Tiergarten - be cautious.

[AirmaxUK]

Berlin is often seen as a paradise because of the culture,  clubs, bars, and big events like BLF, Folsom, CSD, and Hustlaball this last weekend. It has a dark side too... 

Last Monday I was at a loose end in the evening and since there was nothing interesting on at the clubs and bars, I decided to go cruise the park at Tiergarten and had just arrived there when I heard loud voices from over near the ping pong tables. I didn't understand what was being said but you could tell it really wasn't friendly. I figured it was maybe some drunks or something and circled away from the area for a bit.

After 15-20 minutes I cautiously headed back toward the cruising area, listening carefully, and could hear no more shouting. Then, suddenly, someone turned on a bright torch and was shining it at me and shouted 'hey hey'.  I decided to exit to the nearest road and walked up a path to Altonauer Strasse. As I did, I was aware someone was behind me and closing in which made me really uncomfortable.  I side stepped and stopped suddenly ready to confront him, but the guy hurriedly carried on past me up the path to the street. I figured he too was making a quick exit. I left a distance and walked up to the street, where he was stood still, playing with his phone. I walked past him trying to keep a distance to avoid him but he spoke to me and said something which again I didn't understand. I walked off feeling safer being on a brightly lit street.

I must've only got a few steps away when a car pulled up sharp just ahead of me and two guys got out - obviously very angry. There was a confrontation - one held me so I couldn't get away.  When they realized I don't speak German they switched to broken English - "I will kill you for what you did. I have a gun and I will shoot you dead right now. Admit what you did to him." He was pointing at the guy with the phone I passed moments before. Over and over with shouting, pushing, shoving and hitting.

I got an opportunity to break free and ran into the road - figuring maybe someone would stop and help - or at least see what was happening.  As luck would have it, the traffic lights had changed - so there was no traffic! The guys came for me again and this time he hit me hard at my temple. I went down and one of them - maybe it was the phone guy - was shouting leave him, leave him, go, go so they got back into their car and left me stumbling in the road toward siegesaule.

I was in shock and my mind was all over the place. Somehow it then occurred to me to grab my phone and dial 112 - which I started to do -- but being in shock I struggled and fumbled around with it.  Their car sped past me and then they must've seen the phone in my hand as it stopped abruptly and the door opened and they guy was screaming something about 'take a fucking picture'.  At this point the traffic lights must've changed and the general traffic caught up to us - the car sped off again.

Shaking, I walked in the bus lane and was waving at passing taxi's to try and get one to stop. None did.  I spotted a bus stop where there was some people stood and I headed that way.  I sat in the shelter and the people there were trying their best to ignore me. A bus came and I rode a few stops to get some distance between me and Tiergarten.

No permanent physical damage - bruising, swelling, and a jaw that hurts to open wide.   Mentally, it may take a time for me to be as comfortable as I was walking alone at night in the city.

I went to Maneo/Man-o-meter today to report the incident as they encourage reports on this kind of thing.  The guys there were sympathetic but said this kind of thing is happening more and more frequently.  

Reflecting on it, my initial reaction was 'I am being robbed' but they guys made no attempt to take anything.  Honestly they could have beaten me a lot worse.  I think this was done to scare and intimidate. I think it was a team with 'phone guy' marking me and tipping them off. 

I'm not here to say 'Don't go cruising in Tiergarten, it's too dangerous' - that way they are the ones who win. It does seem everyone I talked to who cruises has an 'I was attacked at Tiergarten' story. I think I'd become too comfortable with Berlin and my guard was down too far. Just be aware that this sort of thing is on the increase. Don't go alone.  And if it seems a bit suspect or someone's behaviors is a bit off - err on the side of caution.

I realize I am no longer young enough to outrun trouble - so risk has to be managed accordingly.  There are plenty of safe places to cruise in Berlin, like Lab, Scheune, Bull, Woof, New Action to name a few.   

Sorry this is long and rambling but it has been somewhat therapeutic to write it down and get it out of my head.  I just hope someone is more careful as a result of reading it and avoids trouble themselves. 

 

[MKSub24]

You have had a awful experience and we all need to learn from this. Thank you for sharing and I hope that you will make a quick recovery both physically and mentally. 

[1hornyjohn]

54 minutes ago, AirmaxUK said:

Berlin is often seen as a paradise because of the culture,  clubs, bars, and big events like BLF, Folsom, CSD, and Hustlaball this last weekend. It has a dark side too... 

Last Monday I was at a loose end in the evening and since there was nothing interesting on at the clubs and bars, I decided to go cruise the park at Tiergarten and had just arrived there when I heard loud voices from over near the ping pong tables. I didn't understand what was being said but you could tell it really wasn't friendly. I figured it was maybe some drunks or something and circled away from the area for a bit.

