Poz1956

Let's face it, play safe guys who are beating off to BB porn, are programming themselves to eventually give in and bareback. It's a monkey see, monkey do world. And BB is constantly being shoved down the throat of all the young guys. With pretty much any free porn online these days, BB vids are the top choice. Raw also has a caché, and a rebel connotation. Even the names we call it sound more fun, or like a nastier harder fuck. Honestly I prefer the "better production value, clear sound, meticulous lighting, interesting sets, handsome men, and thin thread of a story line," condom porn, to the cheap hotel room fucks of "professional" BB porn. Maybe I just haven't seen the right vids. Up to this point BB porn has always given me a quinsy feeling in my stomach, with immediate thoughts of HIV transmission, and remorse because I didn't think I had that option. But hell, now I've been corrupted and even bought Poz on Poz BB porn. (It was cheap & I was curious) Nice piece of kink, and yea it gives me wood, but I still think the condom stuff creates hotter fantasies. I understand condom fatigue for guys who have been using them for ten plus years. But for a teen, just coming out, it's not condom fatigue. In a lot of cases, they've never even had any safe sex education. Or received such a sad, pathetic, mechanical message, that it sucks all the heat out of the sex. Bare is forbidden fruit. It's "You're not the boss of me -- I can do anything I want!" Every where he turns, the message is "bare is better." There really isn't even room for a discussion of safe sex any more. When I see a Bi guy virgin to butt sex trolling for his first fuck, and stipulating that it must be BB, I wonder "How the hell is his ass going to know the difference?" He hasn't had anything up there, so the feeling is going to be intense regardless of which way it goes in. What made him want his cherry broken by bare cock? It truly saddens me when I see a 26 year old say he's been Poz for two or three years. On here we see lots the young guys who look forward to becoming Poz, because it will "set them free." And the bug chasers just scare the shit out of me. Being Poz is not glamorous. There is a huge wave of Poz guys coming. It will be bigger than the peak of the first wave in the mid 90's. The CDC's prediction for 22 year old gay guys of today, is that half of them will be Poz by the time they are 50. Big Pharma is going to make a fortune. Our health care systems aren't prepared for it. When the long term effects of ARVs start to kick in, it's going to be a mess. Our HIV service organizations are being starved of money. The last "new and hot" pro condom poster produced by my locale ASO is over ten years old. Their donors expect and demand condom only safer sex messaging. "Condoms, condoms, condoms" is an old message that everyone immediately dismisses, or at least tunes out these days. Maybe if they started screaming "Testing, Testing, Testing" with a small side order of condoms, it would be something different, and might actually be heard. Most of the ASOs are not comfortable even discussing PrEP, or actively fight against it. But even if the young guys heard the "testing" message, bureaucracy stands in the way of them actually getting tested. You can't get home testing kits here because the government thinks that without pre & post test counselling they will do more harm than good. The STI clinic has no evening hours. Their bathhouse testing is from 5:00 to 6:30 PM on Fridays. How many guys are cruising the bathhouse at those hours? And any suggestion of taking the testing to the gay guys, at bars or dances or pride events gets rejected because they might have had a drink. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of guys need a drink to screw up the guts to get tested. And while the world is flocking to Treatment as Prevention, only one province in Canada has adopted it. If PrEP were cheep and widely available, I'd be a lot more comfortable with Neg guys jumping on the bareback bandwagon. But it is neither. Maybe things will change when PrEP is a slow release three month injectable, but I doubt it. I'm willing to bet that shot will be priced equivalent or higher than three months of Turvada. It's one thing if guys have made a careful, considered decision to BB, where they've weighed the risks, and the benefits. But it's something different when they know squat about HIV, are under peer pressure, and having bareback shoved down their throat everywhere they look. (or should that read "shoved up their ass") For many I have to ask, is it a conscious choice, or is it something that has been branded, and marketed to them like overly caffeinated energy drinks? I envy the guys who at least have the option of staying Neg. I didn't. Back in 82 a one night roll in the hay with a guy who trolled the nasty & fun places in New York, set my destiny in motion. The words Safe and Sex had never been used in the same sentence back then. I was perfectly happy with playing safe, until I started to get pressured into BB. Neg guys - you know - the kind that used to scream at the mere mention of my status, and run from the room like scared little school girls. Suddenly I hear them saying they're perfectly comfortable topping me raw. "Awe, come on hun, please, it's so much more sensual." What kind of mind fuck is that? But of course I don't get to feel that same sensuality with my dick, because those same guys wouldn't feel safe. And personally I don't want to put them at risk with my Pozzie spunk. Hell, my "twice as likely to experience erectile dysfunction", "five times more likely to have low testosterone for my age," Pozzie cock doesn't even let me top all that much any more. And whooptie fucking dooo -- my ARVs just happen to make ED drugs less effective. (Hey Bug Chasers - think about that shit!! HIV's early aging is crappy) But it's in my brain, that the stronger sensation just might make my tool work better for a while longer. How do I reconcile 28 years of "you can NEVER do that" brainwashing (that I still receive on every visit to the HIV clinic), with the modern "undetectable is the new safe sex" coming from other sources? Well the natural answer would seem to be go fuck other Pozzies. What, you think just because they're Poz they stopped being the ageist, youth obsessed, perfect body seeking, size queen, fur loving, picky bitches that other fags are? Nobody wants an average looking, average hung 57 year old guy. All the other 50 somethings want a twink, or jock, or muscled dude. They want well hung, or uncut, or (___ Fill in Desired Feature Here ___) that I don't have. And there just aren't that many diagnosed Pozzies here. (I can guarantee there are a lot of undiagnosed "Clean U B 2" "D&D Free" ones running around.) The original question was "How did we get here?" I don't know where I am right now. I can't quite see where "here" is, and Google Maps isn't helping me. I'm struggling with the decision of where, when, and with whom, and maybe even IF I'm going to bareback. I'm here to read, and learn, and try to sort all that out in my head. I think the answer is yes, under some cirCUMstances, but don't quite know what those are yet. I've given barebacking more thought and time than several years worth of watching porn, and nightly J/O fantasies, combined. It's comforting to find a place where I can be Poz and not shit on because of it. Cathartic to share experiences and knowledge. And neat to connect with others who share these same little passengers that changed our lives forever.

