Trump wins bigly, world to end tomorrow...

[BootmanLA]

On 11/9/2024 at 2:00 PM, pozlvr27 said:

President elect Trump , to my knowledge , has yet to say what he plans to do about the January 6th hostages/criminals , depending on your point of view , once he becomes the President again. Any thoughts ? 

"To my knowledge". LOL

This is something so readily discernable from, oh, I don't know, a thousand news stories over the past year that to think he has "yet to say" what he plans to do is a pretty enormous self-own. Sorry, but anyone who doesn't know what he said he was going to do about them has not been paying any attention at all to the world around themselves.

[BootmanLA]

16 hours ago, barefucker44 said:

Nobody should be censored

Depends on how you define "censored."

If you mean "by the government": absolutely.

But that's not really what the Reich Wing is concerned about. They're pissed off that companies don't want to advertise on a site that welcomes actual Nazis and White Supremacists, having their ads appear along side that disgusting trash.

The other thing they're pissed off about is that some companies simply don't want that kind of garbage to appear on their sites, period, and as owners of those sites, they choose not to allow it. And that pisses off the Nazis and White Supremacists. 

[BootmanLA]

15 hours ago, ktopper said:

Hopefully we get our inflation under control.

It already is under control. The problem is that too many Americans are so poorly educated that they think "getting inflation under control" means "bringing back prices to the levels they were before inflation".

16 hours ago, ktopper said:

Dismissing financially stressed manual laborers as ignorant uneducated louts who should have gotten an education so they could get better paying jobs is unfair. Back in the '60s, '70s, or '80s people raised families, bought groceries, paid rent, and even took vacations working those same jobs. I myself only have a high school education (on paper anyway) and did manual labor jobs my entire life, a lot of it self employed on a contract basis and always did rather well.

They did indeed. But the rich and powerful decided that a normal return on their investments that gave them enough income for a home, three or four cars, a summer place, and funds to travel wasn't enough. They wanted a place in Aspen and in Maine and in Italy and Hawaii, and fourteen cars including at least four or five six-figure Italian sports cars and enough money to support having three mistresses and all the cocaine they could snort up their fat noses. So they pushed for a multi-pronged approach: tax cuts that jacked up the deficit, union busting that decimated working people's wages vis a vis inflation, and all sorts of other things designed to funnel money and power up, rather than down. That's why families can't make it on those blue collar jobs any longer.

16 hours ago, ktopper said:

I have respect for working class people. I am one. They are not to blame for their current condition. A system that has devalued their worth to the point of poverty is to blame. Bringing in disadvantaged third world workers to replace them while subjecting them to the same conditions is not an answer. When the masses have nothing left to lose the Man on Horseback who promises them something better will have their ear, even if that demagogue is himself filthy rich. And this latest election went a long way toward proving that this current dissatisfaction crosses racial and ethnic boundaries, the average working class White has a hell of a lot more in common with working class Blacks and Hispanics than with the self appointed elites. I guarantee if it comes down to the nut-cutting Black, White, and Hispanic will be manning the barricades together. I hope it doesn't come to that. War is ugly.

I agree, except insofar as it's been well demonstrated that there are some jobs that people in this country will not do for any amount. Twenty years ago or so, Alabama decided to crack down on migrant labor (in a state with a substantial agricultural economy). Migrants wisely refused to go to Alabama to work for fear of being arrested and turned over to ICE, and farmers could not pay enough to American workers to get them into the fields to harvest things. Hundreds of millions of dollars of crops rotted and many a farmer went bankrupt because no one, other than migrants who came from places with even lower wages, was willing to work that kind of work. Even when the farmers were offering double and triple the minimum wage.

Not surprisingly, who were the winners? The big giant agricultural entities, who could buy up the bankrupt farms and consolidate them and fake the payroll records to keep the undocumented workers from getting deported long enough to get the harvest in.