After 15-20 minutes I cautiously headed back toward the cruising area, listening carefully, and could hear no more shouting. Then, suddenly, someone turned on a bright torch and was shining it at me and shouted 'hey hey'.  I decided to exit to the nearest road and walked up a path to Altonauer Strasse. As I did, I was aware someone was behind me and closing in which made me really uncomfortable.  I side stepped and stopped suddenly ready to confront him, but the guy hurriedly carried on past me up the path to the street. I figured he too was making a quick exit. I left a distance and walked up to the street, where he was stood still, playing with his phone. I walked past him trying to keep a distance to avoid him but he spoke to me and said something which again I didn't understand. I walked off feeling safer being on a brightly lit street.

I must've only got a few steps away when a car pulled up sharp just ahead of me and two guys got out - obviously very angry. There was a confrontation - one held me so I couldn't get away.  When they realized I don't speak German they switched to broken English - "I will kill you for what you did. I have a gun and I will shoot you dead right now. Admit what you did to him." He was pointing at the guy with the phone I passed moments before. Over and over with shouting, pushing, shoving and hitting.

I got an opportunity to break free and ran into the road - figuring maybe someone would stop and help - or at least see what was happening.  As luck would have it, the traffic lights had changed - so there was no traffic! The guys came for me again and this time he hit me hard at my temple. I went down and one of them - maybe it was the phone guy - was shouting leave him, leave him, go, go so they got back into their car and left me stumbling in the road toward siegesaule.

I was in shock and my mind was all over the place. Somehow it then occurred to me to grab my phone and dial 112 - which I started to do -- but being in shock I struggled and fumbled around with it.  Their car sped past me and then they must've seen the phone in my hand as it stopped abruptly and the door opened and they guy was screaming something about 'take a fucking picture'.  At this point the traffic lights must've changed and the general traffic caught up to us - the car sped off again.

Shaking, I walked in the bus lane and was waving at passing taxi's to try and get one to stop. None did.  I spotted a bus stop where there was some people stood and I headed that way.  I sat in the shelter and the people there were trying their best to ignore me. A bus came and I rode a few stops to get some distance between me and Tiergarten.

No permanent physical damage - bruising, swelling, and a jaw that hurts to open wide.   Mentally, it may take a time for me to be as comfortable as I was walking alone at night in the city.

I went to Maneo/Man-o-meter today to report the incident as they encourage reports on this kind of thing.  The guys there were sympathetic but said this kind of thing is happening more and more frequently.  

Reflecting on it, my initial reaction was 'I am being robbed' but they guys made no attempt to take anything.  Honestly they could have beaten me a lot worse.  I think this was done to scare and intimidate. I think it was a team with 'phone guy' marking me and tipping them off. 

I'm not here to say 'Don't go cruising in Tiergarten, it's too dangerous' - that way they are the ones who win. It does seem everyone I talked to who cruises has an 'I was attacked at Tiergarten' story. I think I'd become too comfortable with Berlin and my guard was down too far. Just be aware that this sort of thing is on the increase. Don't go alone.  And if it seems a bit suspect or someone's behaviors is a bit off - err on the side of caution.

I realize I am no longer young enough to outrun trouble - so risk has to be managed accordingly.  There are plenty of safe places to cruise in Berlin, like Lab, Scheune, Bull, Woof, New Action to name a few.   

Sorry this is long and rambling but it has been somewhat therapeutic to write it down and get it out of my head.  I just hope someone is more careful as a result of reading it and avoids trouble themselves. 

 

So sorry to hear of your horrible experience.  Hope the bruises etc heal soon.

Take care xx

[AirmaxUK]

2 hours ago, 1hornyjohn said:

So sorry to hear of your horrible experience.  Hope the bruises etc heal soon.

Take care xx

A few days have passed. Lots of G&T have been consumed. And a good night at Bull tonight. I'm getting back to normal... 

[Spunkinmyarse]

Cool- what a horrible experience, but glad to hear it hasn’t put you off your stride, @AirmaxUK

One question- were there many other cruisers there? Or did you not really get that far? I’ve always felt there’s “safety in numbers” in these kind of situations (much like Hampstead Heath), but it sounds like I might be deluding myself a bit…

[DJ2023]

So sorry to hear of your horrible experience. I hope the physical and mental scars heal soon. I am not long back from Berlin myself and am now more aware of the potential dangers.

Must admit I am a bit crap at cruising, but it is still good to know.

[PrisonbaiT]

Sorry for what happened to you, hopefully you recover real quick, also mentaly.  Also here in Belgium there is an increase on gay people leaving clubs, sauna's or cruising parks. The numbers are rising here already the last year. We will have to be vigil.

[AirmaxUK]

1 hour ago, Spunkinmyarse said:

One question- were there many other cruisers there? Or did you not really get that far? I’ve always felt there’s “safety in numbers” in these kind of situations (much like Hampstead Heath), but it sounds like I might be deluding myself a bit…

Initially it was quite busy - I was hopeful -  then when the noise started it got quiet real quick. Like me, I guessed people left the area to go home or try again later.  When I circled back a bit later it was very quiet - which in hindsight should have been a red flag. 

