HIV and Suicide

[VersatileBreeder]

Hey "POP",

I Private messaged you...

This link & the whole site, might be helpful.

http://www.thebody.com/content/49985/just-diagnosed-with-hiv-aids.html?ic=3001

I left you my email & phone. Will be in your area next week.

J

fillmyholeftl, thanks for the link. I briefly looked over it. It looks like the kind of site I could spend hours reading through, so I only took a quick glance through it. Look forward to meeting you this weekend!

[VersatileBreeder]

Got a couple of m8s who are Poz. Both struggled to come to terms with it, but both are leading happy fulfilled lives now and say that it is not really a great deal.

I have also recently been to the funeral of a (straight) friend who took his own life in the early stages of severe depression before the docs had a chance to get his meds right. His family and friends are all in a bad state now and will take a very long time to get over it.

So.... Please, please go and get help for the depression NOW. It may take a while, but with good treatment you will eventually be able to enjoy life again and spare the people that you care about.

sleazebugga, I am glad that your friends have gotten through the struggle of being poz and are now leading happy, uncomplicated lives. I am sorry for the loss of your friend who took his life because of his depression. Like I told libertyx, I know the gravity it puts on family and friends. I love my family and friends more than anything else in the world and I feel like no matter how bad my life gets, I just cannot put them through that grief. Sadly, at my low points in the recent weeks, that seems to have been the only thing that stopped me from taking that final step. That's not good, because if things get worse in other aspects of my life, it might not be enough to stop me. That is why I am seeking to get help in the near future. I say near future because things are status quo right now and I have a lot of crucial work matters going on that have a lot of weight on my employment in my near future. Basically, a lot of work needs to be done and a lot of deadlines met to ensure that I will have the job that I want next school year. Once I have all this out of my way and life gets a little less hectic, it's going to be my time to "do me" and get my life back on track.

[VersatileBreeder]

I can understand where you are coming from. I would say instead of looking at this like it is the end, instead focus on it being the next step in the journey of your life. Yes, there will be changes you need to make, but again don't define your life because you have HIV. Think about your previous goals, desires and dreams for the future. Now, determine how HIV has ended any of those.

Everyone dies. You can walk outside tomorrow and be hit by a drunk driver. You can get behind your wheel and a semi could smash into you. The risk of knowing that potential death surrounds you has never stopped you from living before. There is still no absolute moment of death for you. Don't dwell on what might happen in 10, 20 or even 50 years from now. Instead, live in the moment.

Now, you also mention you don't know who will love and accept you for who you are. During my 30+ years on Earth, I have found that the number of people who will love you, even when the chips are down are surprising. HIV is a foreign concept for many people, I get that. But this isn't the 80s and 90s. In fact, you'd be surprised at how many people know someone who is HIV+ and they are still loved unconditionally. They may need time to adjust. At the same time, you don't need to share it with the world. You also have the right to not tell anyone, until you are comfortable.

I'm a wordy bastard, and I unintentionally cross boundaries, I will admit it. But you are not alone. Hell, I am a faceless person on the internet, but you can vent to me anytime. I've helped more than a few people deal with HIV and cared for them in the various stages of the illness. You also have an entire website of people who will help you too. So, yeah we're internet strangers, but we're all here for you and you do have an eclectic group of friends and allies here.

azguy, thanks again for the encouragement. I am working toward not letting myself be defined by HIV and not let it stop my from achieving my prior goals and dreams. I completely get that there are people that will still love me unconditionally with HIV, but I haven't gotten my head around the stigma and how I believe the people around me might stigmatize me for being HIV+. Until I get a little more comfortable with my condition, I have to keep it to myself.

[VersatileBreeder]

We usually ignore feelings of shame and becoming poz can certainly trigger many feelings of shame. Shame is misunderstood so we seldom deal with it properly.

Depression is a direct consequence of feelings of shame. Because shame is such powerful and uncomfortable experience we shut down shame and experience feelings of depression or many times violence. Donald Nathanson, a psychiatrist from Philadelphia and an expert on shame, explains all of this very well with something he calls The Compass of Shame. You can watch a video at

. Depression is the Attack Self of the Compass of Shame.

