An acceptable case of stealthing

[Guest mndude]

I hate pulling out as well....

He definitely knew I was about to shoot in him because i'm a noisy cummer as well. It was his timing on asking the question that really annoyed me. It's definitely a problem in a small town when everyone tends to assume that everyone else is neg.

[hungry_hole]

I guess what prompted me to write this thread was the idea of a "victim" of stealthing as expressed in the previous post of a friend who pozed after being stealth.

I can accept that stealthing is not an acceptable behavior but at the same time the guy being stealth bares some responsibility and is not just a victim. Especially when this occurs in a darkroom of a sauna.

I like keeping the issue of personal responsibility in mind when it comes to stalthing and HIV-status.

[Snarkybitch]

I like keeping the issue of personal responsibility in mind when it comes to stalthing and HIV-status.

The guy asking for the kind of sex he wants is being responsible. If you (the general you) don't want the same kind of sex, the appropriate response is to move on. It's not like it's hard to find hot guys willing and eager to go bare.

[Fickloch]

Wow! How do I respond to all of this?

First, when I talk about stealthing I don't mean infecting someone with HIV. Unlike many guys in this site, my fetish is with cum and not with HIV. Of course, I know that stealthing increases the risk.

Second, what turns me on about saunas and other anonymous/impersonal sexual settings is that the regular social rules don't apply in the same way. I can stare at someone's cock or in the dark room I can grab someone's ass without being accused of assault. I can also lie in order to fit into someone's fantasy. For instance, I've been asked if I'm a policeman and I've said yes. In other words, for me these places are places of "fantasy" and behaviour deviates from "civil society". In darkrooms the thrill is having sex with "bodies" and "body parts" and not with people. That's why it's called Impersonal Sex. Condemning stealthing in darkrooms in the way it's been expressed here takes away from the thrill of anonymous sex in darkrooms.

Third, I started to bareback almost 20 years ago after I was stealth fucked by someone and I loved it. After that I never looked back. So for me stealthing is a big turn-on.

Sometimes guys want somebody else to make the decision to bareback and ask for a condom but they hope the top won't use it. I've seen this happening. This guy in Steamworks could have been one of these guys. Or he could have been a poz guy who is playing at being HIV-neg.

I don't feel bad about anonymous stealthing because it's easy to avoid by having sex in less anonymous situations. I like having sexual spaces where "everything goes" and two guys don't treat each other like people but like two horny guys with fetishes.

You can't assume what anyone else wants. It's not that complicated. If someone doesn't consent to barebacking then you don't do it. Get it? "stealthing" has no place, other than the FICTION section of this forum and other forums.

[sentry75]

This strikes home a bit. I live in Toronto and Steamworks is my favourite place to have sex. I am familiar with the fuckbench described. I am a Neg Bi Bottom who uses condoms. I can't say I am 100% condom as I have taken bare cock on a few occasions either through stealth or lust, but I don't make a habit of it. I have never taken a load anally. I find bareback incredibly hot (which is why I am here) but I can't take the risks myself.

I have rarely been fucked on that fuckbench precisely because I am not a "no dicks refused" bottom, and so it would be inappropriate fro me to hog the bench, ass up and then start issuing all sorts of qualifications of my actual preferences. "I am lubed, douched and prone in the middle of a public space but please be over 8 inches, uncut and I want to suck you first" would be a ludicrous position to take. But I don't think someone taking a simple stance "You must use a condom to fuck me" is in any way unreasonable.

From my observations bareback sex at places like this in Toronto is much more common than it used to be. That being said I would say that the fucking I observe on that bench is majority with condom. It is not some bizarre outlier. I have seen a lot of bottoms take a guy with a condom who pulls out and is replaced by a guy going in bare with no complaints from anyone so I concede that not all bottoms being fucked with condoms are insisting on condoms. But it is a common scenario.

The only times I have been fucked on that bench was when it was not busy, and either resulted from a guy I was playing with nearby leading me to the empty bench to be fucked, or when I hooked up with a top who was hanging out alone in the room with the fuckbench waiting for a bottom to cum by.

The latter scenario led to my only broken condom experience. It started with me walking into that room to find a black guy with 8.5 uncut inches sitting on the bench reaching out for me. After he got an Extra Large condom, he bent me over and fucked me hard for about 15 minutes. A crowd gathered to watch and the excitement and gasps when he pulled out revealing a tattered ring of rubber at his base and the rest of the condom disappeared in shreds was an incredible moment. I can understand the collective excitement of seeing that. It scared the hell out of me but I found it incredibly hot. I didn't attribute it to stealthing, but I suppose somebody could have "helped" by adding some oil based lube at some point. That would piss me off, and it should be unacceptable. He only fucked me for about a minute after the point (i realized retrospectively) that the condom broke, and he didn't cum in my ass, so I really had no issues with him. And if I had been watching I would have found it incredibly hot. But anybody thinking that intentionally stealthing a bottom is just giving him what he deserves is kinda fucked up.

I am also not averse to someone trying to re-negotiate condom use. Whether it stays fantasy or becomes a challenge to the risks I will take, I have no problem with a guy who is fucking me with a condom trying to convince me to take it bare. But trying to slip off a condom secretly and go in bare, or tampering with a condom to make it fail are just not cool.

