Stoli - Yes or No?

[rawTOP]

Just had a bit of an argument on Foursquare with a gay party promoter who had Stoli drink specials at his last party. Here are some of the facts… For more see this article…

http://globalnews.ca/news/1407839/is-stoli-back-in-lgbt-community-good-graces-after-vodka-boycott/

Pro-Stoli:

• Stoli isn't made is Russia - it's made across the border in Latvia
  
• Stoli is a sponsor of World Pride
  

Anti-Stoli:

• The grain used to make Stoli comes from Russia
  
• The owner of Stoli is Russian (I can forgive that one - it's an accident of birth)
  
• Ask 100 gay guys to name a Russian vodka and more than half will probably say Stoli - it's a symbol
  

In my opinion what that adds up to is that Stoli puts on a good marketing face, but they won't go as far as changing grain suppliers to really say they want no connection to the atrocities happening to the gay community in Russia. If you're my age or older - it's the apartheid question all over again - do you divest or do you strategically invest in ways that show how things could be done differently?

Personally, I can forgive a bar for stocking Stoli and serving it when requested though I'd prefer they not stock it at all. But a Stoli drink special? IMHO, that's going too far. To me it trivializes the persecution of our gay brothers and sisters in Russia. Stoli is a symbol of Russia to most gay men, and there are connections between Stoli and Russia even if it's not 100% Russian.

Thoughts?

Edited June 25, 2014 by rawTOP

[bb1991]

I'm in two minds. On the one hand it is a very Russian brand: founded and produced in Russia, with its branding and labeling making it very clear that it is a Russian product.

On the other-hand its producer is very much a modern international company: it is officially based in Luxembourg (tax reasons?) and, as you say, partially produced in Latvia (which -as with the other Baltic states- is an enthusiastic member of the EU and a member of NATO; they're friends and we shouldn't hold it against them that they share a border with Russia).

I guess what it really comes down to is your attitude towards government and people. Do you hate all Russians because of the actions of their government?

In "democratic" countries such as the US and Britain, us plebs have little say over the state of affairs, or control over the actions of our governments... it would be stupid to hold every Russian accountable for the actions of a government they cannot control.

At the end of the day, this company is the same: they have no influence over governmental policy and risk domestic reprisal for publicly opposing the anti-gay policies and supporting things such as world pride.

If they are successfully boycotted and thereby put out of business, surely that is just one less pro-gay voice from within Russia?

[rawTOP]

I guess what it really comes down to is your attitude towards government and people. Do you hate all Russians because of the actions of their government?

In "democratic" countries such as the US and Britain, us plebs have little say over the state of affairs, or control over the actions of our governments... it would be stupid to hold every Russian accountable for the actions of a government they cannot control.

For me it's not about hating Russians at all. It's about making a stand against what's going on in Russia. Putin is ELECTED. There is something to be said for holding the people accountable for the policies of the people they elect to govern them.

At the end of the day, this company is the same: they have no influence over governmental policy and risk domestic reprisal for publicly opposing the anti-gay policies and supporting things such as world pride.

If they are successfully boycotted and thereby put out of business, surely that is just one less pro-gay voice from within Russia?

How pro-gay is it, if they don't change their supplier? There are plenty of other pro-gay vodka companies. I would be OK with Stoli going out of business, though I don't think that will ever happen - even with a broad-based boycott.

[Guest beezee]

Misinformed and crazy - the brand is Russian in the same way Old El Paso is Mexican. I don't remember boycotting Jack Daniels when you guys passed the Defense of Marriage Act (with overwhelming public support). :-)

[TigerMilner]

I agree with you RT and I appreciate that you point it out here for those of us who don't keep up with such things. Now we know. Fuck Stoli. Nothing pisses me off more than someone who pretends to be my friend to get my money. That is in essence what they are doing.

[Guest PozGoat]

There was a pretty big boycott here in Chicago. Many of the gay bars here in Lakeview/Boystown had signs saying they were boycotting Stoli.

This is also pride weekend and the parade route goes past my doorstep. I'll keep an eye out this weekend to see if any bars are still protesting or boycotting Stoli. I'm for boycotting until they change suppliers and stop using Russian products until Putin is voted out.