The shame associated with becoming poz is triggered because there's a sudden end to an expectation one had of oneself. This experience will vary from person to person and social environments. In the case of poptronic, from what I have read, his expectations have to do with a family and friends expectations of a "heterosexual life" and in his case becoming poz forces a sudden stop to a series of dreams and fantasies which were joyful and exciting. Thus, the feelings of shame that are a direct result of this drastic change in mood.

The video explains the Compass of Shame but in order to better understand Nathanson's concepts on shame it's best to read some articles available in the Internet.

What Nathanson suggests is that rather than escaping from shame one should face it and learn from that experience so one can live a more emotionally peaceful life.

hungry_hole, I have learned very quickly that shame is an overpowering emotion. Do I feel ashamed of diagnosing HIV+? Absolutely. But the shame isn't so much in BEING poz. It is more rooted in the fact that I had so much education about HIV and so much opportunity to walk away from all of the things that exposed me to HIV and I didn't. Some might even argue that I was subconsciously chasing, though I don't believe I was at all.

Hopefully, therapy (whenever I get into it) will help me breakaway from those feelings of shame. I definitely don't need them weighing on me.

[VersatileBreeder]

This post is a cry for help. Go check yourself into a facility. You need treatment now. You can have a great long life as a poz man.

Cumfilledbottomboi, this post was totally a cry for help. No denying that. Like I said, I had no one else I could talk about this with and nowhere else to go.

My roommate (also my best friend) walked into the bathroom the morning after I had my suicidal episode two weeks ago. I was cleaning all my puke off the floor (gross, I know, sorry). He asked what the hell happened. I told him I got pretty sick from all the drinking the night before. He saw the ibuprofen pills (of which I had tried to swallow) also scattered all over the floor. He put two and two together. Without bluntly asking me if I tried to kill myself, he asked me if there was anything I wanted to talk about. My initial instinct was to actually talk to him, but I just responded no, nothing I need to talk about. He asked why there were pills all over the floor and I told him I tried to take a few to fend off a killer headache from the drinking. He asked how I got them all over the place and I told him "dude, I was wasted. It was a clumsy drunken spill..." Truth is, I really did want to talk about it, but I either had to go all in and tell him I am poz, or nothing at all. I chose the latter.

Wish I had the time and wish I had the money to go check myself into a facility, but it's just not going to happen right now. Therapy soon. Just need to get the time and need to find the right doctor.

[VersatileBreeder]

Some groups have a structured topic for the night.

Most are a little more free-form. They often start with a check-in on how everyone's week has been. New people are asked to tell a little about themselves. (No you don't have to share your whole story - Name, Bi, Known since January is enough) With most someone in the group shares an issue they're having at the moment, and others respond with how they've dealt with the same kind of problem. It's sort of like brainstorming about how to attack a challenge that person is facing.

At the moment, you might not feel you are able to share your situation with the group. And that's ok. But just being there, meeting other Poz people, and hearing that they have problems & fears similar to yours, puts your mind at rest. Right now you feel alone & lost in the world. Going to one of these groups would prove you are not alone.

I think you'll find that most newly diagnosed guys, at some point, feel exactly like you do right now.

It's pretty clear that there are a whole whack of people here, that are on your side. And all of us are offering help. If you don't feel you can go to a group, call any of the BZ guys that have sent you their number. We're pulling for you, and are here to get you through this. You are not alone!

I've been where you are now, more than once. Several times actually. I've made it out the other side of the mindset you're in. You will too.

Poz1956, I am looking forward to going to the group meetings once I get the opportunity to. As you have suggested, it should be therapeutic and stress relieving to do so.

[VersatileBreeder]

The group I go to is a two day retreat because there isn't a group within fifty miles. Two models I've seen and experienced is a very agenda-based approach where the facilitator wants to get a certain number of facts across (almost a 12 step approach). Always room for questions and exploring a topic deeper, whether it be legal issues, how to deal with side effects should they happen, why triple (or more) therapy, how to tell people you've got HIV and how to deal with their reactions. In an agenda based group the facilitator tends to have an eye on the clock in their desire to get information over. It's a good way to start out but a bit like going to night school.

