The non partisan economy

[PozToxVersPig]

Gentlemen, I scanned this long write up but did not read in detail.  Your both are obviously skilllec debaters. 

Is this site however the Wright forum for discussions on topics like this? I have seen a few instances of this pop-up and I don’t think it’s doing really any harm however, there are other communities where you both might enjoy a more lively debate or write them to this with other participants in different points of view.

 

Is this site however the Wright forum for discussions on topics like this? I have seen a few instances of this pop-up and I don’t think it’s doing really any harm however, there are other communities where you both might enjoy a more lively debate or write to this with other participants in different points of view.

 

I don’t come to breeding zone for stuff like this personally I come to talk about gay sex and pause loads and how many I took and where I’m gonna find the next one and I don’t know that we’re even adjacent to that with a post like this.

again, I don’t think any great harm is being caused, however in the interest of the spirit of debate, and you know increasing one’s point of view I’m suggesting that there might be other places where a conversation like this would be aided.

much love. 

[tallslenderguy]

1 hour ago, PozToxVersPig said:

Gentlemen, I scanned this long write up but did not read in detail.  Your both are obviously skilllec debaters. 

Is this site however the Wright forum for discussions on topics like this? I have seen a few instances of this pop-up and I don’t think it’s doing really any harm however, there are other communities where you both might enjoy a more lively debate or write them to this with other participants in different points of view.

 

Is this site however the Wright forum for discussions on topics like this? I have seen a few instances of this pop-up and I don’t think it’s doing really any harm however, there are other communities where you both might enjoy a more lively debate or write to this with other participants in different points of view.

 

I don’t come to breeding zone for stuff like this personally I come to talk about gay sex and pause loads and how many I took and where I’m gonna find the next one and I don’t know that we’re even adjacent to that with a post like this.

again, I don’t think any great harm is being caused, however in the interest of the spirit of debate, and you know increasing one’s point of view I’m suggesting that there might be other places where a conversation like this would be aided.

much love. 

On the other hand, there are guys on BZ who do want to discuss politics, so BZ has been kind enough to provide space for such discussion in this separate section.  Chances are, if you do not click on the specific section of "LGBT Politics," you will not encounter any posts discussing politics. 

No snark here, just looking to provide info for you. ❤️

[tobetrained]

7 hours ago, tallslenderguy said:

The challenges of being human, eh? Both rational and emotional, and they often do not align. 

I'm far too rational and non-emotional, as I'm regularly told. I write as a speak. But in a debate or just a discussion (like this), I never direct anger at the other person nor personalize the convo. Someone willing to communicate deserves just that, communication. And, I'm always happy to be corrected when wrong and never take offense to that being pointed out.

As far as Marxism, I wouldn't be able to do more than restate what I learned in school...while trying to remember that far back in doing so. You know, when we had pet dinosaurs, and the like. But Wolff describes himself as a Marxist economist.

What I dislike about Marxism, socialism, and the warping of all that thinking in what communism became, is the exclusion of competition. Why socialism fails is it has no motivator for the population. Democracy was developed by the ancient Greeks as an outcome of their hyper-competitive culture. Additionally, it's hostile to commerce (markets) which, both then and now, allows average people/the masses to move beyond government dependence and its (positive or negative) coercion.

[NWUSHorny]

14 hours ago, PozToxVersPig said:

Gentlemen, I scanned this long write up but did not read in detail.  Your both are obviously skilllec debaters. 

Is this site however the Wright forum for discussions on topics like this? I have seen a few instances of this pop-up and I don’t think it’s doing really any harm however, there are other communities where you both might enjoy a more lively debate or write them to this with other participants in different points of view.

 

Is this site however the Wright forum for discussions on topics like this? I have seen a few instances of this pop-up and I don’t think it’s doing really any harm however, there are other communities where you both might enjoy a more lively debate or write to this with other participants in different points of view.

