HMR89

Hmm. Okay, I'll agree to disagree.

You guys wouldn't want your friends or others to look out for you? You wouldn't want someone to inform you about a decision you're making so that you could make an INFORMED decision? This doesn't sound wrong to you in any way?

BBZH I agree with your stance about a person's health being his own responsibility but that does not mean that if you could stop his health from getting affected, that you shouldn't inform them. You took your guy's load two years ago and you are now living with HIV and are prepared to live that way because you HAVE BEEN infected. What about the other guys that would sleep with "this guy"? You're looking at YOUR situation too closely. What about the other few guys he would infect who would then, infect others and so on and so forth?

This isn't about "this guy" being nice or not- it's about allowing others to make informed decisions. You may be fine with your life choices but try looking at this from the point of view of a person who isn't informed, isn't ready for HIV, doesn't WANT to get HIV and is sleeping with someone who may well be lying about his status (and sleeps with him in the heat of the moment).

To me, it's equivalent to letting a rapist/murderer/criminal run loose by omission- you KNOW they are how and who they are and I'd think it my responsibility to inform others of this guy's HIV status- regardless of whether or not they WANT TO GET HIV.

I would've actually told him. This isn't a light matter especially if the other guy isn't prepared for this or doesn't want HIV. And if 'this guy' isn't nice you have more reason to tell the ex bf.

I was just suggesting his mindset could have been such. I wasn't advocating for or against him I'm listing these for you. Bisexual/gay men who are married and love their families do have irrational fears. We've all seen such people. Yes, he may have made such suggestions but then, you'd know how he is seeing as how you've dealt with him.

Plus, you just said that he made you use used condoms, etc. It may be irrational but it's definitely a possibility. And from what you've stated I think it's a very likely one. I'm not trying to prove to you how far-fetched his fears may be- I'm trying to think from HIS point of view and from HIS point of view the fear, perhaps far-fetched, is one that I would have had if I were in the same position as him.

I'd have no qualms with the pillow over my face

If you REALLY want to know, try asking him but do it playfully and see how his body language changes. Don't be afraid to go a little psychotic either. I test people intentionally and unintentionally that way ALL the time and I always end up getting answers

OR get him REALLY horned up and pull away and then, ask him. He'd definitely give you his answer because he'd really want to get done with the QnA and get to the fucking bit.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here but I'm gonna try thinking from his point of view here:

If I'm a straight/bi married guy, with kids (who would, arguably, be *****'s spawn) and I'm 50 years old the one reason I'd have for not wanting to cum in a guy is because:

1. I'd be scared that he could collect it and prove that it's MY cum and use that proof to turn my family against me if he fell for me

2. Because I may be carrying something that I don't want others to know of

3. If I said "Nah, I don't mess around like that" that could be because of the two factors mentioned above AND/OR because I suspect I have something that I'm not sure of aand don't WANT to be sure of because I'm scared of getting tested.

Bearbandit- the guy's bi and he knows he'd be losing his family. I don't think the emotional connectivity part matters much. I think it's something much more selfish.

I know I'd enjoy a top who'd like to fuck hard

Yeah I agree with him though ^^

I can understand your point of view where the bad tasting cum was an issue but, I mean, you were there to get fucked at the end of the day. If you couldn't take ONE hard fucker then, what guarantee is there you would've been able to take on the other two guys??

I find older guys to be better in that respect- better emotional connectivity and chemistry.

I'm one of the guys that some people (who know I'm gay) are surprised by when they learn I'm into WILD and MAD sex. I've found that the more innocent a guy looks, the wilder he is. Case in point

Apparently most of you have cummed when riding your tops but do you feel that NOT whacking off a few days prior to the fuck helps? Or does that not matter?

Haha, wow, so most of us here DO like to moan Tops? I haven't seen too many responses from too many tops/vers guys in here.

yeah I agree with your stance/view. I was just wondering why anyone would fantasize it but I guess a fantasy is more of a self-imposed justification to avoid blame/guilt/emotional negativity of any sort. Then, of course, there are people who want an experience similar to rape but would feel very different if they were ACTUALLY raped in the truest sense of the word.

