I almost had a sex with a "st8" guy

[Flared]

I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. There's someone, older than me (41) and I'm nearly 20. Theoretically he is a str8 guy. He is divorced and he has a son. Maybe I have a porn-fueled daddy fantasy, but I think this is not the case. I had one more time an experience with an older guy but it feels so much different. With him it was pure lust. I'm not saying lust is bad, on the contrary. But that one feels less of a sin. I'm not putting it theologically, I'm not much of a believer but it warms my heart.

Our connection was always deep but then something occurred and that was a turning point. We got very close. We slept together more times than I can count. Not with the intention of having sex. Has anyone felt cold inside? Needing a hug until the night passes? Something like it. It was difficult for me to say whether I loved him as a parental figure or if lust was involved too. Until very recently that I was horny. Sometimes in nights I think I lose control. Without being drunk or anything, I feel bolder at night. My sexual drive takes control. And I touched him while we were half asleep. He was aware of that. He let me undress me and kiss him. I touched his body but when I tried to reach for other parts (his asshole for example) he stopped me. I didn't know what I would do. I didn't have a plan to fuck him or get fucked, it was my hands that wanted to search. 

He told me not to do that. Not in an angry way. He sounded scared/worried. I felt scared too as if I was trying to harm him. We stayed hugged, we continued. I jerked him till he shot. He told me that this is the first time that it happened to him and he can't explain it. He said that he loves me but he can't have sex with a man. I am confused. I do believe he didn't have any similar encounter with a guy. And our connection hasn't changed. Since then we still sleep together and now we kiss although we weren't before. My question is, could under certain circumstances love feelings backfire and result in a sexual encounter? Could that be answer for all of that?

[Ieatcumholes]

I am SO not in the headspace to answer you properly, but I'm still going to try. YOU have to accept him AT HIS WORD even if his actions might seem to be different! REGARDLESS what YOU might want WITH HIM, you have to honor what he's willing to give to you!

I have had sex with a number of "straight" men in my life. In retrospect, it was JUST SEX for them though. Have you heard of the old saying, "ANY port in a storm?" Even if he DID have sex with you, it wouldn't mean the same thing to him that it apparently would mean to you....

[norefusal]

our two top priorities are always to protect ourselves and to be kind to others. 

you can't force this guy to have sex before he's ready as that will just backfire on you. 

so the ball is in your court now. can you hang out and wait till he's ready knowing that the possibility he may never be is real? are you ok with the status quo? or are you setting yourself up for a fall? only you know. 

[Flared]

24 minutes ago, norefusal said:

you can't force this guy to have sex before he's ready as that will just backfire on you. 

 

No of course I don't want to force him do anything. I think that his love for me makes his sexuality a bit more fluid. He will kiss me, he is comfortable with that, he will even let me touch his body and his dick (but I have noticed in certain occasions). He is not comfortable with anything further.

8 hours ago, Ieatcumholes said:

have had sex with a number of "straight" men in my life. In retrospect, it was JUST SEX for them though. Have you heard of the old saying, "ANY port in a storm?" Even if he DID have sex with you, it wouldn't mean the same thing to him that it apparently would mean to you....

I get what you're saying. I believe that apart from the fact that we love each other (although not exactly romantically) and that makes him do things that he wouldn't do with other guys but with me, he also likes to please me. Or please each other. It's not a matter of becoming one during sex, it's that lust takes over.

[hntnhole]

On 12/13/2023 at 4:24 PM, Flared said:

He sounded scared/worried

I'd call your description an understatement, at the very least.  At 41 years, he already has an "established" pattern to his life, and perhaps he's been wondering about his sexual orientation for quite a while, without daring (for any number of reasons (cultural, religious, etc.) to actually do anything about it.  

On 12/13/2023 at 4:24 PM, Flared said:

He said that he loves me but he can't have sex with a man.