With text only communication, it's often hard to read the tone the words were meant to convey. I read skepticism in your message. It could just be a reflex for me. I've spent 28 years of having immediate assumptions made as to my moral character as soon as I disclose my status. People often infer that all Pozzies are sociopaths, trying to infect as many people as possible, and that everything they say is a lie.To be more specific you should look for, a Poz guy, on antiretrovirals, with an undetectable viral load, who's been undetectable for more than six months. Just remember to ask your questions gently and politely, because you ARE talking about his most personal private piece of medial information. Maybe phrase it "Have you been on the drugs a few years?" in a tone of voice that expresses curiosity, not a demand. The average Pozzie is undetectable within the first three months of starting the ARVs. But yes, we Pozzies on here, especially us old guard ones, have a huge wealth of knowledge. But you don't have to take just our word on it. We can point you to well respected sources to back up what we say. Here's one source. Dr. Julio Montaner, Director of the BC Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS. He developed the concept of the multi-drug cocktails we Pozzies take. He also pioneered the Treatment as Prevention (TasP) model, that is being adopted around the world. He has said: 'I am very comfortable that properly used, HAART is at least as protective as when using condoms, if not better." (HAART = Highly Active Anti-Retroviral Therapy) Need an additional source? Look up the preliminary report from the Partner study. I know none of the below applies to you cum dump bottoms, and the tops that want to use them. Elsewhere I've read your rules of the game. Don't bother commenting on it. It's written for the guy who started this thread. Of course condoms are a form of risk reduction. They have prevented a lot of people catching HIV over the years. Used constantly and correctly they offer excellent (but not perfect) protection for HIV and some other STIs. About 98%.The problem comes with your "heat of the moment" comment. Overall, gay guys are using rubbers about 50% of the time. There must be a hell of a lot of heat, and a fuck of a lot of moments out there. The CDC's calculation is that over your lifetime "usually" using a condom prevents catching an STI (not specifically HIV) only slightly more than never using a condom (4%). Taking into account the 50% use, improper use, breakage etc, the CDC rated condoms 73% effective at preventing HIV. As others have said this is not a good choice of a place to ask "how do I make using condoms sexier?" That being said, here's a few thoughts. Order in some Crown 004 condoms. They are considered to feel the closest thing to bare of any rubber on the market. They're pricey at $1.25 to $1.60 per condom, depending on quantity ordered. Shop around online, some places are a lot less expensive than others. If that's too rich for you, get the previous winner, Beyond Seven. They come in at about the standard $0.25 per rubber. Make the condom part of the play, not an interruption to the action. Open the package before the start of the scene -- some condom wrappers are almost impossible to open once you get lube on your hands. You put the rubber on the top. Talk all filthy and hot while you do it. "Let me look at that hot cock. I can't wait to get this on you, so you can plow it into me! It's going to feel so good." You get the picture? Be the most sensual fuck you can. Touch, kiss, caress, and pinch anyplace that turns your top on. Be vocal and hot. Grunt, groan & tell him how much you enjoy him fucking you. Throw in lots of filth. If you can feel him cum in the condom, make sure you squeal about that, like the filthy pig that you are. Basically, focus all the attention on you, and him, and the connection between you. Make it all about the heat of the moment, so nobody even thinks about the piece of latex between you. PM me if you want more.

I think there is a bigger answer. At diagnosis we come face to face with our own mortality. We all know we will eventually die, but it's far off, cloudy and grey. We get the news, and BAM, it appears much more in focus, and way closer, and more tangible than at any previous time in our lives. Along with the beating ourselves up, we scrutinize every risk we took that led to our diagnosis. As we take stock of our lives so far, we also see the other bad habits we've developed along the way. There is a hyper focus on every scratch, cut, bruise, bump, and every other feature of our bodies we've never paid attention to before. There's a lot more mirror time. You notice that the average North American two pound per year weight gain has kind of added up. You'll see the black circles from chronically getting to little sleep. That huff and puff as you climb a flight of stairs catches your attention too. We try not to be the average developed word guy, who is overweight, has high cholesterol, eats too much fast food, doesn't get enough sleep, and rarely gets any exercise. We pay more attention to our body, and listen to its complaints. Somewhere in this grieving process of accepting our diagnosis (maybe it's the bargaining stage, or full self actualization) we say "I'm not going to let this thing beat me. In fact, I'm going to beat it!" We vow to make changes in our lives. We try and live each day to the fullest. We work to get happier with that guy in the mirror. We know that we have to do stuff to get our of the waves of depression to occasionally flood us like an tsunami. That daily pill is a moment where we stop for a few seconds and consider our health. It is a reminder to try and live a better lifestyle. If you weren't taking vitamins, and since the doctor recommended them, you start. Then there's the doctors visits - probably more frequent than any time previously in your life. And the round of questions at the beginning of the appointment. They again create more body awareness. While you don't remember hearing them, with all the talk of viral loads, and CD4s and all the other tests, the doctor told you to eat a better diet, and get more exercise, if nothing else to release the stress. For some, who have been able to share their new status with friends or family, there's an added outside source concerned for your health and welfare. You probably get tossed an article on some way to improve your immune system. In other words, there's a pile of reasons. And heck, whichever ones are the cause, they are good for us. We have enough things our of our control, that just might kill us, so we try and take control of the ones we can.

Because it was rough enough to draw blood (not enough lube?), you don't know how to contact the guy, and you're scared maybe it's worth considering going to an emergency ward, and discussing PEP. I think you're still in the 72 hour time limit since the exposure. The drugs may upset you tummy just as much as it already is, but they might ease your mind.

