[Breeder] Open Forum Friday: Art of the Insult

[TheBreeder]

To see Breeder's original blog post click here

Several years ago, I ran across a kid I vaguely knew on one of the instant messaging systems. He was a twenty-four-year-old Mexican boy on a bowling league with friends of mine. I’d seen him at the alleys once or twice, but I couldn’t remember having ever talked to him. He had a reputation of being something of a twit. I thought you looked like a good guy to get to know, he messaged.

I think I’m a good guy to get to know, myself, but naturally I wanted to know in what way he was talking. He responded that he was talking about getting to know me sexually. Oh yeah? I wrote back. Why is that?

I know you’re an old guy and really not a GQ type, he wrote. I was in my late thirties at the time. I’m okay with that.

Knowing that my ego was not going to like the answer, I asked, And why is that okay?

He typed out, Because it means you don’t get to have sex all that much. While I absorbed that one, he added, So you won’t give me any diseases.

So let me get this right, I asked him. You’re messaging a perfect stranger to tell him that because you think he’s old and unattractive, he’s a good candidate for sex because no one in his right mind is going to have sex with him and give him diseases to pass on to you.

Yeah I guess so. Pretty much, he wrote back.

Jesus fucking christ. At the time, I wracked my brain all day today wondering if there was ever a time in my youth I ever told a guy he was old or ugly. If I had, I’d probably have understood why I was getting bit on the butt with karmic retribution. I’m positive I was never that unkind, though.

Listen, I told the kid. So you know. I’m sure you thought you meant well, but that kind of approach is really pretty hurtful. Then I gave him a quick thanks, but hell-no thanks. I suppose there are men out there desperate enough to accept the come-ons of a twenty-four-year-old who thinks it’s okay to insult his potential sex partners, but I’m certainly not one of them.

It was a little strange. I ran across this incident in my old journals yesterday when I was poring through some old entries, looking for something specific. Then within five minutes, I had two more encounters of the exact same type. They happened simultaneously, and both left me in a foul mood after.

The first (by mere seconds) came from another Latin twenty-something-year-old—a guy with a misleading profile name that included the word ‘nice’ combined with the year of his birth. He wasn’t so nice. Hey sexy how ru, he messaged me on Adam4Adam.

Hi there, I wrote back. I like your pics. He was a large-framed guy, but fairly good-looking, and had a good smile. A smile goes a long way toward making any man look attractive, particularly in a sea of profile photos taken by scowling at one’s own camera phone.

I rly like urs, he wrote back. U got a hot dick.

Thanks, I said. You should let me fuck you with it sometime.

Then things got rapidly and mysteriously sour. Go fuck urself asshole!!!!! he wrote back. I wouldnt let u touch me!!!

My reaction: What the fuck? So I wrote the kid back saying something like, you know, when you respond to someone’s expression of admiration with that kind of shit, don’t expect to have a real big circle of friends.

It was probably milder than he deserved. Then I blocked him.

Immediately after I sent that off, a message from some other Adam4Adam guy appeared. The guy was scruffy in a homeless way and only mildly attractive; most of his photos showed him swathed in huge hipster-ironic puffy winter coats or wildly-rumpled clothing, so that it was tough to tell whether he was skinny and trendy, or merely fucking enormous. Here’s his message, which I am reproducing in its entirety: you seem creepy - not entirely in a bad way.

And again, I was like, what the fuck?

In what universe, I wrote back to the guy, is it really acceptable to tell a perfect stranger that he looks creepy?

Put your ego in check, asshole! he wrote back. Yes, really. It was a fucking compliment.

In the future, I pounded back on the keys, my cheeks flaming and smoke issuing out of my ears like Elmer Fudd in some Looney Tunes short, perhaps you’d find that a genuine compliment would serve you better than the shit you’re serving up.

Then I blocked the dipshit.

I’m really not sure I understand how people can be so rude on these sites. Sure, I get snippy when provoked. But are there actually people—outside of a certain subset of guys who maybe are really, really into flasher-in-the-park roleplay—who think it’s acceptable behavior to start off by telling a guy he looks creepy? Even if it’s modified with the damning faint praise of ‘not entirely’? I imagine any guy who’d use that as his opener and then would admonish me to keep my ego in check has some serious issues of his own, but jeez. Why do I have to be the lucky recipient?

So I’m turning it over to you guys. I know we’ve all been on the receiving end of bad treatment before, both online and in person. But have you ever had someone come at you right from the get-go with insults? And if so, how did you handle it?