With what information you've given us, I rather doubt he "loves" you in the traditional sense of that word.  More likely, he likes you (maybe very much), but he's terrified of any overt act that he would interpret as confirming what may be his most terrible fears about himself.  I think it's interesting that he allows you to jerk him off - which is an obviously overt sexual act - but draws the line at anything more.  He'll return your kisses, finds comfort in sleeping with you. 

To the "parental" issue, it may be that on your part, it may not.  You'd have to find out more about his motivations, how his mind works, how cultural/religious repressions have stunted his ability to be who he needs to be.  Maybe he's not actually "gay" either, but many of us aren't totally straight or gay either.  To the issue that he doesn't want his ass touched, some committed, very sexually active gay men just don't like their ass fooled with; I happen to be one of them, yet I'm 100% a queer, dedicated Breeding pig.

On 12/13/2023 at 4:24 PM, Flared said:

My question is, could under certain circumstances love feelings backfire and result in a sexual encounter?

It seems there are several issues to resolve before any definitive thoughts can be offered:  

1.  Love is one of the most powerful human experiences.  When anyone (g, st, whatever) is "in love", the need to express that love intimately becomes pressing.  It's why some call fucking "making love".  Love is the paramount quotient for these folks, and expressing it in myriad ways - including sexually - is appropriate.  Lust, on the other hand, is an important driver for folks who embrace their wholeness, and can be expressed in pretty much one way:  sharing sex.  Thus, 'love" is expressed in the totality of their lives, and "lust" is expressed mostly with (any) other similarly-inclined person.  Love and Lust are not the same, interchangeable things.  

2.  

On 12/13/2023 at 4:24 PM, Flared said:

It was difficult for me to say whether I loved him as a parental figure or if lust was involved too.

I'd suggest that you devote some time to figuring that issue out on your own.  By all means, continue with your current m.o. with him, but figure out on your own what you really need/want.  You're young, but you can take all the time you need to ask questions of yourself, and eventually answer them truthfully.  At 19 years, you've probably got a number of emotional issues to resolve intellectually - where in the "grand scheme" do you fit in?  - how to live your life - what's crucial to you - what's important (but not crucial) - what do you really want out of life?  Stuff like that. 

You don't mention what kind of conversations you have with this man, but if you can open up to him, it could be an enriching, positive experience for both of you.  Maybe he won't dare to allow himself to do that, maybe he will.  

In any case, thanks for the post.  It's an interesting issue.  Good luck, and let us hear more from you.  

[Flared]

1 hour ago, hntnhole said:

I'd call your description an understatement, at the very least.  At 41 years, he already has an "established" pattern to his life, and perhaps he's been wondering about his sexual orientation for quite a while, without daring (for any number of reasons (cultural, religious, etc.) to actually do anything about it. 

I think he has been tormented for years by his divorce and the bad relationship with his son. For years he felt more like thinking into these problems than living. His sexual life must have been a bit idle. Sometimes he is hard to read. He seems focused on his career, he seems too serious at times. I think he would be more comfortable not having a relationship again than trying to meet someone.

 

1 hour ago, hntnhole said:

With what information you've given us, I rather doubt he "loves" you in the traditional sense of that word.  More likely, he likes you (maybe very much), but he's terrified of any overt act that he would interpret as confirming what may be his most terrible fears about himself.  I think it's interesting that he allows you to jerk him off - which is an obviously overt sexual act - but draws the line at anything more.  He'll return your kisses, finds comfort in sleeping with you. 

To the "parental" issue, it may be that on your part, it may not.  You'd have to find out more about his motivations, how his mind works, how cultural/religious repressions have stunted his ability to be who he needs to be.  Maybe he's not actually "gay" either, but many of us aren't totally straight or gay either.  To the issue that he doesn't want his ass touched, some committed, very sexually active gay men just don't like their ass fooled with; I happen to be one of them, yet I'm 100% a queer, dedicated Breeding pig.