[wood]

I guess what prompted me to write this thread was the idea of a "victim" of stealthing as expressed in the previous post of a friend who pozed after being stealth.

I can accept that stealthing is not an acceptable behavior but at the same time the guy being stealth bares some responsibility and is not just a victim. Especially when this occurs in a darkroom of a sauna.

I like keeping the issue of personal responsibility in mind when it comes to stalthing and HIV-status.

That was me.

And heres the major issue with everything you have just said: Its still about complete and open communication. If a fantasy is discussed before hand, thats fine. Whats not fine is keeping quiet just to get your cum in another guys hole just cause you want it there, even if you're HIV/STD free.

[whiteslutbttm]

When you say "I think stealthing is hot" you're actually saying "I think rape is hot".

It's fine as a fantasy, but if you're actually doing it, you're a monster and I hope you end up curb-stomped by an angry bottom and/or go to prison. Seriously, fuck you if you honestly think it's cool to force someone into sex they don't want.

Btw, the bullshit about "he's in a bath-house so he's already consented to whatever"? Fuck you. I really doubt you'd be cool if you were rimming a guy and he suddenly shat in your mouth, then said "oh, why are you here if you're not willing to do anything and everything other guys think is hot?" when you got upset.

This reminds me of assholes who think if a woman wears a skirt, she can't be raped because she's "asking for it".

[Guest mspchaser]

When you say "I think stealthing is hot" you're actually saying "I think rape is hot".

It's fine as a fantasy, but if you're actually doing it, you're a monster and I hope you end up curb-stomped by an angry bottom and/or go to prison. Seriously, fuck you if you honestly think it's cool to force someone into sex they don't want.

Btw, the bullshit about "he's in a bath-house so he's already consented to whatever"? Fuck you. I really doubt you'd be cool if you were rimming a guy and he suddenly shat in your mouth, then said "oh, why are you here if you're not willing to do anything and everything other guys think is hot?" when you got upset.

This reminds me of assholes who think if a woman wears a skirt, she can't be raped because she's "asking for it".

Some of us don't ask about status all of the time. Poz guys have breed me and told me afterward, then I begged them to fuck me again. I wasn't raped, I was stealthed. And I loved it.

[whiteslutbttm]

Some of us don't ask about status all of the time. Poz guys have breed me and told me afterward, then I begged them to fuck me again. I wasn't raped, I was stealthed. And I loved it.

If the bottom is taking cock bareback and doesn't ask your status when you go to mount him, he has no right to bitch if he ends up taking poz loads. I was responding to the posts saying it's cool to force someone to bareback after they have made it clear they want a condom to be worn. Don't pretend it's even close to the same thing, because it's not.

[GreenChaser]

there is a GIANT difference between a poz guy fucking a dude who doesn't ask about status and a poz guy going out of his way to infect someone who has made it clear that they wish to practice safe sex!

[blacknight]

Question for you guys?Do you think its OK for a guy to cum inside a bottom who wanted safe if the the top knows he's neg?

[SpfldPowerBottom]

Yes, I do. (esp. if it's your dick I'm taking at that moment)

[whiteslutbttm]

Question for you guys?Do you think its OK for a guy to cum inside a bottom who wanted safe if the the top knows he's neg?

If the bottom said he wanted condoms to be used when guys fuck him, then a top has two options:

1: Put on a condom and fuck him

2: Go find a bottom who willingly takes it bareback

Whether you are poz or neg doesn't matter, you don't have the right to force or trick someone into sex they don't want. That is RAPE. If he doesn't want cum in his ass and you need to breed someone, then go fuck someone else. Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?

[neg4poz]

whatever with your sermon on the mount whiteslutbttm -

you go to a barbershop you get a haircut - if you dont want to pig then you dont liedown with them - go to fucking choir rehersal - if a bitch dont want her pussy rubbed then she need not run around in a mini skirt without panties - if a fag doesnt want to be barebacked he needs to stay off a group fuck bench in a dark room in the pig room of a bath house! THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER VENUES FOR VANILLA BOYS - MILLIONS OF OTHER VENUES - but you do NOT get to cry rape or stealth with your legs up in the air in a BLACKED OUT ROOM on a GROUP FUCK BENCH in the PIG ROOM of a BATH HOUSE - stay the fuck home!

Edited May 14, 2013 by neg4poz

[whiteslutbttm]

Neg4poz, I don't know if you're just trolling or what. Really, You think I'm preachy for saying not to go around raping people? You're a fucking psycho.

This isn't a situation in which consent was implied, or questionable. The bottom clearly was only consenting to condom sex. You don't get to decide "You're in a bath-house so you have to take cocks bareback" just because he's fucking in a dark room. If it was a private bareback-only party? I'd be one of the first guys saying condom users should get the fuck out or play raw. But unless the bath-house OFFICIALLY has a "no condom" rule (even for just that one room), then guys who play safe have as much right to be there as you. And if guys are wrapping up and fucking him, he's obviously not ruining everyone else's good time. If seeing a condom be worn for sex kills your hard-on, then YOU are the one who needs to fucking leave, not him.