An acceptable case of stealthing

[GreenChaser]

i think that it's stealthing when it involves deceit, whether that's lying about your status to a guy who's trying to serosort (including saying you're poz when you're not to a poz top who doesn't want to play with neg guys, as well as poz tops claiming to be neg when they know they're not), using a compromised condom on a bottom who does not want to play raw, or either participant agreeing to play wrapped and then slipping the condom off when the pther guy is too involved to notice the change.

i agree with ur definition too!

[POZCuriousBoy]

I am new here and just started barebacking not that long ago. I think stealthing is completely wrong. I am negative and hope to stay that way for as long as I can but hopefully forever. I do get turned on by the idea of a poz guy breeding me, but right now I am just curious about it and it is still a jerk off fantasy. Since I now bareback I know I am putting myself at risk. I currently only play with a regular fuckbud, but recently took a raw load from one of his neg friends, so I am going to try serosorting for right now. If I decide that I want to stop serosorting and become a true Chaser, then I would want the enjoyment and thrill of knowing that I am being Pozzed. It would totally suck if someone deliberately took that thrill away from me. Don't lie about being Poz or Neg just so you can bred a neg guy.

[Fickloch]

I am not sure even that case presents a justifiable reason. Hogging the fukbench is rude and one might appeal to guys sense of fairness. But passing hiv to someone because they are rude is still the low path.

I agree. There are no situations where it is just to pass HIV to another person unless they consent to it, either explicitly or implicitly. Basically, "stealthing" has no place.

[GermanFucker]

As I wrote in another post I see nothing wrong with stealthing (or lying about status) in sexual situations that are casual, impersonal or anonymous. So let me present to you a case where I think stealthing would not be wrong at all because it falls in the anonymous situation.

...

Stealthing does have it's place.

With all due respect, but that sounds like one of those silly ideas that are only put out there so one can masturbate to one's own outrageousness. First of all, it's wrong. If somebody insists on condoms one way or the other (having condoms nearby is not insisting, handing them over and checking for rubber is), he makes a clear choice. I choose to fuck raw always, but everyone has the same right to choose for himself.

Secondly it's just weak and cowardly. IMHO the right call would be to just speak the truth: "Dude, barebackers want to have fun here, just walk away instead of spoiling the mood.". In my experience frankness will be rewarded, usually the hottest, funnest guys will soon come after you, because you're not ashamed of what you're doing.

[Snarkybitch]

There has to be places for men who want to live their most secret fetishes.

No. You don't get to put someone else at risk just because you think it'd be really hot. If your sex partner asks for a condom, your choices are either to use the condom or decline to have sex with them. Period. Barebacking's great, but only if all involved are on the same page; if you have to resort to deceit to bed someone, that's a sure sign you probably shouldn't be doing it.

[hungry_hole]

Wow! How do I respond to all of this?

First, when I talk about stealthing I don't mean infecting someone with HIV. Unlike many guys in this site, my fetish is with cum and not with HIV. Of course, I know that stealthing increases the risk.

Second, what turns me on about saunas and other anonymous/impersonal sexual settings is that the regular social rules don't apply in the same way. I can stare at someone's cock or in the dark room I can grab someone's ass without being accused of assault. I can also lie in order to fit into someone's fantasy. For instance, I've been asked if I'm a policeman and I've said yes. In other words, for me these places are places of "fantasy" and behaviour deviates from "civil society". In darkrooms the thrill is having sex with "bodies" and "body parts" and not with people. That's why it's called Impersonal Sex. Condemning stealthing in darkrooms in the way it's been expressed here takes away from the thrill of anonymous sex in darkrooms.

Third, I started to bareback almost 20 years ago after I was stealth fucked by someone and I loved it. After that I never looked back. So for me stealthing is a big turn-on.

Sometimes guys want somebody else to make the decision to bareback and ask for a condom but they hope the top won't use it. I've seen this happening. This guy in Steamworks could have been one of these guys. Or he could have been a poz guy who is playing at being HIV-neg.

I don't feel bad about anonymous stealthing because it's easy to avoid by having sex in less anonymous situations. I like having sexual spaces where "everything goes" and two guys don't treat each other like people but like two horny guys with fetishes.

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

Hungry_hole; given the situations you describe, I don't think stealthing is possible. Bath house, cum dump parties, etc are all places inviting whatever comes along. However, if a bottom makes it clear he won't take it bare (just like I declare I won't take it covered); that should be respected. I know; a real slippery slope here that has been the bane of rape cases for years. The classic "stop.... stop.... stop.... um.... don't stop.... don't stop....). Slippery in that true, in some scenes guys might be looking to give up control, but need to put out a pretense of objection. How do we know?