One more thing to throw into the mix. Are you cut, or uncut? The actual risk is difficult to calculate. It's not something you can ethically study. The stats out there are an estimate - an educated guess. Of course it can happen on your fist exposure, or never happen. Elsewhere I've given two examples. An uncut top who got it in one out of one bareback fucks with a guy outside of his relationship, and a cut top who got it in one out of two bareback fucks in his entire life. Both guys I've chatted with since December. The estimates are based on running into a high viral load Pozzie. The above two example were most likely a guy who didn't know he was Poz, in or closely after the Window Period, and had a viral load in the millions. An undetectable Pozzie one is much less risk. Look up the report from the Partner study. From metadata studies the estimates say a cut top has a 1 in 909 chance per exposure. An uncut top has a 1 in 161 per exposure. A bottom has a 1 in 71 chance per exposure. A metadata study summarizes data from all other studies found in the medical literature. The Neg top, Poz bottom arrangement is referred to as "Strategic Positioning" or "Sero-Positioning." Go google those for backup info.

To the best of my knowledge, all of the provinces and territories are covering 100% of the ARV costs. I believe at one time BC did charge people of means for one out of the three drugs, but that's long gone. The world has recognized and is rapidly adopting TasP. Even the mighty USA, with it's tendency to move slow, kicking and screaming about anything sexual, has embraced TasP. Sadly BC is the only province to take this harm reduction approach. They offer an HIV test to any patient entering hospital, or any emergency ward in the province. They're finding about 1 per 100,000 that are not known to have any of the common risk factors. It makes sense - they embrace harm reduction. They also have the only safe injection site in Canada. Neither the federal health minister, nor any of the other provincial health ministers will have a five minute meeting with Dr. Julio Montaner, Director of the BC Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS. He pioneered TasP and the world has beat a path to his door. Incidentally, he also developed the concept of the multi-drug cocktails. I guess that's sort of like all those great Canadian entertainers who have to go to our southern neighbour to make it big. Maybe if he nominate for a Nobel Prize in medicine someone will blink. Heck I live in a 1.25 million plus city, and we can't even get the STI clinic to be open one evening a week. Not even once a month. It's estimated the with medical follow-up, tests, and drugs, it costs a provinces 1/2 million to treat a Pozzie over his life. How many people can you test for that much money? If you locate and treat a person, and prevent his/her transmission to one or two others, (and the ones they would have infected . . .) the savings multiply exponentially. Even progressive BC is lukewarm on PrEP. Montaner feels that wider deployment of TasP is a better use of resources. I know there aren't many gay guys up here who are even aware of PEP or PrEP. Any time I mention either of them the response is a blank stare and ??? C'est la vie!

I know, but the thread was still near the top and being heavily read. Bringing it up to date with the latest research seemed appropriate. And I'm just so excited about the report from the Partner study, I can't stop talking about it, to anyone who'll listen. Guys who are going to lie about their status, are already doing it, and will continue to do it. Though I agree Partner may encourage more to do so. But I suppose if they are on their meds, and getting regular follow-up, it is the least harmful of the situations you presented. Not morally correct, but not really endangering the Neg guys either. I know that thought will make many a Neg go nuclear, screaming STEALTH, and "We have a Right to Know!" I've struggled with the morality of "Don't ask - Don't tell," any time I've done it. And that's only been while playing safely. I've got a post over in Poptronic's "What's It Like to Be Poz" | "When does life become normal" thread. In it I give a rough outline of the mental tug-a-war each and every hook-up presents. I haven't played that game in a BB situation yet. Well - I guess I have to fes up to the once in 1992, for a couple of minutes. I didn't cum, and I'm not a huge leaker and, and, and, and! They're all BS self justifications. Considering it was pre-coctail . . . -- I still regret that one. But it did change my behaviour, and I've always had condoms in every coat since that day. Partner does ease my guilt over any BJs I've received, and safe sex DA-DTs I've done in the past, knowing I truly didn't put the guys at even the tiniest amount of any risk. The situation doesn't really change for the guys who can't stay on their meds, because of complications life throws at them. They're already either saying their Neg, or that they're undetectable. I suspect more the former. Those same "life situations" probably make them more in need of the close human contact, and more easily wounded by the stigma. The guys who aren't actively getting medical follow-up, and monitoring their viral load are pretty much the same as the above group. Mix two parts denial, and one part Life leading them to where they are today. They're already saying what they're going to say, and Partner won't change it. I'm of two minds about this study. I want to scream it at the top of my lungs. I want to nail the perverted purveyors of stigma with it, until they've got stigmata. (Some of you will have to look that word up to get the pun.) This is BIG GUN ammunition to shoot back with. Laser guided artillery shells, and military grade GPS smart bombs! By the same token I want to keep quiet until the final results come out. When they get the confidence level up, and the theoretical risk numbers down, it will be HUGE. But what if there are a few transmissions? I expect we'll be in 40,000 gay BB fucks by then. If we get 11, that's about equivalent to a bottom on PrEP. From what the researches said, I suspect it will be much fewer. (if only my crystal ball would pick lottery numbers that way.) Then there's the issue of the guys who played BB with others, and became Poz. They're keeping that number under wraps until the end. Considering that almost half of the 3-way/open/cheater guys got STIs and brought it home, I think it's a safe bet that a good chunk of the 'Neg' ones now share their partner's daily trip to the medicine cabinet. The Pozaphobes will seize on that number - minus the facts - and swear it HAD to have come from the original Poz partner. And back to personal struggle. There's a Neg guy who has been pushing to top me. Last time he was in town he almost weakened my resolve to the point of giving in. In truth, if his net connection hadn't gone down before I got the hotel room number, he would have pumped at least one load into me. Twenty-eight years of "You can never do that" lectures and habits die hard. Before Partner came out, I went back and forth on that one several times a day. Knowing what I know now, can I deny that hot motherfucker his conquest? (Or should that be ME fucker?) I already know the answer, but it still has me quaking in my boots, and my stomach tied in a knot tight enough that I want to puke. Or is that anticipation, and almost virginal stage fright? I want to F U C K him Hard too! But I don't think I can break That mental barrier, so they'll still be a latex barrier between us. Just wish I had some Crown 004's to plow him with.