Undocumented immigration probably DOES hurt job prospects for Americans in some areas, like construction - but again, talk to any contractor in the deep South and they'll tell you that it's almost impossible to find a good steady work crew, even at skilled labor wages. People THINK the immigrants are taking all the jobs, but it's largely (though not entirely) the jobs no one here really will do.

[BootmanLA]

9 hours ago, pozlvr27 said:

The statement you posted was said before he was elected President again. All he has talked about since being reelected Tuesday is that he wants to deport millions of illegal migrants. Not one word so far about pardons for the January 6th mob . 

So you're saying you don't expect him to keep his campaign promises? That he's a liar? Well, surprise. We knew that.

[PozBearWI]

Ah my friend @BootmanLA...  Do I detect a bit of snarky coming through?  If so about f'n time.  🙂  

Thanks; sanity is hot...  

[BootmanLA]

The leopards are in for a feast, @PozBearWI. Faces galore.

[TaKinGDeePanal]

7 hours ago, nanana said:

Hi @BergenGuy, 

can you give some examples, and can you comment on whether the government practices censorship whether or not it’s illegal?

thanks!

Brandenburg v. Ohio 395 U.S. 444 (1969) allows limits in speech if it incites imminent unlawful action. Seems that it's either been forgotten - or the govt is backsliding into fascism, homophobia, and bigotry: [think before following links] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/schenk_v_united_states_(1919)

[nanana]

1 hour ago, BootmanLA said:

Away from name-callers? Did you actually hear anything that Trump said in the last ten years?

@BootmanLA, I appreciate your argumentation, which is factually formidable but feels incapable of a universal empathy.  It rarely feels as if we are going to land on some new insight V/R, usually feels  to someone with my strengths and weaknesses as if some dated insight is going to be regurgitated.  But to play to your strengths, I do not conceal that Trump has a penchant for creating less-than-affectionate nicknames. Perhaps my attempt to distinguish "woke" stumbled on something more representative of a variety of individuals not pegged to a single group.  I    will try harder next time to distill the essentials of "woke" and concede your point.    

1 hour ago, NEDenver said:

Nanana is upset at attempts to remove misinformation and disinformation because without those, there’s no way for a right winger to maintain a semi-coherent world view.

NEDenver arrogates all of the insights to his side, which convinces me that there will be no interesting give and take to arrive at a new profound understanding.  Feeling sublime and not upset in the least, I wish the out-of-luck left-wingers much joy in their failed semi-coherence, which perhaps they are too lofty to be introspective about.  Street-sense / elite-sense... so many good options and paths to gaining a deep understanding of the world.  Sadly, the left-wingers usually kow-tow to expertise and authority to gain their self-value.  We are all touching a man's nether-regions, and to my way of experiencing it feels like a hole.  To another's way of experiencing, it feels like a worm or maybe a big tree.  Actually, it's both, and I  pity those who only see either/or and not both.  I  leave you to your bitterness or your explosion of discovery about how to move us all forward.  

[nanana]

1 hour ago, BootmanLA said:

It already is under control. The problem is that too many Americans are so poorly educated that they think "getting inflation under control" means "bringing back prices to the levels they were before inflation".

a very brainy, but not so hearty, answer, I guess if I can no longer afford beef, I should call boatman to be corrected about my perceptions about the quality of my life.  

[BlueSaphir]

14 hours ago, pozlvr27 said:

The statement you posted was said before he was elected President again. All he has talked about since being reelected Tuesday is that he wants to deport millions of illegal migrants. Not one word so far about pardons for the January 6th mob . 

He won’t do anything for them. They are suckers in his eyes. 

[ktopper]

8 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

Quote

It already is under control. The problem is that too many Americans are so poorly educated that they think "getting inflation under control" means "bringing back prices to the levels they were before inflation".

