Living without HIV drugs

[calrockxxx]

... I'd advise you to see how HIV patients are treated in other countries with either government-run health insurance (e.g. Canada) or health care systems (e.g. the UK). These non-profit systems, all of which have much greater incentives to hold down costs than the US system does, all treat HIV in pretty much the same way.

Do you know of any resources to learn more about HIV treatment outside the US? I haven't been able to find much online, but I may not be looking in the right places.

[rubio2001]

I know these meds work because I was around when they were very first introduced. I will never forget a good friend of mine's boyfriend was clearly in his last DAYS on this earth. He looked as if he had been in a German concentration camp. I heard the next day that he had been put in the hospital and having seen many friends go the same way I knew it was only a matter of days. I was mowing my lawn just a couple of weeks later and who pulled over in their car? My friend and his boyfriend. He was still very, very thin but there was a color in his skin that had been gone for months. It was the first time I had heard about the new cocktail drugs and definitely the first time i believed that the science community had actually found a way to stop HIV from being a death sentence. The drugs have only gotten BETTER since then and my buddy's BF is still around.

Many of these drugs are now available in generic forms (they've been around that long and the patents have expired) which is already bringing the costs of these drugs down dramatically, even in the US.

[PhoenixGeoff]

Again, I am not an authority (I'm not speaking as a moderator here), and your body is yours, but as the disease wrecks you, you might change your mind. Enjoying your life and not taking meds once you get a low CD4 count are mutually exclusive goals.

I'll also point out, that by the time you do change your mind, you may have lost a lot of your quality of life permanently. I'm talking level of energy, ability to work, looks, everything. And the meds may not bring that back. Take it from someone who was around before the cocktails, AIDS is an ugly, ugly disease. I have a really hard time thinking of worse ways to die.

For once, listen to your elders. We were there. We remember. It scarred us. You do not want to go through this.

[PhoenixGeoff]

Do you know of any resources to learn more about HIV treatment outside the US? I haven't been able to find much online, but I may not be looking in the right places.

A lot depends on the country you'd be planning on visiting or living in. I've lived in Canada and have friends in the UK. Most developed countries have universal health coverage of some kind, but they also restrict access to citizens and (in some cases) some permanent residents. Coverage for tourists would generally be nonexistent; I've actually got a stamp in my passport from a trip to the UK which says "Not eligible for health benefits".

My suggestion, if you're considering emigration, would be to contact the consulate or embassy of the nation and ask for information. Alternatively, if you're being sent overseas for work purposes, your HR department should be able to help you.

[calrockxxx]

For once, listen to your elders. We were there. We remember. It scarred us. You do not want to go through this.

This reminded me that PBS is airing the documentary "We Were Here". The 2011 film follows five men in San Francisco during the AIDS crisis. I found it hard to watch, and it made really clear how fortunate we are today to have meds that help keep us healthy. It's available on DVD from Netflix, too.

[NYCBlack34]

Could people try responding to cumdrainer4u without attacking him? My gosh! I didn't know that the religious right had infiltrated this website. A lot of people on this thread are acting as intolerant as anything! What does scaring cumdrainer4u accomplish? You are allowed to disagree with him without shouting him down. A really good opportunity for discussion (and even education on BOTH sides) has been lost.

My issue is that some of the responses to cumdrainer4u were practically censorship. People use this site as an outlet and a way to express themselves freely. Please don't make them reconsider.

[HungLatinDom]

Could people try responding to cumdrainer4u without attacking him? My gosh! I didn't know that the religious right had infiltrated this website. A lot of people on this thread are acting as intolerant as anything! What does scaring cumdrainer4u accomplish? You are allowed to disagree with him without shouting him down. A really good opportunity for discussion (and even education on BOTH sides) has been lost.

My issue is that some of the responses to cumdrainer4u were practically censorship. People use this site as an outlet and a way to express themselves freely. Please don't make them reconsider.

As a moderator here, I have not seen anything overtly aggressive. I think you are being way too sensitive. If we would be as intolerant as you claim this post would not exist and he'd be banned. Please don't blow things out of proportion. We ARE having a discussion, about side effects, what happens if your CD4 get too low, even if some people called the very things that keep some of us alive "pieces of shit" and tried to argument from anecdotes written in ALL CAPS.

Explaining the bare facts of life without meds is not scaring.