Perhaps my initial statement was poorly worded. Let me rephrase. There is more to life than being a cumdump piggy whore. HIV has tendrils that creep into other aspects of your life. There are unintended consequences to HIV that a young Bug Chaser may not have considered. Major purchase often require that you buy disability insurance **1. Disability insurance usually has a few health questions. Policies with health questions usually specifically mention HIV as one their preexisting conditions. For example: Life Investors Insurance Company of America Term Life and Disability Insurance Application -- Question 1. Sometimes it may not be in the questions, but is listed in the consent to release information. For example: Assurity Live Insurance Company: Ohio Application for Mortguage Disability Income Insurance - Page 6. It may also be on the disability insurance Claim Form, in the consent to release information. For example from my bank: Mortgage Disability Insurance (AIMP) Claim Creditor Insurance. Policies that include a provision for HIV, usually limit it to occupational exposure. Regardless of a specific example, I think we can all agree that an HIV diagnosis creates complications for "normal" things like life insurance, travel insurance, or employer required medical exams. Many states have enacted specific laws that criminalize sex while Poz. Some are vague enough that any body fluid is considered a contagion. There are people in jail for zero risk activities like mutual masturbation, or incarcerated for something as stupid as spitting. The day after he shoots his load, an online hookup may regret his "heat of the moment" decision, and decide he want's PEP. A well meaning nurse or doctor may call the police, resulting in charges. It has happened, and the young Pozzie involved felt his life was ruined, and eventually hung himself in jail. Former fuck buds, or jilted lovers may decide to start legal proceedings, claiming you never informed them. Since the discussion happened verbally, a Poz guy has no proof. The Pozzie is considered guilty, until proven innocent. Many Neggies do not react well when you advise them of your status. Some are just rude and insulting, while others get hysterical and say "You're trying to murder me!" Lets not forget all the online profiles with "Clean U B 2" and "D & D Free." They wear you down over time. My worst experience with disclosing my status, was a pup I chatted filthy with for several months. He asked - I revealed - He freaked. Figuring there was no chance, I switched to education mode. After a good discussion on safe sex, he said he wanted to meet, for meat. I went, but it was a set-up for a bashing. (I was aware enough, that I saw it from afar and avoided it.) He was afraid of a little cum in a condom, with the load not even shot while inside him, but he and a bud were perfectly willing to beat my head in with a tire iron. Which would have put him at more risk? I can at least understand the mind set of a bashing when status was disclosed AFTER sex. But Before Sex? Some Neggies are insane. There are countries that do not allow people with HIV to visit them. They require a visa, and it's approval is dependant on a doctor's examination, blood tests, and medical form. Some countries with an HIV embargo don't require a visa. But say you have a cut that requires stitches, and go to the hospital. Your status will be reported to the authorities, and upon completion of your treatment, you will be immediately deported. My diagnosis happened long ago, when death was considered a certainty. As a result, I did not follow some carer paths, set inspirational life goals, and did not plan well for retirement. Being Poz can defiantly change your outlook on life. Poz guys are twice as likely to experience erectile difficulties, and are five times more likely to have low testosterone for their age. A couple of examples of the "early aging" some Poz guys are experiencing. Just a few of "these things you had no idea about." The list is endless. Being Poz isn't romantic. It DOESN'T set you free. It's a ball and chain that shackles you for the rest of your life. **1 From Wikipedia: "In the United States, subject to the Homeowners Protection Act of 1998,[5] a borrower who provides less than 20% down payment up front may be required to pay for private mortgage insurance until the outstanding mortgage is less than 80% of the value of the property" **1 - Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (provides protection should the financial institution goes bankrupt): "Mortgage loan insurance is typically required by lenders when homebuyers make a down payment of less than 20% of the purchase price. Mortgage loan insurance helps protect lenders against mortgage default, and enables consumers to purchase homes with a minimum down payment of 5% — with interest rates comparable to those with a 20% down payment." **1 -- CIBC (Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce) - Mortgage Disability Insurance - Key Benefits: "You'll receive simple and fast approval when the mortgage amount plus the outstanding principal balance of all your other disability insured CIBC brand mortgages is less than or equal to $500,000 and you answer "No" to the Health Questions on the insurance application and your mortgage is approved." Term Life Insurance - From Wikipedia: Because term life insurance is a pure death benefit, its primary use is to provide coverage of financial responsibilities for the insured or his or her beneficiaries. Such responsibilities may include, but are not limited to, consumer debt, dependent care, university education for dependents, funeral costs, and mortgages. Term life insurance may be chosen in favor of "Permanent" or "Whole Life" insurance because Term insurance is usually much less expensive, even if the applicant is an everyday smoker. For example, an individual might choose to obtain a policy whose term expires near his or her retirement age based on the premise that, by the time the individual retires, he would have amassed sufficient funds in retirement savings to provide financial security for the claims. In a guaranteed level premium Term Life insurance, the premium is guaranteed to be the same for a given period of years. The most common terms are 10, 15, 20, and 30 years.

I once had one shoot hard enough in there that some went up into my sinuses. It did not feel good up there. How it got there might have involved the position too, but I don't remember.