 Both can be true, can't they? I presume he loves me based on his behavior. He has devoted so much time on me, he really cares for me (and I care for him). I also find interesting that he draws a line in that. Thinking of it a bit metaphorically I think he's trapped inside a statue and every time I make his lust awaken a crack forms and maybe one day I can set him free. I'm searching for a balance of making him feel free to taste it and what would make him feel uncomfortable. I don't believe he is gay. I believe there is a combination of him being traumatized, of his need to give love but his son can't take it and then you have me that I like being protected and I'm gay. In material science we tend to talk about unique properties of a material that appear only in particular conditions. Maybe sexuality could be similar, I dunno.

There are some things that make me happy and sad at the same time. He's told me several time that he wishes his son was like me (we're on the same field but his son did not follow his example). I feel that I antagonize his son in that sense and I don't wanna do this. He will always ask me if I need cash (I would never accept money but I think this is very kind of him) or he will cook for me. He will always message me to ask if everything is okay with my exams, he knows when I'm not well. He cares. He even tells me to get a bf.

1 hour ago, hntnhole said:

I'd call your description an understatement, at the very least.  At 41 years, he already has an "established" pattern to his life, and perhaps he's been wondering about his sexual orientation for quite a while, without daring (for any number of reasons (cultural, religious, etc.) to actually do anything about it.  

With what information you've given us, I rather doubt he "loves" you in the traditional sense of that word.  More likely, he likes you (maybe very much), but he's terrified of any overt act that he would interpret as confirming what may be his most terrible fears about himself.  I think it's interesting that he allows you to jerk him off - which is an obviously overt sexual act - but draws the line at anything more.  He'll return your kisses, finds comfort in sleeping with you. 

To the "parental" issue, it may be that on your part, it may not.  You'd have to find out more about his motivations, how his mind works, how cultural/religious repressions have stunted his ability to be who he needs to be.  Maybe he's not actually "gay" either, but many of us aren't totally straight or gay either.  To the issue that he doesn't want his ass touched, some committed, very sexually active gay men just don't like their ass fooled with; I happen to be one of them, yet I'm 100% a queer, dedicated Breeding pig.

It seems there are several issues to resolve before any definitive thoughts can be offered:  

1.  Love is one of the most powerful human experiences.  When anyone (g, st, whatever) is "in love", the need to express that love intimately becomes pressing.  It's why some call fucking "making love".  Love is the paramount quotient for these folks, and expressing it in myriad ways - including sexually - is appropriate.  Lust, on the other hand, is an important driver for folks who embrace their wholeness, and can be expressed in pretty much one way:  sharing sex.  Thus, 'love" is expressed in the totality of their lives, and "lust" is expressed mostly with (any) other similarly-inclined person.  Love and Lust are not the same, interchangeable things.  

2.  

I'd suggest that you devote some time to figuring that issue out on your own.  By all means, continue with your current m.o. with him, but figure out on your own what you really need/want.  You're young, but you can take all the time you need to ask questions of yourself, and eventually answer them truthfully.  At 19 years, you've probably got a number of emotional issues to resolve intellectually - where in the "grand scheme" do you fit in?  - how to live your life - what's crucial to you - what's important (but not crucial) - what do you really want out of life?  Stuff like that. 

You don't mention what kind of conversations you have with this man, but if you can open up to him, it could be an enriching, positive experience for both of you.  Maybe he won't dare to allow himself to do that, maybe he will.  

In any case, thanks for the post.  It's an interesting issue.  Good luck, and let us hear more from you.  

He talk a lot about science. He guides me. He likes to hear what I have to say. We talk about his son a lot. I try to make him get closer to him, but it's not easy. Sometimes we cook together, we go out together. Once, we 've been in a small trip. They asked us if we're father and son and he said yes. We look very much alike (but I have to say that from the island we come from we have high rates of cousins having children so everyone looks similar)/

[Close2MyBro]

I learned a long time ago if someone is "on the fence" for a while, just let it go. Trust me, I've seen some guys struggle with their desires for sex with men go on for YEARS. Some guys get over it quickly, others take forever. If you're at the point where his acceptance is bothering you, then it's time to walk away and move on to someone else.