More...

[dmckins]

I've had a few straight up snarky remarks at my profile before and I usually just thank them for their time and block them. The just simply aren't worth the time and space in my life to comment. You know you are hot. Why let someone tear you down even for just a second. They will be the next generation of bar beggers hopping from guy to guy asking for a drink... Take solice in that. *winks*

[TheBreeder]

I guess my thing is that they're not going to know their behavior is mean unless someone tells them. Perhaps it's unbelievably naive of me, but I've got this notion deep within that when people realize they're acting in an unacceptable way, they'll stop. It's got to start somewhere, with someone saying, "Hey, you can't act that way toward me."

There's another generation of bar beggars coming up? I don't need the competition!

[BadBadThing]

I've read your blog and replies. Thanks for an honest discussion on this.

I think part of the problem stems from people now, as opposed to when you and I were 20, have less developed (poorer?) social boundaries. Both men and women because this behavior isn't male or gay only.

Also, take a look at the medium that the culture in question uses mostly, the web. It leads to more of the feeling of anonymity and lack of social regard. For gay guys add in that we meet in bath houses & book stores & parks. We form five second opinions mostly based on fantasy, presupposition, and stereotype. And if someone doesn't meet that those illusions, because some guys can't take anything but that stylized world (there is another rant at this point, but not here) they lash out, knowingly or unknowingly.

That is until they get to be old enough to have more life than a frat or next party or next pill or line or cock. When you have car payments and rent and aging parents and all of the real life things that mean you don't get to do 3 hours a day at the gym or your body's metabolism isn't granting a rippling abs and bouncy balloon butt at 32 psi. Then it's their turn to see how shallow the next teen twinks will be. And if we have these now, wait to see what 20 years bring.

[Belfast-Bottom]

To TheBreeder: welcome to the internet generation. I'm coming to the conclusion that the genes responsible for homosexuality are also responsible for extreme shallowness. I had a 29 year old friend told recently that he was too old and fat - by a 27 year old. My friend isn't fat, but he doesn't have the 12 pack of bulging, sculpted, abs that are mandatory on today's gay scene. I blame the rising tide of rudeness on the decline of family life. Increasingly parents ( pursuing their own pleasure ) have abandoned their children to TV, the internet, celebrity magazines, shopping malls and the street. The poor kids don't know any better.

[barefootbob]

let me get this straight (no pun LOL) they message you, you respond, then say you are too old, fat, skinny, ugly, tall, short, whatever for them to meet you??? your responses back are head and shoulders nicer than I would have done.

I can relate and my run-ins isn't from the younger crowd, it is from guys around my age. (54) we meet seem to get along and then nothing, I don't hear back from them, they don't return calls or emails, no explanation. Another one I get is I will trade a pic and don't hear back from them. I would be fine with a thanks but no thanks, I get zip. FUCK that annoys the shit out of me. I know I am no dream date but they even make the effort to get to know me and will never know the deep level of loyalty I give in friendship.

on a side note: you are hot as hell and don't see what those dipshits are going on about. I would give anything to date a guy like you.

[barefootbob]

GDMFSOB, what I just posted happened not 5 miinutes ago. chatting with a guy on A4A for about 10 minutes, he asked for a picture, then off line he goes. god dammit that pisses me off, I would be fine with "your picture scared my dog and he's hiding under the bed" or even "you are really fugly" something . . . shit don't chat away then see my pic and go off line or stop chatting.

[Benji Thorn]

I have to say… I too have been guilty of the classic picture trade and log off maneuver. Yes, it’s a bitch boy thing to do and moreover not nice. I guess it was fear of guys overacting when I wasn’t interested. I do live in a large city however the Queer community seems so small and therein the chances of running into some one you’ve pissed off, in a chat site are very large. Logging off seemed easier than a confrontation on the street, in a bar or at the baths later.

However something happened just a few days ago that changed my thinking. After an endless night of hunting for a top on the sites, I thought “hey maybe I should try the phone lines,” I’ll find my top man there. This something I’ve not done in years, so I gave it a shot. One of the first messages I got was from a hard pounding leather top guy and on the phone line he sounded perfect. After a few messages we directed each other to our BBRT profiles. When I saw who I was speaking with I recognized him instantly. I’ve seen him in the Gay Ghetto looking quite obviously in failing health and in need of a break from the party drugs. I knew wasn’t attracted and could have instantly disconnected the private chat and left it at that.