Reading this again, I think i misinterpreted your statement to be talking about the Partner study. (It's such big news that the study is at the front of my mind.)I see now that you were talking about organ transplants. Sorry! (How Canadian of me to apologist) Back in November President Obama signed the HOPE act into law. The HIV Organ Policy Equity (HOPE) Act lifts the ban on research into organ transplants between HIV-positive patients. It sets out guidelines and standards for how the research is to be conducted, and it'll be up to the US Secretary of Health to determine if its outcome gives reason to allow transplant operations to go ahead. As for blood for transfusions, that does not seem very likely. Considering past incidents back at the beginning of the epidemic, when hemophiliacs and people who received transfusions became Poz, I doubt any blood collection agency would touch that with a ten foot pole. They would need to have a complete separate system, and separate equipment. And even then a pint of Poz could accidentally end up in the same fridge as Neg. It took a long time for those agencies to regain the trust of the public. They wouldn't take the risk. Transplant organs are in short supply. There is some resistance to "wasting" a Neggies organs on a Poz guy, when it could help a Neg person. Yet Pozzies who would like to donate organs, are forbidden from doing so. Blood for transfusions is not in short supply. Pozzies can take Neg blood with no issue. It just wouldn't make any sense to duplicate a system, and risk the possibility of human error. Someone could easily, accidentally put the wrong bag in the wrong tray.

From all of the medical literature around HIV, there is one, count it one person who is reported to have caught it from his undetectable partner. Even that report notes that there isn't a confirmed neg test on file (just his word). The length of time between the supposed transmission event, and the Poz test was so long, that it was not possible to determine if the virus had come from the undetectable partner via genotyping. Clearly your own Google fu was a little lacking on this one.The only way you can ethically study this sort of thing, is long term follow-up of serodiscordant couples We sometimes get cutesy and call them Magnetic couples, because it's a relationship where one person is Poz and the other is Neg. Also called serodivergent. The Partner study includes both gay and straight couples. Before this study there was very little research of HIV in gay relationships, and none with enough data to draw statistically significant conclusions. All of the Pozzies in the Partner study have an undetectable viral load. On Monday, March 6, 2014 the preliminary results from the Partner study were presented at CROI 2014. (Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections) NONE of the HIV Negative partners contracted HIV from their Poz partner, in the first two years of the study. With an estimated 14,400 condomless sex acts in the gay couples and 28,000 from the straight ones, ZERO Negative partners caught HIV from their Positive spouse. In a cumulative 894 Years of follow-up with these couples there was not a single transmission from the Poz mate. Based on the number and type of sex acts, if the Pozzies had not been under treatment, they would have expected about 86 of the gay neg guys to seroconvert. This is truly a game changer. It moves TasP (Treatment as Protection) from a Public health initiative that reduces transmissions community wide, down to a much more personal level. They sold early treatment to Pozzies, by saying it reduced our chance of transmitting HIV to the guys we played with. Now they have proof that TasP does exactly that. I think the Partner study rules out pretty much all of your "yea, BUT" situations. I'm sure there were big dicks and little one, colds and flus, tender and rough sex, huge shooters and dribblers, good lube and spit'n'push. There were a significant number of switch hitters, so both positions covered too. And still none of the Neg partners caught HIV from their Poz spouse.About a third of the gay couples played with other guys, and did it bareback with them too. About half of the couples who had added some spice to their relationship, or had a dish on the side, got STIs. Clearly the STIs didn't significantly affect the viral loads, or increase the likelihood of the Pozzie to transmit. Some of the Neg guys did turn Poz, but gene sequencing showed their virus COULD NOT have come their Poz spouse. They don't have quite enough data to feel confident about the Poz top, Neg cum dump scenario. Statistical calculations, using a 95% confidence level, produce theoretical "worst case" risk levels. They need 450 more European gay serodivengent couples, with follow-up until 2017 to understand IF there is any risk. They will probably never be able to prove zero risk. At a press conference after the presentation the head researcher said,they expect the chance of infection to be close to zero, if not exactly zero. Backup data will come from the Australian "Opposites Attract" study. That study will also look at seminal viral load in some of the Poz partners. The final results from both studies will be published in 2017. So drop all this energy you're wasting worrying about the undetectable Pozzie. Put where it belongs On all the people who you don't ask about their status & the guys who say they are Neg!

I guess you didn't tell that to the ID doc when you were initially diagnosed. Dude, if you had, they would have studied, poked, prodded, and scanned every inch of your body. There would be research papers written about you, and presentations made at major HIV conferences. It probably would have been a lead story in the new.It would have valledated all those cautions about oral sex on medical websites. But if catching it through a BJ is what you believe, then so be it.

ff-whole: You're out taking a lot of random loads, and you haven't been tested since last April. Do yourself, and the broader community that you want to seed you, and up the frequency to every 3 months. If/when you get a Poz result don't immediately go out, and hit the tubs. That's stealthing, and is probably a criminal offence. If Pozzed, see a doctor and get on the ARVs (antiretrovirals) as soon as possible. Wait until your Viral Load is undetectable. Ideally you're supposed to be undetectable for 6 months, but you probably wouldn't be able to hold back for that long. After you're undetectable then you can go to the tubs and take every man's load that gets offered to you. mspchaser: Annual testing? WTF? You're seeking Poz guys and only testing annually. Three Months! Both of you: Have some consideration for your fellow man. Most people out there don't have your chaser's mentality. Those long waits between testing mean that you'll be out there, when you are at your most infectious, spreading the virus amongst your communities. You are endangering the tops, whose seed you so desperately want -- especially the uncut ones. I'll just call it inconsiderate, though I want to use much stronger language. Being Poz does not set you free. It shackles you, and beats you down the rest of your life. I can pretty much guarantee that at some point in the future you will you wish you hadn't had that intimate encounter with the virus. Accepting the fact that based on your lifestyle, you have a high chance of becoming Poz is one thing. Eagerly looking forward to it is something else. Test frequently, When you turn Poz get on the meds. Do it to protect your community.