Thanks for posting this RT for awareness.

[fillmyholeftl]

Personally, I don't drink (sober 18+ yrs), but aren't there new brands of Vodka that are better than Stoli?? I notice all these pretty bottles lined up at SLAMMER's when I'm there for "testing" :-)

[rawTOP]

Personally, I don't drink (sober 18+ yrs), but aren't there new brands of Vodka that are better than Stoli?? I notice all these pretty bottles lined up at SLAMMER's when I'm there for "testing" :-)

And that was sort of my point to the party promoter - of all the decent, completely gay-friendly brands of vodka out there, why in the hell would you choose Stoli? Just the appearance of things is bad.

[naex]

You guys do realize that Stoli is actively donating to grsm (lgbt+) rights organizations, and has actively fought attempts by the Russian government to nationalize it's Vodka production right? Stoli is very gay friendly, the idiotic opinions of one person taken up as ridiculous feel-good boycott that Russian gays neither want nor need. The boycott itself is a wonderful example of Gay Inc.'s lazy, self-aggrandizing, politics. The same people who actively work to undermine the kinds of values that seem to be prevalent on this site are those promoting this kind of lazy politics. Hypocrisy much?

Regarding moving grain production elsewhere...that's a pretty tall order there and involves the relocation of countless farms. If you're going to boycott Stoli because they refuse to do that, then I hope you're also boycotting the huge list of American companies that base their production facilities in non-human rights friendly territories. Certainly you should avoid ever buying gasoline.

Edited June 26, 2014 by naex

[rawTOP]

Regarding moving grain production elsewhere...that's a pretty tall order there and involves the relocation of countless farms.

I'm pretty sure they're just "suppliers" not farms they own. So switch suppliers - it's really not complicated.

[bb1991]

So switch suppliers - it's really not complicated.

I'm quite surprised they haven't done this already. We have free trade and free movement of goods and people across the EU. The company could use suppliers and farms from anywhere in the EU and not trigger the Tax, Import Duties and VAT charges that importing from Russia would incur.

The only reason I can think that they still source from Russia is that it is because of their branding and claims to be "authentic Russian vodka" but that's a thin argument when you look at Smirnoff. It brands itself as Russian and was originally founded there, but is now owned by a British company (same British company that owns Guinness, and lots of whiskey brands). It's vodka is made mainly in the UK and USA but that doesn't stop them portraying themselves as "Russian".

And Naex , I agree with you. So much of this seems to be inspired by inflamed passions that reason goes out the window, replaced by the hypocrisy and lazy politics.

Being gay will get you the death penalty in some countries (incidentally Russia is not one of them).

Uganda for example - but you'll probably still have their coffee in your kitchens and their rare metals in your computers and gadgets.

Saudi Arabia - America purchases 1.4million barrels of Saudi oil a day.

Nigeria - previously close to Britain due to the amount of Nigerian immigrants in Britain.

Stepping down you have countries who imprison gays: "friends" like India (who the British government give £1.4billion a year in aid to), Egypt, Morocco, Malaysia, Ethiopia. Again Russia is not one of them.

In Russia being gay is legal.

This boycott started because of the discrimination gays face there and the anti-propaganda law that stops advertisement of gay relationships to children (anyone remember Section 28 of the Local Government Act 1988... not rescinded by the British government until 2003...).

I by all means don't wish to belittle the struggle of gay people in Russia but boycotts against Russian goods seem hypocritical (and misguided when targeting pro-gay Russian companies such as stoli) when we are happy to overlook the worse conditions gay people face elsewhere in the world.

I can only say it looks to be motivated by enduring anti-Russian cold-war style feelings rather than an educated and reasoned approach.

[naex]

"We own our spirit production process from grain to bottle: our ‘Alpha’ quality vodka is distilled in Russia from grain produced in our nearby fields. This alcohol then travels across the border to Riga, Latvia, where it is blended with pure artesian well water at our facility that has bottled Stolichnaya since 1948."

-- http://stoliforequality.com/