[hntnhole]

Thanks, Flared, for the interesting response. 

20 hours ago, Flared said:

I think he has been tormented for years by his divorce and the bad relationship with his son

It sounds like he's trying to carry more burdens than most guys can.  Has he sought professional help with alleviating these issues?  When we try to carry too much at any one time, it's hardly surprising that he's so conflicted.  It might be worth a try.  If you're concerned he could back away, try to come up with some contrivance (oh - you have a buddy who sought counseling, got better, blah blah blah) that would encourage him to find a professional that can help.  If that previous marriage was his only "relationship", and it ended badly, there's little wonder he's skittish about getting into another one.  Obviously, we don't have enough insight here on BZ to offer concrete advice; I'm no professional councellor,    

20 hours ago, Flared said:

Both can be true, can't they?

Of course - I would venture that one can't exist without the other.  Maybe it's varying degrees of attraction?  

If you don't believe he's actually gay, then how is it you believe that you can fully receive "love" from him?  He receives comfort, a kind soul to be present with the added benefit of  physical interaction (including sexually, occasionally), but that's not a definition of "love" that I'm acquainted with.  I don't doubt that he loves you, in a limited way - as much as he's capable of it - but he's apparently carrying a ton of emotional baggage too, which may prevent him from that deeper state of intense love we normally associate with that word. 

Since he tells you to "get a boyfriend", that's the flip side of telling you he doesn't believe he will be able to bring himself to being that to you.  It sounds like he's being upfront with you - he knows what you want, and he doesn't believe he can fulfill role for you.  

I guess it all depends on whether you can accept what he's offering, and be thankful for it.  Romance can have unlimited shades of color, from brilliant red to whatever some soft hue of vague pastel.  Keep an open mind, and you may wind up with both:  a boyfriend and a mentor/friend.  

Thanks for the interesting post !!   Best of luck to you both. 

[Flared]

50 minutes ago, hntnhole said:

It sounds like he's trying to carry more burdens than most guys can.  Has he sought professional help with alleviating these issues?  When we try to carry too much at any one time, it's hardly surprising that he's so conflicted.  It might be worth a try.  If you're concerned he could back away, try to come up with some contrivance (oh - you have a buddy who sought counseling, got better, blah blah blah) that would encourage him to find a professional that can help.  If that previous marriage was his only "relationship", and it ended badly, there's little wonder he's skittish about getting into another one.  Obviously, we don't have enough insight here on BZ to offer concrete advice; I'm no professional councellor, 

Actually I did suggest him to try family therapy because I think it would be useful (my mother is a psychologist so I am really positive towards mental health professionals). He hasn't though. I think his son is also totally against that (I think his son is against everything unless it can be eaten). Well I'm not looking for a professional counsellor here, but I guess someone's fresh eye could provide some useful insight.

55 minutes ago, hntnhole said:

f you don't believe he's actually gay, then how is it you believe that you can fully receive "love" from him?  He receives comfort, a kind soul to be present with the added benefit of  physical interaction (including sexually, occasionally), but that's not a definition of "love" that I'm acquainted with.  I don't doubt that he loves you, in a limited way - as much as he's capable of it - but he's apparently carrying a ton of emotional baggage too, which may prevent him from that deeper state of intense love we normally associate with that word. 

I know that he loves me, I cannot doubt that. I can feel it in his touch, see it in his eyes. Maybe not romantically, but still he does. He likes acting as a parent I feel. Considering my problems his as well. At times I feel his time is too precious to be spent for me because he's a very busy man. Sometimes I worry that if we're seen too often people may start to say weird things. He insists that I should go abroad for some additional studies. I keep on telling him that such things are costly, especially in the beginning and he says that I should not worry about these because he will back me up. I keep on refusing but he believes that it's somehow his responsibility. I don't know if we're both sinking int he delusion that we're father and son or if it's just the way we feel and there is nothing bad about it.