I just read this whole thread from start to finish today. I don't think the you guys should be too proud of yourselves. Here's how I see what happened. A naive guy, cute young and handsome, came in here, unsure if he wanted to BB or not. He was clearly afraid of HIV and other STI's. While he had been BB'd before by manipulative twit of a boyfriend, he was not ready to make the leap with other guys. But he was craving that sensation. Yea, this is a bareback site, so a certain amount of "It's hot - yes - go do it" should be expected. I'm not sure he would have gotten the same level of that, if were in his 50's, well past his prime, and the opposite of cute. I've seen other threads where people have had a reasoned, thoughtful discussion about a guy's wants, needs, and fears about BBing. He certainly didn't get much of that here. Other than the suggestion of PrEP (he didn't even know what it was), it was "go do it & get bugged up." There are guys on here that move between safe and raw, depending on the man, their mood, and the moment. You convinced him that it was not possible for him to ever have fun again, while playing safely. (Again - I know - BB centric site - you consider that your job here.) You told him to go try BB as a top, so he'd know how good it feels. A reasonable thought. He picked a guy off some other site/method and was following that advice. As a result, he got drugged, date raped, and gang banged. The fact that he let that happen, didn't have his eyes open and antenna up, just goes to prove his naivete. He has a full face pic here, and probably uses one, maybe even the same one, on other sites. I can't escape the feeling that the date rapest might well have been one of the commentators in this thread, another member who just followed it, or an outside guest reading it. Of course it could have gone down exactly as described, and was just a bad date. He reports back after the rape, and that's what it was, he was violated an raped. Yes there was a plan for fucking that night, but what happened wasn't consensual. Did he get sympathy? Did he get any advice like talk to the cops, or go see a rape counsellor? Did anybody suggest PEP? There couldn't be a more perfect example of when it was appropriate. Did anybody even ask if he was OK? "U got wot u deserved m8" and "Why don't you go for a four way" was the compassion he received. Rape can be a great fantasy. It's fun to play out. But real RAPE is a crime. The kid needed support! The guy is terrified of all the STI's. You see he's hooking up with someone who's profile has coded language for "I'm Poz." Nobody sends the OP a discrete PM with that info, or at least the suggestion to read the profile. And afterwards your anxiously the new that he'd been Pozzed. It turns out he was lied to, and Stealthed. And adz is proud of it. Well maybe not technically stealthed, because adz is one of those classic guys under 25 never been tested, but has been taking dick for years. I hope he's not one of the 60% of <25'rs that are Poz, and don't know they are Poz. Dale didn't join a bug chaser thread. He joined the Making The Decision To Bareback forum. His actions clearly showed he didn't have the life experience, maturity and judgment to be making this decision yet. To the very few guys who gave Dale good advice - Great Job. Keep doing it. For others, at least consider what happened here, when other newbies ask "Am I ready to Bareback." Chasers, and gift givers, you have your own separate section. Goading an immature newby into your fetish just isn't appropriate. At least let them decide if a BB lifestyle is right for them, before you start pushing your stuff. This was not a proud moment for Breedingzone.

You do where I live

I remember a few years ago reading an article called "Mineshaft Memories." I was struck with a huge wave of remorse. After I came out, and especially after I learned I was turned on by leather, I had wanted to go visit some of the nasty places in NY. The Mineshaft was high on my list. I jacked off many a night thinking of what it would be like to be in the middle of that sexually charged atmosphere. The men, the moustaches, the sweat, the dicks, the cum, all those thoughts sent shivers through me, and explosive cum across my chest. In truth, the Mineshaft probably would have chewed me up, and spit me out. Whatever they would have done, spit, or swallow me hole, I know it would have been the experience of a lifetime. But alas money was tight, I knew no one there, and I feared large US cities. My image of them was Detroit as the percapita murder capital of the world, as viewed from a mile away in Windsor, Ontario. I'd bet I still have that magazine in a barracks box in the basement. Might be time for a stroll down memory lane, while flipping through antique porn.

Wouldn't a more appropriate hellish punishment be for him to be chained on all fours, and with all holes available, and forced to take the dick of Satin, his minions, and all the born again dickwads who will be joining him there? At least for a little while. Too long, and he might start enjoying being a fuck hole, cum dump!

There's a good chunk of proof from many different surveys.The one I have handy is the Canadian 2011-2012 Male Call survey, in which 45 minute telephone interviews were conducted with MSM. In it, 25.2% of participants had never been tested. Of those who had at least been tested some time in their life, 47.8% had not been tested in over a year. The reasons the Never Tested guys gave were: 83.8% - I think I am Negative 38.5% - It could affect my relationships 34.2% - I have never thought about it 22.2% - I could not deal with knowing I was Positive 18.0% - I am afraid of my name being reported 17.1% - I do not want to know Those last two groups are fear of legal ramifications come in. So almost a fifth who have never been tested probably never will get tested. Though the 38% afraid of it affecting their relationships is pretty interesting. They're taking the "Plausible Deniability" route - If I don't know, I don't have to tell. But Neggies attitudes towards Poz guys is where it gets interesting. 23.3% DON'T think Poz guys have the RIGHT to be sexually active 4.1% think Pozzies should be quarantined from others for the protection of public health. Asked when is the best time for a Poz guy to disclose his status to a new sex partner. This isn't even in the context of BB: 56.2% - When they first meet (It makes sense because 49% agreed with he statement "I would not have sex with a man who is HIV-Positive even if I am very attracted to him. They want to know right away so they can run for the door shrieking like little girls, and flapping their wrists like little butterflies. Yea - even the butch ones do that.) 25.9% - Want to know his status before any non-penetrative sex (like mutual masturbation or frottage) So lets see - 82% of Neggies feel they must know a Pozzie's status before any activity that has zero risk. Another 11.9% feel they need to know before oral sex With A Condom! Those match up pretty well with a Pozzie's greatest fears: 82.5% - Being discriminated and stigmatized because of HIV 67.7% - Being rejected because I am Positive 51.6% - Being prosecuted for not disclosing that I am HIV Positive The greatest divide between Pozzies and Neggies is around criminalization of Poz guys for just being sexual 60% think there should be a specific law Requiring a Pozzie to disclose his status. 65.2% think not disclosing his status should be a criminal offence 30.3% think that criminal prosecution is an effective way to stop people from transmitting HIV But that's kind of at odds with their opinion of what criminalization does: 62.1% agreed that criminal prosecution increases stigma and discrimination of Pozzies 47.5% agree that criminal prosecution deters or stops people who think they might be Poz from getting tested. 17.7% agree that it is better to not know your status in the current legal context. That last one should be enough proof enough for Wood. Only 17% think that lack of disclosure before barebacking should Not be a criminal offence 41.9% agree that not disclosing before BB should Always be a crime The remaining 40.9% said that it was a crime under some circumstances That last group got further queried. 30.2% of them think nondisclosure should be a crime even when a condom is used. (I wonder what BB non-disclosure situation is acceptable to them if they still think not reviling status and using a condom is a crime?) 42.5% agreed that not advising his status before receiving a blow job makes the Pozzie a criminal (Considered an extremely low, and even theoretical risk - but it should still be a crime) 96.7% think that a stealther intentionally trying to spread HIV should be charged with a crime There have been lots of cases where a guy HAS told a partner his status, but after the relationship or fuck is over, the bitter Neg guy chooses to press charges, saying he didn't know. The Pozzie is guilty until proven innocent. The burden of proof that he advised his partner (casual, FB or spouse) is on the Pozzie. Most of those conversations happen verbally - how do you prove that? If I disclose over the net, I try to save a copy of the chat log. I've seen suggestion to video the other guy agreeing to sex with a Pozzie (with his consent, and him stating his full name into the camera), or having him sign a document acknowledging that you advised him of your Poz status. While a partner, or FB might do either of those, I doubt a casual hook-up will