I'd be and AM monogamous. I dunno whether or not other people here feel or get this but I do feel the emotional aspect kind of adds to the excitement sexually.

This happened to me 3 times with the same person. I was SO angry but then, I just rolled my eyes and was like whatever.. PISSES ME OFF.

TigerMilner: I've never been called a BUTCH bottom but my approach is a lot like yours. I do like to be the bottom in the relationship and I like to be in control too. I like sharing it with my partner too but I wanna be a LITTLE more in control emotionally.

Fred had broken up with me and I was at Ian's place. Ian was Fred's best friend and him and I had become extremely close because he helped me so much when Fred and I were together. There was always this sort of magnetism between Ian and I. I really wanted to get fucked by him and I knew he wanted the same. And I've always loved getting fucked extremely hard.

Ian was lying down on his bed, face up and I was in a playful mood. I'm EXTREMELY playful btw, generally too. So I moved up and said "Ian?". He looked back at me and smiled and said "Yes?". My lips were nearly touching his but I smiled and looked away and pulled away. Ian laughed. He went to the bathroom and came back. I was kinda tired. I'd cried the whole day cuz of what Fred had done- he broke up with me so randomly.

Anyway, Ian looked at me now. I was lying down the same way he was before but my legs were open. He looked at me and said "Harry?". I laughed because I knew what he was doing. "Yes, Ian?", I asked.

He moved up. And kissed me. I kissed him back. My body was so cold before- keep in mind that it was winter time and I have a small frame so I feel colder than the average person would.

My body warmed up. My nipples were erect and as our cocks touched (though they were still in our jeans), I became extremely hard. He grazed his fingers along my torso and bit my lower lip hard till I could taste some blood. He pulled me closer by putting his hand under the arch of my back as I was lying down. I moaned and groaned. He instantly pulled my hair back and hard and kissed my neck while touching the place between the anus and the testicles. FUCKKKKKK I WAS SO HORNY NOW.

I pulled him closer, took off my jacket and my shirt. He was smiling and we both knew we were getting what we wanted- each other. So I moved on top of him and kissed him and took his shirt off too. I bit his nipples. He moaned and said "don't bite too hard". I made my way to his armpits with my tongue and licked them and the sides. He loved it so I kept at it and bit them a little too.

He held me by the waist and put himself on top of me. He took off my jeans and socks and underwear (I have a MAJOR foot fetish). He kissed me in my inner thighs and licked the place between the anus and the testicles (perineum). I moaned even louder. No one did this to me. He then ran his tongue over the air above my asshole and touched it lightly. Holy FUCK I couldn't even feel his tongue but I just wanted all of this and FINALLY, I was about to sleep with a MAN.

He then, ran his tongue over my asshole and literally ate it. I was moaning louder than I'd EVER EVER moaned in the past. In my head I was like FUCK ME FUCK ME HARD. But I didn't want to ruin things.

He licked my legs and bit them and then, licked my ankles and sucked my toes and my feet. He made me turn around and licked my hamstrings and bit my ass and my back. He touched my neck with his fingertips. I made him lie down and kissed him and rubbed his cock against my asshole to tease him. I blew him. At the same time he MADE me do it by pulling my hair. When he let me go, I licked his thighs and blew him some more till I did the same thing he did to my feet.

"Should we do it?", he asked me.

"Please, yes".

He got the lube and rubbed some on his cock and fingered me too so I was lubed up inside. I sat on his cock and rid it. Then, he held my thighs down and kept thrusting. "Ohhhh, unhhhhhh, uffffff" was all I could say. I let myself go completely so that he could do whatever the fuck he wanted. He kept fucking me. "Let's try a different position?". "Sure" he said.

So I lay on my back and he entered me and fucked me hard. His chest's so fucking delicious and hairy. I held his waist with my legs and scratched his back as he kept fucking me. "O MY" was all I could say. He kissed me as he fucked me. I could feel every inch of his cock. He pulled out for a couple of minutes and bit my shoulder till it was blue.

"Different...position. Are you okay?" he asked.

"More than", I laughed.