Don’t get me wrong, I really do like all kinds of men and HIV poz, drugs or no drugs isn’t an issue. What I like in men depends on the guy, my mood, the day and how well we hit it off. I really don’t care if he’s has a few extra pounds, or is skinny like a twig. In fact I prefer real men over the highly polished “Gay A-listers” with well groomed hair, D&G jeans, and snotty attitudes.

Anyhow, I was confronted with a dilemma of what to tell this guy when he asked “So, what do you think? Should I come over?” I decided to be honest and I said “You know what man; I don’t think it’s going to work, but thanks a lot.” I waited for the barrage of insults to come my way or at the very least for him to hang up on me. Then he said “No problem buddy, thanks for being honest. Happy hunting.”

I guess being honest, without being a total prick, is truly the best policy. No feelings were hurt and I know the next time I see him on the street I... we wont feel an awkward discomfort. Choosing to be a man by telling the truth worked and hell why wasn’t I doing this before.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Benji Thorn

[HungLatinDom]

I've read your blog and replies. Thanks for an honest discussion on this.

I think part of the problem stems from people now, as opposed to when you and I were 20, have less developed (poorer?) social boundaries. Both men and women because this behavior isn't male or gay only.

Also, take a look at the medium that the culture in question uses mostly, the web. It leads to more of the feeling of anonymity and lack of social regard. For gay guys add in that we meet in bath houses & book stores & parks. We form five second opinions mostly based on fantasy, presupposition, and stereotype. And if someone doesn't meet that those illusions, because some guys can't take anything but that stylized world (there is another rant at this point, but not here) they lash out, knowingly or unknowingly.

That is until they get to be old enough to have more life than a frat or next party or next pill or line or cock. When you have car payments and rent and aging parents and all of the real life things that mean you don't get to do 3 hours a day at the gym or your body's metabolism isn't granting a rippling abs and bouncy balloon butt at 32 psi. Then it's their turn to see how shallow the next teen twinks will be. And if we have these now, wait to see what 20 years bring.

Sorry, but I think you are seeing too much on the age. I have met nasty people from all ages. Since I like older guys and I say that on my profile, I tend to get more messages from them, some very nasty. Sometimes they are insulting and/or patronizing on the first message. Other take issue because when we are on the same town, my bf and I always play together. When I tell them that "I am playing with ______ here" and won't play alone, they start saying nasty things about us. One of them (in much worse shape than my partner, even if younger) sent a message to him after I blocked his profile, telling him that he was going to kill me.

Nasty, annoying people come at any age. No need for ageism.

[TheBreeder]

Badbadthing--I tend to agree with you that the internet and its various forms of quick communication make it easier to be rude to people, simply because you're not having to do it to their faces. It's easier to justify being rude to some words on a display screen than it is to a live person. I disagree that it's a phenomenon limited solely to the young, though. I get just as much appalling behavior from guys my age and older as I do from the young.

Belfast-Bottom--Those 29-year-olds who are claiming other are too old and too fat are the future generation of 54-year-olds I know with paunches and grizzled hair who act as if they are entitled to cruise only hot young boys. The 54-year-olds learned that behavior pre-internet. Judging from the number of straight men I've known who've duped their wives of many years for a newer, younger model, it's not exclusively a gay phenomenon, either.

Barefootbob--I've had the pic trade-then-logoff maneuver pulled on me, too. I think guys use it, though, because there is a significant population of men who think that because they've traded photos with you or unlocked them to prompt you to unlock yours, there's an obligation to follow through and meet and fuck each other. When I've politely said something like, "Hey, nice pics, but I don't think you're really for me," I've been on the receiving end of so many shrieking demands to list what's wrong, followed usually by an abusive list of my own shortcomings. It hasn't prompted me to log off after someone sends me bad pics, but it has taught me not to engage in a lot of conversation after they've arrived. Like you, I'd rather just have someone plainly and politely tell me we're not compatible, but I fully understand why men are shy about it.

[TheBreeder]

Benji--I'm glad that worked out for you. I've been in similar situations. Like I said to Barefootbob, though, not every guy reacts with such grace. I wish they did. Even if feelings were hurt, they're going to get soothed a lot more quickly than by flying off the handle.

HungLatinDom--Amen. Nasty people come in every age. And size and shape and color and level of beauty. Every single time I am blown away by how they don't recognize their own behavior.

[evilqueerpig]

When confronted by snarksters, I have a standard remark..."I'd sooner nail my dick to a burning building!".....giving me the last word before I put them on ignore. Remember, it's more rewarding to make people wish they were dead than killing them.