I prefer emotion-based groups when the facilitator's job is more to keep someone from taking all the group's time, unless that person really needs that time. A credo of that setup is that time given to others is given ungrudgingly. A while ago I was in a group where practically the entire hour was spent on one man who had caught HIV through being raped. Note that this was part of a weekend retreat: we had the luxury of time. Even so towards the last few minutes of the group the facilitator asked if anyone wanted to bring anything else up, though it might have to go into the next session.

There are a couple of outdoor-based groups in the UK, though my days of hiking for miles are behind me (if there's a number of us wanting to use the staircase I make a point of going last because of my walking speed after breaking my ankle). The point of groups like that is, I suppose, simply spending time with other PwHIV which is valuable in itself. It's very liberating to be able to let the conversation wander where it will, including discussions of which doctor is better for what, how you suddenly can't drink red wine again or whatever.

Yes some sex goes on, but it's not what I'd think of bar-driven sex. I know two guys who live at opposite ends of England and only see each other at the quarterly retreat weekends. Because this weekend is residential, you've got two evenings in the bar (well, I always head off to the bar) where as much discussion goes on as goes on in the groups, which isn't to say that there isn't room for messing around. Last weekend we started playing with our phones: I was hit on by a guy a couple of hundred miles away, and it was only the following night when he started conversation again when I was home that he said he's only been diagnosed in January and had hit on me because I always disclose on profiles. Had I been at home I'd have been at the PC rather than playing with Growlr.

The most important thing about any sort of support group is that there's that whole layer stripped away: we each know that everyone in the room has HIV, however we acquired it. I consider myself to be pretty much totally out about my HIV, but I'll tell a taxi driver that I use a walking stick because of thinning bones and a broken ankle and omit the fact that the thinning bones are a very rare side effect of an HIV drug.

In the end, the only way to find out the answer is to go along and find out. Don't go by first impressions: go to several meetings before you decide whether this is right for you. You might hit them on a bad night, or on a night where no-one feels like talking or whatever. It's a bit like trying something new sexually: the first time nerves can put you off and block your enjoyment...

bearbandit, I am definitely looking forward to meeting guys who are in the same boat as me. It will make me feel less alone in the world. I don't know about any retreats or anything of that nature, but once I start going to the meetings, I will be open to whatever it is that they have available.

[VersatileBreeder]

Sorry for being so late to this discussion (I've been playing hookie from my moderation duties). But a couple of thoughts…

Cut EVERYONE out of your life who won't support you and love you. They should be nothing more to you than casual acquaintances who you smile at and then ignore when you don't absolutely have to interact with them. You mentioned your father is trying to bring you into his real estate business. If he doesn't love you and support you as a poz gay man, then that is not a good environment for you. I've gone through this with big parts of my family. It's not easy, but trust me, trying to get people to change is a complete waste of time. Just move on and do what's best for you.

You then need to actively work to rebuild your life. It won't be easy, but when you get to the end you'll be one of those people who say "becoming poz was the best thing that ever happened to me". Why? Because it forced you to take control of your life and live a life that's worth living. You can do it, and you'll be better for having done it. But it won't be easy.

In the meantime get professional counseling from a gay friendly therapist.

rawTOP, though it seems like the logical course of action to go ahead and cut everyone out of my life who I feel won't be supportive to me as a poz bisexual, I am really not sure I can do it. I've spoken about my parents before and how they will react to finding out I am bi, and even worse, find out that I am poz. I owe everything to my parents. They did everything right in raising my sisters and I, but I don't feel like I can repay them by dropping this bomb on them. It will ruin their lives. I can't do that to them.

I have been trying to figure out a new five year plan- what I want to accomplish by the time I am 35. I have been thinking about relocating to the west coast- more specifically southern California (Los Angeles, San Diego, or somewhere in between). I love it out there. But aside from that, I think that putting some distance between myself and my family might actually be healthy. It will give me more freedom to live my life the way I want to. I am imagining that in that scenario, I will be able to (as you said) say that "becoming poz forced me to live a life worth living."

[VersatileBreeder]

First of all: Teaching and bartending are good jobs if you are depressed, as they provide a constant stream of human contact. But if you are seriously considering suicide (there is a somewhat of distinction between considering suicide and "suicidal gestures" which are a just a cry for help and attention, albeit it's not all black and white), you should be equally serious about getting help, because you need it. Even just 45 minutes of therapy every week can help - A LOT.