Maybe we members of the LGBT should leave it alone. But the parents and friends of veterans who's funerals he protested -- well that might be fitting!

I have to correct myself again. The estimated number of sex acts for the straight Neg males and Ned females was the same. I neglected to add them together. The straights fooled around an estimated total of 28,000 times. But there were 1.7 times as many straight couples in the study. So the total estimated number of sex with no transmissions was 44,400. That's one really big bucked of Jiz. Makes Treasure Island's "The 1,000 Load Fuck" look tame by comparison. Even with that correction, the gay guys played more times per couple than the straight ones.

HIV isn't in the sperm cells, It's in the liquid part of the semen. That's why they can do sperm washing so a Poz daddy to be can have a kid based on his own DNA, without endangering the mother. I don't know if they do that much any more, or if the just use PrEP. Most Semen is produced elsewhere, not in the balls. Only about 5% is produced in the Testes. Most of the viral particles are free floating in the seminal fluids. Some CD4 cells are also shed into the semen. With an uncontrolled viral load a chunk of them are going to be in the process of producing viruses. There was a study that said HIV will bind to sperm. That may allow it to be carried further into the system. But now researchers have found that peptides clustered together into long fibres may be more important for HIV transmission than seminal viral load. They physically capture the virus and help it interact with the cells that it will infect.

I'm one of the guys with a naturally occurring CCR5 Delta 32 mutation. It's probably why I survived all the pre ARV years. If I'd gotten the gene from both parents I'd actually have been immune to HIV. Now if they could stimulate the body to produce only mutated CD4 cells, that would be a huge step. Effectively that gene therapy would be equivalent to a vaccine. I remember the blood heating idea too. But it never made any logical sense. Before there was treatment, lots of guys had high fevers from various OI's and it didn't kill off the virus. After too long of a "drug holiday" in the early 2000's, just at the point where I returned to the treatment, I came down with a pneumonia (not PCP or other HIV related OI). I had a CD4 of 89, and a fever of 104. If 104 killed them off, I'd be free of these little buggers. But sadly their still swimming around inside me.

Posting this for late readers.If a guy chose to never get tested, he might not know he was Poz. That's not saying there wouldn't be effects on his immune system. Just that he didn't know they were there. His first indication might be an opportunistic infection. Something odd, and out of place that would cause a doctor to order an HIV test. Honestly that's how many Bi guys find out. 50% of Bi Poz guys were never tested before they were diagnosed. Do you want a real source. Take me for example. I was infected in the fall of 82 or spring of 83. I had an allergic reaction to an antibiotic at the height of the AIDS panic in 85. In emergency, they asked if I was gay, and it was clear they made the intimidate assumption I had AIDS, though nothing was said. I didn't see anybody from that point forward without gowns, masks, gloves, booties, hats, face splash shields -- the full medical drape. Biohazard markings on my room door, and biohazard disposal bins in the hall -- the full BS. They ignored all the signs of the allergic reaction. After all the compilations calmed down a week and a half later, an excited, thrilled internal medicine resident walked into my room and said "We finally think we figured out what you've got. We think you've got AIDS." His tone was "I won the Lotto - Millions of Dollars!!" It was the first year a test was available. They ran the test, and I was Poz. At an office visit a month later an infectious disease specialist said, "It was obvious form the first blood test in the ER, that you were having an allergic reaction. Sorry we missed that!" There were no ARVs in 85. I didn't even see a doctor again until a friend's death in 88 prompted me to seek out a GP, and the local specialist. Single drug treatments started in 89, but from what we know now, the virus would have been resistant to them within weeks. My CD4 counts were in the mid 700's, which is low normal for an unaffected person. Viral load tests did not exist yet. Multi-drug cocktails started in 96. I had no major illnesses, or opportunistic infections between the time I caught HIV and the time effective treatments became available 13 years later. CD4 counts and all other blood work were within normal parameters. Had it not been for that allergic reaction there would have been no reason to suspect I was Poz. Though I probably would have chosen to get tested sometime in that 13 years, there was no indication that would have made a doctor suspect I had HIV. Most of the people who died in the early 80's, were infected in the wild and fee 70's. We now know HIV has been in the US since the 1950's. Sadly lots of people did progress quickly. We lost a whole generation of our organizers, leaders, political activists and mentors. Our community is not as strong as it could have been. It is well documented in the literature that a person can live for ten or more years before anything bad happens. After primary infection the viral load settles down to a constant level - the so call viral load set point. If the body is fighting off the virus well, that set point can be quite low. I know I saw someone on here who's viral load before treatment was on 7,000. I read one study that calculated the optimal viral load for maximum spread of HIV is 30,000. With that you can live for more than 10 years without any adverse effects on your health, but you are infectious enough "efficiently" spread the disease. So if you are choosing to not get tested because you don't think you've ever had the fuck flu, you can easily be carrying HIV. Recommendations are to get tested every 3 to 6 months. Because you're BBing - make it every 3 months. Twenty percent of guys have never been tested.. About 25% of all guys who have HIV, DON'T KNOW they carry the virus. In the under 25 crowd, 40% have never been tested, and 60% of those younger guys with HIV, DON'T KNOW they have HIV. Get checked, then carry on fucking.