Now we fucked doggy style. He pulled my hair back SO HARD and it hurt but it also felt SO GOOD. I enjoyed it. He ran his hand over my inner thighs as he did this at some points. I was moaning extremely loud. His thrusts became even faster and they were already hard but they became harder. "O fuck I'm about to CUM", he said.

He finally came and I could feel his delicious cock throbbing inside my asshole. I told him to stay that way so I could whack off and once that was over him and I just went ahead and showered

Hope you enjoy my experience ! I know I did

I don't understand why the bottom needs to be someone who's not butch. I'm kinda balanced in that way and if you meet me you wouldn't be able to tell I'm gay unless I really get comfortable with you but even then, my body language doesn't give it away and I LOVE getting fucked (though I do like topping too). Plus, I love wrapping my legs around my boyfriend's waist till he fucks the HELL out of me. So I'm somewhat dominant in that way.

My boyfriend once asked me if he wanted me to cum in me or ON me. I just yelled "PLEASE INSIDE ME" and when he did I wanted more

I'm extremely sexually satisfied. It basically means when you're content with your sex life. My sex life with my boyfriend's amazing. He fucks the living hell outta me, makes me moan like CRAZY with pain and pleasure. It means GREAT sex. Great sex= quality of sex, frequent= quantity so it depends on you.

Yes, I've achieved it as a bottom. As a top I just want to fuck the living Hell out of the bottom and can go on doing so for a good few hours. I prefer bottoming though.

Could rape fantasies for so many be an excuse- they fantasize about extreme things occurring to them, without them actually being responsible? They would never do XYZ, but in the rape fantasy it is OK- since they cannot consent? While what HMR endured was not fantasy or pleasure- what I think most men hold as a rape scene is the enacting of dark thoughts with a free pass for thinking or living them out

That does make sense: the fact that they fantasize getting raped makes them feel justified to enjoy such an act but deep down even they know that the real act is so much worse so they prefer sticking to the fantasy.

Yes that makes it so much clearer. That's what i wanted to understand though. To be submissive, paradoxically, in the way that "hyper-sensitive botts" want to be, is a choice so it would make sense for one to be turned on by such fantasies. The reality isn't anything like the fantasy though. It's just horrible. Thank you for your support .

Yanto48: I like how you term it "gauche." I haven't heard that description in quite sometime but it's so true. I too have had the "I want to be smothered by your weight," or the "your weight makes me feel safe," and of course I have also heard the "you're so not my type but all I want to do is fuck and you're the only one here." The worst however happened recently. I was down in Palm Springs with my best friend. The two of us only live a half hour away so after a good time and some cocktails, we were invited to one of the clothing optional resorts by an older gentlemen who's conversation we enjoyed throughout the evening. As all three of us were enjoying the summer night in the pool, a very hot young man walked up and started chatting, then he says to his friends as he's looking directly at me, "I wouldn't want to take that pregnant blond bitches load if he was the last dick standing!" Seriously! What the fuck? Now, my best friend had heard my horror stories before about how gay guys would show no shame in commenting on my weight... And when compared to most I am relatively small. Needless to say, my best friend of 20 years flipped out, got out of the pool and was in this guys face. It was so embarrassing. I just wanted to leave at that point.

In the end, I can't figure out if hot guys really do feel that entitled to the point of where they feel they can comment on weight and other things with no repercussions. Or, have we just grown accustomed to allowing the behavior because it's only 'weight'. It seems to me that fat or weight discrimination is one which has universal approval. It seems that most everyone is comfortable with commenting or discussing someone else's weight in such a disparaging and vulgar manner.

I think it's because such cunts are ALLOWED to treat overweight guys that way. I used to be way overweight and so, I know how you must feel (though no one's ever told me in the past that they wanted to fuck me and go) but all I can say is that stand your ground and DON'T let these fucks affect you. Fat or thin, I'm sure you're a really sweet guy who deserves better than some wannabe saying what this bastard said to you. SUCH a horrible thing to say. Trust me when I say this: karma's gonna get him and BAD

It's a very good question, HMR89. And given the number of guys who believe that a man can't be raped, that it only happens to women and kids, a brave one. I'll start by saying I've been raped twice: once at nineteen and again about ten years later. The way the law stood in the UK at the time, the first time had I gone to the police with a complaint about it, I could have been charged with gross indecency, which was the charge used for all parties involved in such a case because I was below the then age of consent. The second time, after the age of consent was lowered, I could have made a complaint of gross indecency (which carries a much lower sentence tariff than rape does). I didn't bother. In a small way, as a counsellor, I helped set in motion the change of UK law that allows for the charge of rape to be laid against a man who rapes another man, and I have to confess to some pride in my involvement in that.