Barely! While not at Zimbabwean levels it was still painful for working class Americans. And no, we cannot simply go back to former levels. To do so would create a deflationary depression which according to those guys with the big brains is not good. I can sort of understand that, although I am an uneducated old redneck and not an economist. Most people fail to understand exactly what inflation really is. They think it is a deficit that must be repaid. The truth is you pay for it as it happens. A 10% inflation rate means 10% of your income or other assets have just been stolen.

Quote

They did indeed. But the rich and powerful decided that a normal return on their investments that gave them enough income for a home, three or four cars, a summer place, and funds to travel wasn't enough. They wanted a place in Aspen and in Maine and in Italy and Hawaii, and fourteen cars including at least four or five six-figure Italian sports cars and enough money to support having three mistresses and all the cocaine they could snort up their fat noses. So they pushed for a multi-pronged approach: tax cuts that jacked up the deficit, union busting that decimated working people's wages vis a vis inflation, and all sorts of other things designed to funnel money and power up, rather than down. That's why families can't make it on those blue collar jobs any longer.

Not much to disagree with here. All of that is obvious. I would add that the rich and powerful have gained control of the government, the formerly powerful but now largely irrelevant legacy news and entertainment media, the judicial system, and the education system which they have largely turned into an indoctrination system. A given societal structure can only be stressed so far before it breaks. And once Western Civilization does break things are going to get rather barbaric. As in hangman's nooses, firing squads, and other assorted unruly behavior, even the "blood eagle" may come out to play. I'm not talking about racial conflicts here, it will be more of a mass uprising against a system that is oppressing us all, that is one reason the so called deep state keeps pushing identity politics, they want to keep us divided. Think it can't happen or is unlikely to happen? I hope you are right. But I wouldn't bet on it. Perhaps Trump is the safety valve we needed, a way to release some of the pressure.

Quote

 

I agree, except insofar as it's been well demonstrated that there are some jobs that people in this country will not do for any amount. Twenty years ago or so, Alabama decided to crack down on migrant labor (in a state with a substantial agricultural economy). Migrants wisely refused to go to Alabama to work for fear of being arrested and turned over to ICE, and farmers could not pay enough to American workers to get them into the fields to harvest things. Hundreds of millions of dollars of crops rotted and many a farmer went bankrupt because no one, other than migrants who came from places with even lower wages, was willing to work that kind of work. Even when the farmers were offering double and triple the minimum wage.

Not surprisingly, who were the winners? The big giant agricultural entities, who could buy up the bankrupt farms and consolidate them and fake the payroll records to keep the undocumented workers from getting deported long enough to get the harvest in.

 

It is not so much that people won't do those jobs as it is they won't do them for shit wages that they can't exist on. I myself have done those jobs as a young man, both sides of my family grew up doing them. Saying Americans won't do those jobs is bullshit so quit lying about it.

Quote

Undocumented immigration probably DOES hurt job prospects for Americans in some areas, like construction -

Gosh, ya thank?

Quote

but again, talk to any contractor in the deep South and they'll tell you that it's almost impossible to find a good steady work crew, even at skilled labor wages. People THINK the immigrants are taking all the jobs, but it's largely (though not entirely) the jobs no one here really will do.

See above.

 

[PozBearWI]

If we substitute "World to Change tomorrow" for "World to End tomorrow" in the opening premise of this thread; I think that is more descriptive of our future.  

I thought we pretty well established that the President Elect is unpredictable.  He see's that as a strength; and for him, it is.  For the rest of us?  Not so much.  Safe to say a lot of shit is going to happen which won't bode well for at least half of us.  Hopefully we'll gain some general understanding of how each "half" of our social opinion applies to a different list of individuals; and that there are many ways to define those 'half's" all boiling down to 70 - 80 percent of us.  Once we recognize each other in that way again; maybe all this insanity will settle down.  