If you want to watch listen to the audio, watch the slides, and hear the Q & A at the end of the presentation, here is the actual presentation at CROI 2014. (Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections) The only way you can ethically do research of this kind, is long term follow up of couples in mixed HIV status relationships. The Swiss statement (there was no Swiss study), and others were based on HPTN 052, a study of third world heterosexual serodiscordant couples ( mixed HIV status couples, one Poz - one Neg, also called Magnetic, or seriodivergent couples). Both men and women in that study were Poz (technically both tops and bottoms by our terminology). It showed that a Poz person, under treatment was 96% less likely to transmit the virus than a person Not under treatment (Note the LESS likely -- 96% lower than the already low bottom to cut top 1 in 909, moderate bottom to uncut top 1 in 161, and high to to bottom 1 in 71 chances). There were lots of unanswered questions left by HPTN 052. Couples at least claimed to use rubbers most of the time. There were only 33 gay couples in that study, so there was too little info to draw any conclusions about us guys fucking around. The European based Partner study was designed to fill in those gaps. The couples bareback at least some of the time (logically most of the time). It included both straight and gay couples, with enough gay couples to make the results valid. Based on the number an type of sex acts, the researchers would have expected 86 of the gay Neg partners to become Poz. There were an estimated 16,400 gay sex acts, and 28,000 straight ones. In the first two years of the study, NONE of the Neg partners caught HIV from their Poz spouse. A little over a third of the gay couples fucked around on the side (3 ways? Open? Opps-- hee hee - He was just so hot?) and they BBd in those outside flings. About half of the ones who fucked around caught an other STI. The STI stuff implies that catching one may not spike the Pozzie's viral load, and may not hugely impact the Neg sustainability to catching HIV from an undetectable partner. Some of the Neg partners did catch HIV, but gene sequencing on their version of the virus proved it COULD NOT have come from their Poz partner. They caught it from fucking around outside of the relationship. So far this study has more than three times the "couple years of follow-up" of all other studies combined. To an epidemiologist following a large number of couples from one to two years, is the same a following one couple for a large number of years. With a cumulative 894 couple years of follow-up, and zero actual transmissions, there is sufficient data to draw statistically significant conclusions. But with statistics, they throw in a funny thing called a "confidence level." They are 95% certain that their results are correct. That 95% confidence level leaves the worst case theoretical possibilities of transmission, and those are the risks of transmission quoted in the study. They know the actual results lie somewhere within the boundaries between zero and those % risk, but they don't know where. At a press conference after the presentation, the head researcher said that it was more likely that their chance of acquiring HIV from their partner was nearer to zero, and indeed could be zero. While they may never be able to prove absolutely zero chance of transmission, I'd bet the chances of catching from an undetectable Pozzie will turn out the lower, than Mr. "Clean U B 2" who isn't quite as clean as he thought. Depending on who's stats you look at, between 25% and 44% of all Pozzies DO NOT KNOW they are Poz The one area where this study does not have enough data yet, is a Poz top dropping his load in a Neg bottom. Even though NOBODY got infected, that 95% confidence level makes them show a 4% risk for that scenario. This is just the preliminary report. For phase two of the study they want an additional 450 European base gay couples in serodiscordant couple and will follow them until 2017. That will give them enough date to Raise the confidence level, and LOWER the theoretical risk much closer to zero. Hey, your UK and European guys in relationships, SIGN UP! When asked what the study tells us about the chance of someone with an undetectable viral load transmitting HIV, the presenter said: "Our best estimate is it's zero." When people from a major research study, presenting in front of a room full of epidemiologists, internal disease specialists, and HIV service organizations makes an Estimate, you can be pretty damn sure it is a VERY educated guess. They won't risk their reputations. I keep saying, there is a certain irony in the fact us undetectable Poz guys, who the Neggies are most afraid of, are probably going to turn out to be the ones LEAST LIKELY to infect them! There is another study in Australia called "Opposites Attract" that will provide backup data. In it they can't ask the Pozzies about their BB activities, because laws would require the researches to report it to the police. They will only be able to question the Neg partners. (That may also have been the case in the Partner study, because BB was only reported from the Neg spouse's point of view.) The .AU study has a sub-component that will look at the seminal viral load of the Pozzies (bugs in the sperm). It is also due to report in 2017. I wish they were checking the viral load in anal mucus as well. Guess we'll have to wait for some other study to look at that

It would truly depend on the guy, and his view of your prospective roll in the hay.If he considers this event just a quicky, and you just an anonymous cumdump hole to drop a load in he would definitely say NO. (There's lots of guys on here for whom that is exactly what they think as tops, and exactly what they want as bottoms.) I suspect he might think it's more than that, because we're still talking about it days later. If your communication with this guy is online, it doesn't hurt to ask. You can always neck and suck, and chew on that yummy foreskin for the 20 minutes it takes for the results to show. (Use a timer / phone / alarm of some sort - the time is important for that test - you can't get lots in the heat of playing with that beautiful dick.) Personally I think if he truly thinks he's neg, and he's a decent guy, he'd say Yes. Hey, you're providing him with some sense of security and assurance about your status too. Not perfect, and the window periods still apply, but overall not a bad option. If he gets all pissey, and is a asshole when you suggest it, he probably wasn't the kind of guy you'd want to pop your BB cherry to begin with.