I tend to agree, what happens at a bathhouse happens. If I were in the opening situation (to this thread); I might wind up uttering a "fuck you... you're takin it bare..." to the guy hogging the bench. But that is still different than trying to make him think it is sheathed, when it isn't.

[einathens]

wow, rationalize much?

what you call regular social rules might not all apply, but in darkrooms and saunas and such there are still norms, and they must still be observed.

'no' still means 'no.'

'you must wear a condom to fuck me' still means 'you must wear a condom to fuck me.'

'I know better than he does what he really wants' and 'he was asking for it' are still bullshit.

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

Yup... but we have all heard it nonetheless.

[Snarkybitch]

'I know better than he does what he really wants' and 'he was asking for it' are still bullshit.

That's pretty much what a rapist says, in any event.

[neg4poz]

location - location - location

if you hang in a barber shop eventually you get a hair cut...

is this any different than the cock tease chick who shows off her tits and ass all night on a date and when it comes time to play she says no... the law says she has the right to say no - "no means no" - but doesnt she have it coming (cumming) to her ?

this is even more extreme - this guy isnt out on a date - hes not even out with a trick or a instant hookup - hell - the guy isnt even in his room in a bath house - he is in a DARK BLACKED OUT ROOM where there are sex pigs everywhere with his ass in the air and his hole opened up by the 5 guys prior who have fucked him - I say he gets what he gets....

[neg4poz]

if a guy is passed out unconscious in a bath house with the door open to his room is it ok to fuck him?

if a guy is passed out unconscious in a bath house with the door open to his room is it ok to fuck him raw?

if a guy is passed out unconscious in a bath house with the door open to his room is it ok to fuck him raw if your poz?

if a guy is passed out unconscious in a bath house with the door open to his room and cum is running out of his asshole is it ok to fuck him?

if a guy is passed out unconscious in a bath house with the door open to his room and cum is running out of his asshole is it ok to fuck him raw?

if a guy is passed out unconscious in a bath house with the door open to his room and cum is running out of his asshole is it ok to fuck him raw if your poz?

[drscorpio]

It's attitudes like this that make rape such a problem.

is this any different than the cock tease chick who shows off her tits and ass all night on a date and when it comes time to play she says no... the law says she has the right to say no - "no means no" - but doesnt she have it coming (cumming) to her ?

No

if a guy is passed out unconscious in a bath house with the door open to his room is it ok to fuck him?

if a guy is passed out unconscious in a bath house with the door open to his room is it ok to fuck him raw?

if a guy is passed out unconscious in a bath house with the door open to his room is it ok to fuck him raw if your poz?

if a guy is passed out unconscious in a bath house with the door open to his room and cum is running out of his asshole is it ok to fuck him?

if a guy is passed out unconscious in a bath house with the door open to his room and cum is running out of his asshole is it ok to fuck him raw?

if a guy is passed out unconscious in a bath house with the door open to his room and cum is running out of his asshole is it ok to fuck him raw if your poz?

No, No, No, No, No, No

Consent requires active participation from both parties.

That said, I know there are guys who WANT to be taken advantage of when they are helpless/pretending to be helpless. They want to give up their participation in the act so in their minds they aren't really saying they want your raw load. They want you to take their decision away. These guys need to man the fuck up and say "give me your load." You don't need to help them continue to be wusses about the whole situation.

[Guest mndude]

I have a scenario that happened to me where I felt very uncomfortable.

I was at a local bathhouse and after a couple of hours of fun, I stopped in a room where a guy was ass up waiting to get fucked. I know he had been fucked a couple of times already that night.

I walked in, got hard and slid in raw. I could tell that is what he wanted by his reaction. I was really enjoying myself and when the time came for me to unload, I let him know it. Just as I was about to breed him, he turns around and asks "you're neg, right?"

I felt that I didn't have much of a choice but to lie at that point and tell him I was neg. I pulled out and came on his hole and walked out of the room. I wasn't comfortable telling him I was poz at that point in time, but out of fear of HIV criminalization and the fact that I live in a small community, I didn't breed him.

What are your thoughts on how to handle a situation like that?

[einathens]

@mndude: ideally, the question should be asked before penetration.

if it isn't, try a question of your own, such as 'you want my dirty load?'

if i'm about to fuck a guy and he asks me to pull out when i'm ready to shoot, i say ' i'll try.' i'm a pretty noisy cummer, and i also try to let him know, as in 'oh fuck oh fuck i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm about to...'