Chuckybb Posted February 8 Report Posted February 8 Okay, so this is really a question for people with medical knowledge (or more medical knowledge than me). I take Doxycycline 200mg after any bareback sessions. I'm bottom only. I know from experience and from other threads that it doesn't provide much protection for Gonorrea. So, my question is this. In Spain where I live, most saunas have douching facilities. If, after taking loads, I were to thoroughly douche before leaving, am I minimising the risk of gono infection or does it not really work that way?
fuckholedc Posted February 8 Report Posted February 8 (edited) I am not a doctor or a biomedical professional but I have a math background as well as a degree of knowledge in biomathematics. Douching was discussed in the early days of HIV infection and most doctors said, probably erroneously, that douching might push infected sperm deeper into the rectum. However there were some people who anecdotally claim that they staved off HIV infection for a longer time by doing this. However to my knowledge, douching as a possible preventative infection method was never really studied. I can't find anything that says how fast the gonorrhea bacteria is absorbed in the rectum. Doxypep apparently reduces the spread of gonorrhea by 55-60% BUT there are of course doxy resistant strains, to the point where doxycycline is no longer recommended to use in the presence of gonorrhea infection. And we are seeing a massive uptick in gonorrhea transmission among M2M sex. Going to a sauna and getting fucked is usually an hours long activity for most people. Therefore douching at the end of the session is not likely to work. What about douching after every load? Doctors will tell you no. But again, there is the unresolved question of the rapidity of actual infection in the presence of gonorrhea bacteria (there really must be a study on this somewhere though). In Spain > 70% of gonorrhea infection is specifically M2M (this is possibly as low as 55% though; in Barcelona 75% of all gonorrhea infection is M2M and this metric should be used in all M2M concentrated cities). There is a range of infection probabilities from 60%-90% for receptive anal intercourse. Therefore you (and everyone) should assume a 90% probability of infection as a bottom PER FUCK with a person who has gonorrhea. The only good news is that a back of the envelope estimate (so a guess, but not an unreasonable one) shows that only 1 in 1000 men who fuck with men (so both tops and bottoms) have gonorrhea infection. If we add in tourists to Spain though this drops to 4 in 10,000. So you could be safer than you might think. There are in fact papers that discuss the effects of circuit parties on an uptick in gonorrhea infection that actually seem to reflect unexpectedly low increases in infection. Likely this reflects that while every Gay/Bi/Curious male who wants to fuck or get fucked is now fucking, close to everyone is getting tested (however this might still vary by age). Edited February 8 by fuckholedc
Chuckybb Posted February 8 Author Report Posted February 8 Thank you for your message. Very informative.
TallAussieBtm Posted February 8 Report Posted February 8 5 hours ago, fuckholedc said: ...close to everyone is getting tested (however this might still vary by age) Great post. I'd agree with and am comforted by this statement in relation to European guys, where healthcare is free or, at least, affordable. Not sure it's so true in the USA, though. Where many seem to opt out of healthcare due to cost. (Not to mention the fetishisation of bug chasing, which may or may not be a real thing in practice!) Whatever the reason, I get the distinct impression many US guys are flying blind - and happily gave me 2 x STIs, including gonorrhoea, on an Atlantis cruise last year, despite DoxyPeP! Actually, my first ever confirmed STIs after nearly 50 years of M2M fucking! 😡 1
fuckholedc Posted February 8 Report Posted February 8 (edited) 50 minutes ago, TallAussieBtm said: Whatever the reason, I get the distinct impression many US guys are flying blind - and happily gave me 2 x STIs, including gonorrhoea, on an Atlantis cruise last year, despite DoxyPeP! Actually, my first ever confirmed STIs after nearly 50 years of M2M fucking! 😡 Really? Most M2M gonorrhea infections are asymptomatic. The only time I had gonorrhea this was true for me as well. I am going back in my medical record to calculate a useable risk metric for myself. The R0 (transmission rate) for gonorrhea is listed as 2, meaning that one infectious person infects 2 other people. Also est. gonorrhea infection annually for M2M varies between 11-16%. This seems to be true worldwide. It is also concentrated in younger people. This is attributed to 18-29 yr olds having the most self-reported sex but this pattern has almost certainly changed (since basically everyone can have a lot of sex now and are doing so). There can be outbreaks and maybe this happened on this cruise. But without drilling down these numbers look like they would drive a higher transmission rate overall. 16% works out to about 3-4/10,000 M2M actively infected on any given day. But the R0 only 2 has to mean that there is a percentage (maybe a significant percentage) of asymptomatic people who are spontaneously shedding the infection (and I saw a paper about this today). Edited February 9 by fuckholedc 1
TallAussieBtm Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 10 hours ago, fuckholedc said: Really? Most M2M gonorrhea infections are asymptomatic. Well, perhaps the immediate symptoms that led me to the sexual health clinic post-cruise were from the other STI (HSV2) but the tests certainly said gonorrhoea as well; and the treatment and diagnosis certainly included gonorrhoea! ⚕️💉💊😬
fuckholedc Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 (edited) 5 hours ago, TallAussieBtm said: Well, perhaps the immediate symptoms that led me to the sexual health clinic post-cruise were from the other STI (HSV2) but the tests certainly said gonorrhoea as well; and the treatment and diagnosis certainly included gonorrhoea! ⚕️💉💊😬 Sure, of course. I'm not doubting that you had gonorrhoea. I was just surprised though that for M2M most of the time the symptoms are not apparent. Edited February 9 by fuckholedc
JockstrapBottom Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 Also a total bottom here. I posted this in the health forum on Friday. A new study from January says DoxyPEP reduced chlamydia rates by 79% and syphilis rates by 80%. For gonorrhea, reduction in rates was 44% in the penis, 19% in the rectum, but did not reduce infection in the mouth/throat. I'm not sure how effective douching afterwards would be? I guess the idea would be to flush out the cum / bacteria before it had a chance to do anything. However it wouldn't have 100% removal and could just push everything deeper? I'll just stick with doxy even with the reduced effectiveness. Link to the paper: [think before following links] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2828994?lid=wcx4wi1ftdcs 1
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