You also have to ask yourself what is really important. We all think we need certain stuff when in reality we earn money to look good for others, be it a hot outfit for a date or a bigger car so one's neighbor will be envious. Your mental health should be a higher priority than that.

You don't have to become Ghandi. But you should take a step back from the rat race and focus on what really matters.

GermanFucker, you are totally right- teaching and bartending are probably among the best jobs I could have right now. If I was still working in my prior career (banking), I probably would have literally slit my wrists by this point. That job was depressing enough in itself. But when I am teaching, my mind is totally off the poz issues. My students (high school age) are for the most part good kids and they keep me in good spirits. Same for bartending- my coworkers and my customers keep me engaged in the job and not what is weighing on my mind.

I am still not sure if my episode two weeks ago was an actual suicide attempt or a gesture. At the time, I was in an altered state of mind, hammered off my ass. I didn't want to deal with life anymore at the time and the alcohol gave me the "balls" to act on it. But like I said, I am going to seek therapy soon.

I have been looking at what is really important in life. Earning money for me right now is a means of survival. I just paid almost a grand for co-insurance costs for all the bloodwork I had with my ID specialist two months ago. And that was on a credit card- money I don't even have right now. Trust me, I WISH I was earning enough money right now to be able to be able to worry about the status bullshit. I had that life a few years ago when I worked in finance- designer clothes weren't an issue, had a new BMW, pricey vacations to Europe... You get the picture. But those days are gone and I am just trying to put myself back together financially as well as mentally. The rat race for me isn't about those frivolous material things, it is literally to avoid going bankrupt and keeping my credit score up.

[VersatileBreeder]

Poptronics,

I go to a group at the Mazzoni Center in Philadelphia, http://mazzonicenter.org/content/living-hivaids. It meets every Tuesday at 6:30 - 7:30 and then most of us go out to eat afterwards. What usually happens is the facilitator will ask if anyone has any topics they would like to discuss and if someone does they will just start talking. We all will listen and try to make useful and encouraging comments. Some times people will bring in article to discuss. Last week we had a Dr from the health center answering questions. There are people there who have been poz over 20 years and the just diagnosed, so there will be someone who is in, or has been in a similar situation to you. I think you are in NJ so you might want to try making it some Tuesday.

lower_bucks_bottom, your group in Philly sounds awesome! I hope that the group I am going to attend soon is as good. Thanks for the suggestion of going but I live way up in northeastern NJ near NYC. Philly is about two hours from me, so I am not sure that it makes real good sense for me to make that kind of trek to go there. But again, thank you for the suggestion.

[VersatileBreeder]

I can relate to a degree with what you're going through. I'm not poz but I have a genetic condition called neurofibromatosis. If you remember a picture of an Itialian guy covered in bumps being hugged by the pope, that is what I have. There is no treatment or cure. I did not show signs of it until I was 23, buy the time I was 27 it had left me with erectile disfunction. I'm 57, the fibromas (bumps) have kept people away, coupled with the ED I don't get a lot of action. I'm not suicidal per se, I'm not lifeacidal meaning I don't give a shit if I live or die. The only thing which gets me out of bed are my two cats. I have no family so if something happened to me I worry about what would happen to them. Silly I know but they are my life. I get down when I go to the gym and see guys with smooth skin remembering what I looked like before NF. I get down, I get pissed off with the why me attitude, then I see the guy in wheelchair that might be all of 3ft tall. His outward appearance shows he lives with it and makes the best of it. I then realize I am lucky aside from the NF : I'm 57 and in great shape physically, no other medical issues, I'm lean, have a full head of sandy colored hair (no dying it for me), all my teeth and all the marbles are rolling around just fine. So yeah what I have sucks and wish I didn't have it, but I also look at the plusses I do have and go on with the day.

I don't know how old you are but guessing mid 20's early 30's. You still have much to do, much to see and much to experience. Please don't give up sir. Things will work out for you, I know it is hard yo see now, but take one day at a time. Peace be with you young master, I am in your corner and on your side. ((HUGS))

barefootbob, I am somewhat familiar with neurofibromatosis. If I'm not mistaken, that is what Joseph Merrick (the "Elephant Man") suffered from? I am sorry to hear that you suffer from it and I can't even imagine what it is like to struggle with a condition like that. Your response to the thread kind of smacked me into reality a bit and made me see things from a different perspective. Your statement that you're not lifeacidal and don't give a shit if you live or die kind of sent a chill up my spine when I read it. I am glad that you at least have your cats to give you a reason for living. I have considered getting a dog for a similar reason- would love to have that unconditional friend when I am feeling alone in the world. Kudos for being able to see the plusses in your life despite your condition.

