An acceptable case of stealthing

[hungry_hole]

As I wrote in another post I see nothing wrong with stealthing (or lying about status) in sexual situations that are casual, impersonal or anonymous. So let me present to you a case where I think stealthing would not be wrong at all because it falls in the anonymous situation.

This happened at the sauna Steamworks in Toronto. Steamworks is a very good sauna with 2 dark areas. The dark area closer to the front desk has a gloryhole area (not very good), an elevated area for guys who want their cocks sucked, and a dark backroom with a wall of mirrors and a fuck bench. This fuck bench is ideal for cumdumps and many fight for it. When the place is busy it's hard to get on the fuck bench. All you see are silhouettes.

If the bench is taken I enjoy watching slutty bottoms and even help them get loads by luring guys into fucking him. This time there was a bottom taking over the fuck bench but he was insisting on condoms. I would help guys to get it hard enough to stick it in the bottom's hole but he would then pass me a condom and not allow the cock to touch his hole without a condom. Anyone in a dark room with his hole lubed should not demand this or that. He should take whatever comes his way. If not, then get off the bench and allow some real cumdump to get on it.

At the time I didn't say or do anything but if I were now faced by a bottom in a very anonymous situation who insisted in wearing condoms, I would do everything I could to stealth him. And I would not feel bad at all. There has to be places for men who want to live their most secret fetishes.

Stealthing does have it's place.

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

I am not sure even that case presents a justifiable reason. Hogging the fukbench is rude and one might appeal to guys sense of fairness. But passing hiv to someone because they are rude is still the low path.

[einathens]

unacceptable. you don't get to make the decision for him, nor decide what he should or shouldn't expect.

he has the right to insist on condoms. you have the right to decline to fuck him. period

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

I agree einathens. Would be one thing if as part of profile self description we could put something to indicate that one is open to stealthing. Then those wanting to would have clear permission. But to stealth someone because they were rude is not unlike shooting at another car that cut one off. Similar also to rape. I am hopeful that while most of us might be unmitigated pigs in bed, bath, bookstore, park etc; we still commit to maintain civil society.

[rawTOP]

I gotta agree with the others. Just because it's a dark room doesn't mean the guy can't reasonably ask for a condom. Better if tops just walked away making it clear he's not getting much dick unless he's takes it raw.

The only thing that makes some types of stealthing a bit more acceptable is when the top is completely confident they're neg (or undetectable) and hence unable to infect the bottom. I'm not saying those situations are right, but they're less wrong IMHO.

[Guest ff-whole]

I agree with the fact that if the sex is consensual and bareback there is no matter of stealthing. and it is sex, raw, poz or negative but no guarantees... But if one of them is demanding the use of a condom, then stealthing is unaccepted in my opinion.

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

I'm not sure it qualifies as "stealthing" though if both guys are neg (or undet). At least when I think of stealthing; I think in terms of deception about status.

[rawTOP]

I'm not sure it qualifies as "stealthing" though if both guys are neg (or undet). At least when I think of stealthing; I think in terms of deception about status.

Imagine a neg guy who's unjustly paranoid of all poz guys - even undetectable ones. (There are lots of guys out there like that). In that case the undetectable top could stealth the bottom and not really cause any harm. Not saying it's good or right - just saying there's a big difference between that and an unmedicated poz top stealthing a bottom.

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

Yup I do understand that. I tend to define stealthing as secretly putting someone else at risk.

[GreenChaser]

ok, i agree and disagree with parts of this thread.

I tend to define stealthing as secretly putting someone else at risk.

I dissagree with this, in that stealthing is stealthing, weather its putting someone at RISK or not. Stealthing is shooting cum inside a btm who thinks he is protected. if the cum is poz or not is irrelivant, 'cause us negs stealth btms just as much as poz guys do.

now is stealthing right? i dont think my opinion can realy be an athority, but i agree with rawTOP that there is a big different between medicated and unmedicated poz cum in a btm. in the case of a condom natzi bogarting the fuck bench: someone should tell him to give someone else a chance, to share like good little boys and whores do, and it isn't your place as a bystander (not the btm and not even the top in the scenario) to make the decition for someone else... if the top decides on his own to do what he wants with his dick that is his business, and the btm is responsible for protecting his own hole...

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

GreenChaser; we'll probably have to agree to disagree. I think one of the great things about breedingzone is that all opinions can be shared. There is no rule that says we must all agree with each other. I do assume that when you wrote "and it isn't your place as a bystander" you were making a rhetorical reference and not directing at me personally; since I am part of the conversation and was not part of the scene at the baths. I definitely agree that civil behavior includes guys not hogging the fuckbench to the exclusion of everyone else. And while I'm not sympathetic to his plight should some guy convert his hole as a result: I don't believe that is justifiable.

[GreenChaser]

No, i was not pointing you out there bro, i was refering to the rhetorical situation the thread is based on in that he says he would do what he can to make sure the rhetorical btm in question is stealthed.

and i agree the great thing about this site is that we can share our opinions on the matter. and your right we don't all need to agree and that is why i said i am no athority on the subject, just a guy who likes to fuck a raw hole.

[GreenChaser]

i quoted your controbution directly because i directly disagree that stealthy is about risk.

as a neg top who bbs i have to deal with btms who insist on using condoms just as much as poz tops who are asked to use them. i am not saying that i go out of my way to make sure my raw dick gets in their hole (in fact i have never fucked a guy with a condom or fucked a guy who wanted to use a condom- period) but i do tend to lean towards evenings with guys i know i'd have a better chance of injecting my dna into. in the case of stealthing; though: if a guy (poz or neg) is a top and finds a way to get his raw dick inside of and shoot his cum inside a hole that wanted to be cum free, then that guys is a stealther- by MY definition.

[einathens]

i think that it's stealthing when it involves deceit, whether that's lying about your status to a guy who's trying to serosort (including saying you're poz when you're not to a poz top who doesn't want to play with neg guys, as well as poz tops claiming to be neg when they know they're not), using a compromised condom on a bottom who does not want to play raw, or either participant agreeing to play wrapped and then slipping the condom off when the pther guy is too involved to notice the change.

[TigerMilner]

As I wrote in another post I see nothing wrong with stealthing (or lying about status) in sexual situations that are casual, impersonal or anonymous. So let me present to you a case where I think stealthing would not be wrong at all because it falls in the anonymous situation.

There has to be places for men who want to live their most secret fetishes.

Stealthing does have it's place.

Your statement about living out their most secret fetishes includes that bottom who insisted on condoms. Obviously, he was trying to do just that, but didn't want to take the health risks of actually doing it raw. Stealthing is not justified.

I agree that the idea of stealthing is hot, but in reality, it is just wrong to fuck someone raw who asked for a condom. Especially if they think you are using one. It's lying. And you don't have the right to make those decisions for him, stranger or not.