 

I don’t come to breeding zone for stuff like this personally I come to talk about gay sex and pause loads and how many I took and where I’m gonna find the next one and I don’t know that we’re even adjacent to that with a post like this.

again, I don’t think any great harm is being caused, however in the interest of the spirit of debate, and you know increasing one’s point of view I’m suggesting that there might be other places where a conversation like this would be aided.

much love. 

I enjoy reading these forums, even though I generally refrain from participating here. I didn't read the political discussion here for a long time, and still for the most part keep my sex and politics separate. I will say however I have used points made here on the political forums I am active on.

[tallslenderguy]

14 hours ago, tobetrained said:

What I dislike about Marxism, socialism, and the warping of all that thinking in what communism became, is the exclusion of competition. Why socialism fails is it has no motivator for the population. Democracy was developed by the ancient Greeks as an outcome of their hyper-competitive culture. Additionally, it's hostile to commerce (markets) which, both then and now, allows average people/the masses to move beyond government dependence and its (positive or negative) coercion.

i too am concerned about the importance of competition as a factor of growth, creativity and innovation.  On the flip side, i think some things like pharmaceutical development could benefit from removing the 'middleman' profit taking element that often exists in a competitive dynamic.  

The current system of drug development by profit taking pharmaceutical companies is largely subsidized by our tax dollars. Why not take those same tax dollars and hire scientists directly to develop medications. We could incentivize competition by paying bonuses on things like finding cures vs med management of disease, to name just one area that pharma exploits for profit. Scientists can compete amongst themselves and incentives can be paid directly to those doing the research while eliminating the middle person who doubles cost in profit taking. 

i do not believe socialism should be universal, but is there a place for socialism with modifiers that encourages competition while eliminating non productive elements that simply profit off anothers efforts without producing anything of social value in return?

"Indicators suggest that the biopharmaceutical industry, which is largely enabled by government investments in basic research, is thriving. From 2000-2019, U.S. spending on pharmaceuticals increased from $253 to $345 billion....

The increase in pharmaceutical sales has also generated enormous profits for the pharmaceutical industry. In another study, we recently showed that from 2000 to 2018, 35 large pharmaceutical companies had cumulative revenue of $11.5 trillion and net income (earnings) of $1.9 trillion. Moreover, that study also showed that large pharmaceutical companies had median net income margins of 13.8%, significantly greater than those of other large corporations in the S&P 500 (7.7%) and similar to those of other research-driven companies."

[think before following links] https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/us-tax-dollars-funded-every-new-pharmaceutical-in-the-last-decade

[tobetrained]

1 hour ago, tallslenderguy said:

i do not believe socialism should be universal, but is there a place for socialism with modifiers that encourages competition while eliminating non productive elements that simply profit off anothers efforts without producing anything of social value in return?

Agree to this, conceptually, as well as the detail you mention for pharma. But then "we" (a.k.a. society) fight over which social values... to abort or not to abort, for instance.

Pharma, in detail, is a bit outta my comfort zone beyond what I shared in the other convo. The number you ref above, 13.8% vs 7.7% are generally in-line with that. but it's all perspective too. The difference with Pharma vs other industries is that the product lifecycle is riddled with failures, 80%-90% of tested drugs do not come to market (shared previously), and the very short time window before generic versions become available. Those two issues change relationships of acceptable profitability greatly.

For instance, think what Google would have been -- or, really, Yahoo before it -- if Internet search had to be made "free" (to advertisers) or generic after something like 10 years. How much more would Google (etc) have had to charged advertisers -- or even users -- for their services in those first few years? Would they even have existed in any serious way?

But you touch on something -- the scientists in the development chain -- and getting financially rewarded for their services. Absolutely agree. But that isn't just from industry. It's also from the Universities...who take the lion's share of revenue from any patented work. The last I read -- most institutions take like 75%+, but do not quote me on that number. Our higher education system is so messed up, re financing. What the scientists don't get should go back to the pot for future funding to lower taxpayer burden for new research (federal tax revenue allocation to research grants) and not to these failing institutions.

I made other similar points on these topics in the "Independent" thread. No reason to repeat!