You were pretty accurate in guessing my age- I'm 29 (30 in two months... Yikes!). I don't want to give up. I just need the right guidance to make sure I don't. Thank you for your supporting words and encouragement ((Hugs back at you bro))

[barefootbob]

barefootbob, I am somewhat familiar with neurofibromatosis. If I'm not mistaken, that is what Joseph Merrick (the "Elephant Man") suffered from? I am sorry to hear that you suffer from it and I can't even imagine what it is like to struggle with a condition like that. Your response to the thread kind of smacked me into reality a bit and made me see things from a different perspective. Your statement that you're not lifeacidal and don't give a shit if you live or die kind of sent a chill up my spine when I read it. I am glad that you at least have your cats to give you a reason for living. I have considered getting a dog for a similar reason- would love to have that unconditional friend when I am feeling alone in the world. Kudos for being able to see the plusses in your life despite your condition.

You were pretty accurate in guessing my age- I'm 29 (30 in two months... Yikes!). I don't want to give up. I just need the right guidance to make sure I don't. Thank you for your supporting words and encouragement ((Hugs back at you bro))

John Merrick had an off shoot of NF.

I am glad my comments might have given you a nudge to see things in a different light. You just need to find yourself again, figure out what you want, where you want to be and I am certain you will achieve it because I believe you have the inner strength.

I am here for you in whatever capacity you need.

[TigerMilner]

Here is an excellent article from an excellent source.

http://www.thebody.com/content/74247/five-years-after-diagnosis.html?ic=7001

[VersatileBreeder]

Just to check in...

Tiger, thanks for the article. I found it pretty uplifting. I hope that I get into the same good spirits as the writer of that article, sooner than later.

Things have been OK. Last Saturday, I had another episode where I went a bit manic, but it was short lived. A friend off here actually helped talk me through it. He knows who he is... Thanks buddy!

I finally got my ass into a support group on Monday. I was able to (finally) get a night off from work and go. I think apart from work, I was nervous about going, though I really had no reason to be. I also didn't really know what to expect. It's pretty much the only support group of its kind in the area and its about 20 minutes from me, so not a horrible travel.

The support group went well. I always get a bit of social anxiety when I go somewhere that I don't know anyone. But these guys were very friendly and more than welcoming to me. So, I felt at home pretty quickly when I got there.

As it turns out, a guy that I remember hooking up with about three years ago was there. I had a fear that that might happen, though I didn't really think that it actually was going to happen! I shook his hand as we introduced ourselves. It's hard to tell whether he remembered me or not. It wasn't a very awkward introduction, so chances are, he may not remember me. Turns out he found out he was poz only a couple of weeks before I did, so he is pretty new to the group also.

The group was about 12 guys sitting in a circle in a room. We went around the room and introduced ourselves and just mentioned our names and how long we've been poz for. I am glad I went, but I didn't find it to be greatly enlightening. I probably felt that way because the main topic of the night was different ways in which we can effectively disclose status to someone whom we are dating or would like to start a relationship with. I am not terribly interested in that right now, in fact, it's probably among the least of my concerns.

I can't help but think that I caught the group on a slow night and other nights probably have more of a break through effect for the guys there. So, I definitely intend on going again, though I don't think I will be there every Monday night.

Therapy is the next step for me, because I think I need to talk to someone where we can hit my issues head on. It's all about finding the right one. There are a TON of LCSW's, psychologists, psychiatrists, therapists, etc in my area and many of them gay friendly, but I don't know which ones are really good and which ones aren't. When I worked in finance, I had this older woman as a client who was a therapist and she was a TOTAL WHACK JOB. Scatterbrained like I have never seen before. I cannot imagine sitting in a room telling a person like her my issues and relying on her to help me. Makes me think, "damn... they'll let anyone be an LCSW these days huh?" I'm sure I'll find the right one, but it will take a bit of time and research.

[wood]

Hows it going Pop!