[SpectreAgent]

12 minutes ago, AirmaxUK said:

Initially it was quite busy - I was hopeful -  then when the noise started it got quiet real quick. Like me, I guessed people left the area to go home or try again later.  When I circled back a bit later it was very quiet - which in hindsight should have been a red flag. 

I’ve never been. How does it compare vis-a-vis Hampstead? I’ve never had any problems like that at Hampstead, although I know there have been periodic reports of trouble there. 

[Spunkinmyarse]

I think the main difference between the two is that the Tiergarten cruising area around the ping pong tables is quite open and, as @AirmaxUK point out, it’s quite close to a well-lit main road. While you would think this would make it safer, it clearly lends itself more to “drive-by” harassment incidents like this one.

The main cruising area in HH is quite far from the road, and is difficult to find unless you know it. Any gang of would-be harassers would have to park their car, make their way down a steep hill through trees and bushes in almost total darkness, and then have to run back up that hill in order to make their getaway. Plus there is often a police presence at HH- the Heath has its own police force, and I’ve sometimes seen their cars parked in the Jack Straw’s Castle car park. Contrary to what a lot of people think, they are not there to harass the cruisers (HH is a recognized PSE, so cruising is largely tolerated after dark)- but more to ‘preserve the peace’.

I’ve always felt pretty safe on HH- but then again, everywhere feels safe until it isn’t. The only part of the Heath that gives me the heebie-jeebies these days is the walk down to the fuck tree, as no-one seems to go there anymore, and you do feel quite alone. If you are very unlucky, I think it’s much more likely that you’ll get into trouble with a lone-wolf type character on HH than a gang of homophobic troublemakers.

Edited October 25 by Spunkinmyarse

[Londoncumdump10]

@Spunkinmyarse Jeeze you’re so experienced LOL. But I agree with everything you have said. I never feel scared at HH although times have changed. But you’re right it’s not people I fear my biggest fear is some wolf or something. And also if you don’t know where the fuck tree is. I think I have forgotten myself you can get lost. I haven’t been in over 10 years now so I don’t know how it compares to now, but the last time I was there I had met someone from the King William who ended up being my pimp and we would drive down and I would walk around in my Jock strap. I think that night i took like 8 loads and could have taken more. 

Edited October 25 by Londoncumdump10

[SpectreAgent]

Having never been to Berlin, I was just curious about the differences.

Like everyone else, I’ve always felt safe at Hampstead Heath. There were vague rumours of assaults there several years ago but I’m not sure how credible they were. I’ve certainly never come across anything like that down there.

I used to visit Barton Mills back in the 90s. That was a great spot as it was situated between two USAF airbases (Lakenheath and Mildenhall) and attracted some very fit US airmen. There was a guy murdered there once who’d been cruising (around ‘94, if memory serves) but that’s about the only horrible thing I’ve come across in my “career”. 

[SpectreAgent]

On a more humorous side note, I’m reminded of staggering down the hill to catch the first Tube after a night on the Heath (not for the first time…) It was still dark but I snatched a photo of one of those old alleyways that lead off from the road and felt very proud of myself because, in black and white, it looked very Dickensian. No skill on my part, I must add - just a lucky point and shoot. I showed it to a strait laced work colleague who was impressed.

”That’s fantastic,” he said. “Where is it?”“Hampstead. About 5am,” I said without thinking. 
“Oh?” he said. “What were you doing in Hampstead at that time?”

“I, er… I was at a party that ran on late…” 

[AirmaxUK]

On 10/25/2024 at 11:50 AM, Spunkinmyarse said:

but then again, everywhere feels safe until it isn’t. 

In the past, I always felt safe at Tiergarten - had loads of fun there and never any trouble. There's usually a decent number of guys there - so safety in numbers... until someone scares everyone away and they can pick on individuals. 

Got me thinking back to the 90's - didn't we have 'Pink Angels' or something to help with this sort of thing?

[AirmaxUK]

23 hours ago, SpectreAgent said:

Having never been to Berlin, I was just curious about the differences.

Like everyone else, I’ve always felt safe at Hampstead Heath. There were vague rumours of assaults there several years ago but I’m not sure how credible they were. I’ve certainly never come across anything like that down there.

I used to visit Barton Mills back in the 90s. That was a great spot as it was situated between two USAF airbases (Lakenheath and Mildenhall) and attracted some very fit US airmen. There was a guy murdered there once who’d been cruising (around ‘94, if memory serves) but that’s about the only horrible thing I’ve come across in my “career”. 

Reminds me of a lifetime ago in the 90's  I used to go to a gay pub in Ealing that was next to a graveyard - It was common for guys to have a few to drink in the pub and head next door for some cruising - that was until someone's body was found there - beaten and stabbed, if I recall.  After that - not so much. 

There's lots of little things that make me think gay life peaked and we're headed back to where we were.  I've experienced three physical incidents since Covid - and that's not counting any of verbal stuff or even everyday passive-aggressive resistance which seems to be on the rise.  

Edited October 26 by AirmaxUK