Rape is an abhorrent act, as are murder and mutilation, yet how many of us even as children played war games, playfully committed pretend war atrocities on our friends? My late partner and I used to talk about our playroom saying "cross the threshhold and suspend disbelief". John was a master of sleight of hand, and had a boy with a number of self-destructive fantasies which he managed to fulfil in a safe manner. He pointed something out to me that I'd never realised: when I was bottoming, my words (I don't like gags) are twisted around: I'd say "no" for "yes, please, more". It didn't take an expert to link this back to the twice that I'd been raped. Since that discussion I've always used the traffic light system of stop-words.

Rape fantasies are, for a lot of guys (women too), a way of making the transition from victim to survivor (indeed the UK organisation for men who have suffered (unwanted) sexual abuse is called SurvivorsUK - its founder took the name from a remark I made when I was working with him). There's no doubt in my mind that rape play is edge-play: get it wrong and you could screw someone's head even further. But at the same time, get it right, and it can be therapeutic, allowing one to face up to demons (figuratively speaking) in a way that's otherwise impossible.

It's the same when I write a rape scene in a story: it's rare for me to write in the third person and it's also rare for me to write about situations that I have no experience of. Why include rape scenes? Probably because they're dramatically necessary, but also because they're therapeutic for me (and I'm a long way from that nineteen year old kid, or even the late twenties kid, but it doesn't mean that I don't carry some of their pain with me still), and because I've come to terms with my own experiences that I can eroticise them. (The series I'm writing in Bugchasing fiction carries two rape scenes, though I cheat in that they're performances for a DVD)

Fifteen years ago I used to edit a couple of porn magazines: in other words I wrote the whole damn magazine using different names. It was the height of condom naziism and as I remember (I shorted out a hard drive and found the back up disk scratched to hell and gone: totally unusable) I only ever once mentioned condoms in words along the lines of "you're adults: you can make your own decisions as to what level of safety you want and need" - and this at a time when the first protease inhibitors were just coming out of trials. My own health was on what seemed like a bottomless slope.

Given the ages at which you were raped, this was child abuse, and I'm not surprised at your reaction. Rape is violence expressed through sexual means: for some of us acting out the fantasy is a huge turn-on, while for others, like you, it's horror. This is going to sound horribly condescending, which I don't mean it to , but have you considered counselling to come to terms with what happened in your childhood. I come from a highly dysfunctional family and see a counsellor every few years as a means of having a mental clear-out. If you haven't tried it, it might be an avenue worth trying, especially given how you say you'd react if it happened again. The first time I went crazy, tearing up the room as much as I was able till I was released, the second I went "rabbit in the headlights" just to get it over faster.

I'd welcome any reply from you: I know how repugnant the idea is and the double think you need to get around it. To the best of my knowledge I was the first person in the UK to write on the subject in the gay press in the UK, which is how I've ended up talking to so many guys about it. If you don't want to reply in public, then PM me. I can't promise easy answers, but I believe I can set you on the road to some answers.

Again I'd likee to commend your courage in raising the issue: you've got guts, mister!

Thank you ! I intend on hopefully writing a book on this issue in the near future- once I've got more exposure though. Counselling is something that I have considered but I have healed myself from within over time. I'm much more tolerant and my family's quite dysfunctional too. I've been able to empathize with countless people like myself and while I don't let what happened to me in the past affect me anymore, I do still feel for rape victims and tear up when I think of how others are suffering because of desperate assholes. The only possible thing I may have taken from those incidents is a HORRIBLE temper. I have an EXTREMELY high threshold for pain of any sort and I can endure anything that may come my way.

But then, I read these forums and wonder how one can enjoy something SO CRUEL, you know?