We just don't know what will happen until it happens.  Indeed some of the things he says he will do he does.  More of them he doesn't.  I doubt he is going to "lock Hilary up".  But likely he will pardon his friends where he can.  How will the positions he fills with friends with warped perceptions about their new domain; and I am thinking RFK here; impact how those domains continue to operate?  It won't be as if a switch was suddenly turned.  The ripple effect is where we are going to start to experience it.  Thus, we might anticipate a new pandemic as we once again; hobble our international cooperation at containing emerging pandemics.  Another late term gift to the world.  History has often seen a sudden population decline.  And perhaps it will be that which alters our course.  

Important to recall that while the President has substantial power, so also do Governors.  We have deeply rooted into our governmental systems that whole, oft forgotten, states rights thing.  🙂  So much like health, there are layers of checks and balances, not just the one.  Further, the R party wants more controls given to individual states and out of federal control.  Further, states have counties, counties have municipalities.  It isn't all done in one place here in the US.  

I believe as deporting is big on his mind, he may start that.  However I believe many of his fellow billionaires are pretty dependent upon those immigrants to remain profitable and frankly, to stay in business.  True entry level jobs for things many amongst us prefer to not do go to those immigrants.  The true "American Dream" stories are the rags to riches ones.  Who and how are still TBD.

Attempts to reduce by legislation progress about climate issues will once again trip up.  

Overall as a society?  Can we as a society experience a national "aw shit" moment and change our course?  Time will tell.  We may be reliant again upon the entertainment industry to do what "All in the Family" did in shifting social attitudes.  If that can somehow break into our TikTok world...

Globally, how NATO treats us will be important not only to watch, but to attempt to influence.  With good reason some of our allies will take the position that America has turned against us.  Fortunately the global corporations will be filling the gaps to keep their success going, even if 47 is partnering with his fellow authoritarian buddies.  

[viking8x6]

6 hours ago, ktopper said:

Quote

It already is under control...

Barely! While not at Zimbabwean levels it was still painful for working class Americans.

Please note that the verb tenses here don't match!

Yes, it was painful. And it still is painful, because prices are still that much higher than they were pre-pandemic.

But it is under control; the rate of inflation of the US CPI over the last year was well under 3 percent.

The good news is that wage growth is now substantially higher than that 3 percent, so if that can be maintained (and there is no reason to think it can't) people in the working class will be able to afford things again in a year or three. Whether or not they'll perceive their situation as acceptable after that is another question.

[NEDenver]

15 minutes ago, viking8x6 said:

Please note that the verb tenses here don't match!

Yes, it was painful. And it still is painful, because prices are still that much higher than they were pre-pandemic.

But it is under control; the rate of inflation of the US CPI over the last year was well under 3 percent.

The good news is that wage growth is now substantially higher than that 3 percent, so if that can be maintained (and there is no reason to think it can't) people in the working class will be able to afford things again in a year or three. Whether or not they'll perceive their situation as acceptable after that is another question.

It won’t be sustained by design.  It was only that high because Biden has been the most worker friendly President in 50 years.  That experiment is over.  Trump is against any labor protection and advocates for breaking unions, as does his boytoy Elon.  Without labor organization, wage growth will go way down.  Last time, Trump left the NLRB unstaffed and nonfunctional.  We’d be very lucky this time for mere neglect.  Republicans control everything, and they’ve been trying to get rid of labor power altogether since Reagan.

Leopards are going to feast.  Hell, Leopards are already feasting as companies prepare for the tariffs Trump voters want, and workers are losing jobs or money.  The rest of us should be expecting drastically higher prices as Trumpflation kicks off.

[BootmanLA]

15 hours ago, nanana said:

a very brainy, but not so hearty, answer, I guess if I can no longer afford beef, I should call boatman to be corrected about my perceptions about the quality of my life.  

Again, getting inflation under control is not the same thing as lowering prices. I don't know why that's so hard for people to grasp, but here we are.

I'm not arguing that (some) people are not feeling an economic pinch (though blame for that pinch is, as usual, woefully mis-targeted. I'm pointing out the fact (not arguing) that the problem is not the one people are naming. We could reduce inflation to ZERO and yet beef would be the same price it is today.