1 hour ago, hntnhole said:

Since he tells you to "get a boyfriend", that's the flip side of telling you he doesn't believe he will be able to bring himself to being that to you.  It sounds like he's being upfront with you - he knows what you want, and he doesn't believe he can fulfill role for you.  

He says many things about that. He says that he's too old to be a bf and that I should experience love with someone. I tell him that he should not think that. I am much more attracted to older men and even if I do get a bf I will always be there for him. I tell him that at nights I get too horny and I crave him. He said he knows and he laughed/smiled. Sometimes I jerk next to him (that's a new one) and he waits until I cum and then I go and take a quick shower. He will let me kiss him or bite him a little. Then he will hug me and tell him to relax. Sometimes I think that if I just grab him and tell him I'm gonna fuck you hard or if I ask him to fuck me that something inside could awaken.

[hntnhole]

2 hours ago, Flared said:

Sometimes I think that if I just grab him and tell him I'm gonna fuck you hard or if I ask him to fuck me that something inside could awaken.

LOL .... yeah, it may very well awaken something in him you wouldn't want to wake up !!! 

2 hours ago, Flared said:

He says that he's too old to be a bf

That's silly ... no matter what moniker you or he attaches to the relationship.  Chronological age has relatively little to do with loving relationships.  

2 hours ago, Flared said:

He likes acting as a parent

Do your own parents take an interest in fulfilling that crucial role?  Does he sense that you need parental care?  Usually, one pair of parents is plenty for most of us.  One thing you haven't mentioned is, has he had any sexual experience at all with other guys?  Has he ever sucked a Cock?  Fucked a guy?  That answer would go a long way to figuring out your next step.  

[Flared]

46 minutes ago, hntnhole said:

LOL .... yeah, it may very well awaken something in him you wouldn't want to wake up !!! 

3 hours ago, Flared said:

D'you think he'd beat me? haha

 

47 minutes ago, hntnhole said:

That's silly ... no matter what moniker you or he attaches to the relationship.  Chronological age has relatively little to do with loving relationships.  

3 hours ago, Flared said:

Well I see some truth in that. I'd worry that if I was "too old" maybe that would be a problem for my boyfriend. So I think I understand what he means, but I don't mind.

 

48 minutes ago, hntnhole said:

Do your own parents take an interest in fulfilling that crucial role?  Does he sense that you need parental care?  Usually, one pair of parents is plenty for most of us.  One thing you haven't mentioned is, has he had any sexual experience at all with other guys?  Has he ever sucked a Cock?  Fucked a guy?  That answer would go a long way to figuring out your next step.  

My father died several years ago. But he loved me very much. And my mother is always there for me. When my father died I felt responsible for my family. He knows all that. He was pretty much there when all these happened. 

No he never had anything with a guy, minus me jerking him off. I tend to believe that it's just his need to love a son and me to have a father that forged this bond. And maybe it's too strong and it backfires. I'm a gay guy. It's difficult not to like a man that is attractive.

There is something else that is a theory of mine (or of someone else's if it has ever been discussed I don't know). I tend to believe that when two guys have a connection that includes an age gap and the young guy has some sex appeal, the potential dominant/protective feelings of the older guy could be expressed sexually, even if he's str8. I don't know how to express it better than that, but somehow I believe this. 

[hntnhole]

On 12/16/2023 at 3:37 PM, Flared said:

a problem for my boyfriend

Had you mentioned prior that you already have a boyfriend?  

[Flared]

11 hours ago, hntnhole said:

Had you mentioned prior that you already have a boyfriend?  

I don't. I meant that if I had one, I would possibly consider my age (if I was older than him) as a potential problem.