There is some censorship on the website, we want a civil conversation and we ban assholes, jerks and users too dumb to realize the mess they create. The Internet is vast, enormous, it's full of assholes. We want a small haven 100% troll free, and to achieve that, we need to erase certain messages and call users out when they misbehave to others. While we offer an outlet to express oneself, we cannot offer a place where everybody thinks alike, specially in a subject like this. Even if the argument has been heated, it is still polite and based on facts and statistics, not on namecalling. If you want to discuss specific moderation issues, send me a PM.

[NYCBlack34]

That's fair. I only responded because it just seemed like your first post was aggressive as anything! But there were some good things that were learned in this conversation, so it's cool.

[HungLatinDom]

Being straightforward is not the same as being aggressive. Not by a mile.

What I quoted were facts: People make silly claims all the time. That website is misleading and dangerous. The first one is too obvious to deserve any argument. The proof of the second has been stated here multiple times.

If you or somebody else wants to believe what that website says, fine, it's your life (and your death) and your body, but don't ask others to remain silent when they see something it's clearly a lie or a deceit.

Finally, I ask you not to compare others to the religious right or call them intolerant just because they don't agree with you. Nobody here is trying to get you in jail, fighting to fire you from your job, denying you benefits and saying in national TV that people like you should be put to death. We are a small community, why do we have to be divided against ourselves, we have plenty of enemies out there.

We can agree to disagree, it's your body, but no need to call other intolerants or fanatics, specially when they have that attitude because their lives are in dan ger or because we have lost loved ones, or lived in fear because the lack of meds.

[rawTOP]

Being straightforward is not the same as being aggressive. Not by a mile.

There was a time a while back (not on this thread) where you stepped over the line in calling someone out. Generally you don't, but even you go too far sometimes.

[amsbttm]

The benefits of taking ARV's greatly outweigh any drawbacks. The reports during AIDS2012 were a confirmation that taking ARV's immediately after testing positive is the way forward. The immune system is upheld right from the get go and has less chance in the long run to diminish substantially. The risks of heart attacks, strokes, osteoporosis, dementia, diabetes, depression are all lessened by taking ARV's. The risk of damage to the liver and kidneys is small and theoretical as it has never been conclusively proven. Get tested, start treatment, start living.

[pheashivada]

Not only FDA scrutiny, but just look around you. In the eighties gay men were dying by dozens, whole generation was almost wiped. In Africa, mortality rates were sky high. If ARVs are so dangerous and unhealthy, how come we do not see any of that anymore? Common sense. Some people do not develop AIDS over time, they might not need HIV drugs, but for the vast majority of infected people, the drugs are the only thing so far that will keep them alive, despite the side effects.

Cum2me: No need to write everything in Caps.

um first off if its the usa, then the factor of capitalism would dictate one buys the approval of the fda.

second off the fda approved tylonol, and rit. both cause irreversable perment damage, and both are consistantly overperscribed, and very much abused be script addicts.

third, meds effect everyone diffrently, and since they force chemical changes, those chemicals increase cancer and other biological damages as the chemicals change the integrity of the RNA of the body.

fourth if the FDA was really there to HELP they would not have PAID TO BURY the chemotheripy like project that would reduce the viral load (and ability to transfere the virus to others) to zero.

fifth anyone who puts complete faith in the hands of people who produce these miracle pills (FDA) deserve to pay thet life savings away (imo) and are highly uneducated in the feids of capitalism, chemestry, and sociolog. they should seek enlightenement before they make these kinds of stupid claims in public forums... fail whale to u sir.

[GermanFucker]

third, meds effect everyone diffrently, and since they force chemical changes, those chemicals increase cancer and other biological damages as the chemicals change the integrity of the RNA of the body.

What you seem to forget: A working immune system kills off defective and malignant cells on a daily basis. A compromised immune system lets more of these slip through, allowing them to eventually turn into cancer. The question is not: Do antiretrovirals increase the cancer risk compared to a HIV-neg person. That's irrelevant. The question is: Do they cause more or less cancer than not going on meds when having HIV.

[pheashivada]

my advice tho to everyone is, try them... if they dont work then stop... if they do then thats better. just watch and regulate properly... while i can agree med resistant strains are sexy, they also mean more experimental meds get created. otherwise soon we will likely find ourselfs with hiv strains that CANNOT mix with certain meds (like chicken pox and asprin) resulting in potential major and violent outcomes. specially if HIV starts merging with other viruses. imagin swine HIV or HIV pox!

[pheashivada]

any meds introduce a forced chemical change. this unnatural change results in the cells of our body changing, these mutations can cause our bodies cells to attack each other (cancer). granted these meds help maintain our white blood count protecting out bodies from viral infection yes, but the truth is NO ONE knows the long term effects 10-30 years from now.