount of insecurity in the partner or loved one. That's why they feel a need to control the other one; Or they feel it lessens their self worth if their partner or loved one is less than perfect.
That can become dangerous if they're need to safe face is placed above the happiness of their loved one/partner.

In other cases it's just that people are stuck with an old fashioned, out-dated and christian or other Abrahamic religion's view of marriage where one is owned by the other. That's why traditional (monogamous) marriage is more like a business-contract with agreements than that it has anything to with love, lust or romance. 
 

[BootmanLA]

5 minutes ago, BareLover666 said:

You can think of me whatever you want dear.

Apparently one party lays down the law and the other party should do as he's told or break of the entire relationship.
I don't like ultimatums or emotional blackmail in any relationship. Neither am I a fan of selfishness depriving someone you care about some fun. 

In my experience when this toxicity enters and starts to define a relationship the problem is in most cases an insane amount of insecurity in the partner or loved one. That's why they feel a need to control the other one; Or they feel it lessens their self worth if their partner or loved one is less than perfect.
That can become dangerous if they're need to safe face is placed above the happiness of their loved one/partner.

In other cases it's just that people are stuck with an old fashioned, out-dated and christian or other Abrahamic religion's view of marriage where one is owned by the other. That's why traditional (monogamous) marriage is more like a business-contract with agreements than that it has anything to with love, lust or romance. 
 

You're making my arguments for me.

All the points you make literally SCREAM, at the top of your voice, that the OP and his partner want different things and shouldn't be together. But you twist that, somehow, into making it the responsibility of the partner to accept his partner's wishes. You're invalidating the wants and needs of the partner, insisting that he should sublimate his own preferences to please his partner, with ZERO suggestion that the OP has any responsibility to do the same in return - because YOU think your polyamory and/or open relationships are superior to other people's monogamous ones. 

I'm giving both partners credit for knowing what they want and standing up for it. I'm saying that if they can't come to an honest agreement on what the relationship should be, they should end it, as amicably as possible, and move on and find new partners who are more amenable and like-minded.

Your solution seems to be to advise the OP to cheat and have as much sex as he wants and his partner just has to put up with being lied to. I think that's very revealing of your character. Contrary to what you seem to imagine, I'm not judging the OP for wanting more sex than he can get with one partner; I'm judging him for being a lying skunk about it.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

You're making my arguments for me.

You're welcome.

Don't call the OP names like "lying skunk". It's not nice.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Guest

[BootmanLA]

34 minutes ago, BareLover666 said:

You're welcome.

Don't call the OP names like "lying skunk". It's not nice.

But "trap-hole" is nice? My. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, BootmanLA said:

But "trap-hole" is nice? My. 

No but as in that thread you where heaping blame and guilt onto someone who already was on PrEP and still extremely anxious about having caught HIV I don't give a rats ass if you kill yourself.

Actually I do care.
DM me if you need help.

Hail 😈

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

But "trap-hole" is nice? My. 

The thread @BootmanLA is referring to.

I really don't feel judging sexual conduct within out outside any relationship is not helpful to anyone if one isn't part of that relationship.

 

Where angels fear to tread fools rush in.

[BootmanLA]

Just now, BareLover666 said:

The thread @BootmanLA is referring to.

I really don't feel judging sexual conduct within out outside any relationship is not helpful to anyone if one isn't part of that relationship.

 

Where angels fear to tread fools rush in.

Then he shouldn't post questions here asking advice, should he? If nobody here can know, what's the point of asking? He CHOSE to ask, he got answers. Funny how lots of people agreed with my approach that lying and cheating is wrong, but you only chose MY response to attack. 

[BootmanLA]

6 minutes ago, BareLover666 said:

No but as in that thread you where heaping blame and guilt onto someone who already was on PrEP and still extremely anxious about having caught HIV I don't give a rats ass if you kill yourself.

Actually I do care.
DM me if you need help.

Hail 😈

You completely imagined that I was heaping blame and guilt on the OP in that thread. I gave him SERIOUS advice that you can't trust people to tell the truth when they say they're negative (as he'd already learned!), that he's better off considering undetectable people rather than trying to sero-sort for negative, and so forth. Just because I didn't coddle him and say "there, there, it'll all be fine" (which is nice, but completely unhelpful as guidance for the future), you want to assume I'm trying to blame him. Plenty of other people were taking the comforting role; I was giving him valuable advice on not getting into that situation again.

If there was any blame in that OP's situation it was on the guy who claimed to be negative but who really had no idea and was un-medicated poz. I'm not blaming the OP for having had sex with him. You just imagined in your fevered brain that's what I was saying.

But don't worry, I have zero interest in DM'ing you for anything whatsoever.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

Then he shouldn't post questions here asking advice, should he? If nobody here can know, what's the point of asking? He CHOSE to ask, he got answers. Funny how lots of people agreed with my approach that lying and cheating is wrong, but you only chose MY response to attack. 

I choose to attack your postions because with you being a Senior Member with a high number of bonus-points young and impressionable members might be under the misguided impression you make sense.
Glad you asked.