Does becoming poz really set you free?

[bearbandit]

So... "becoming poz really setting us free" is a rather amazing premise. Does contracting lung cancer set you free? Does contracting MS set you free? Does contracting Alzheimers set us free? At best it is an artificial "freedom" whose underlying premise seems to be "I'm fucked anyway, why not?". To me that doesn't sound like "freedom".

We actually have two diseases caused by HIV in the public mind: even those who were too young to remember the campaigns have absorbed the first anti-aids campaigns of the eighties and carry the messsage in the heads that "HIV=aids=death". At the same time massive leaps forwards have happened in the pharmaceutical industry, such that many aids support organisations are spreading their brief to include hepatitis C or sexual health in general as HIV is rapidly becoming just another STI as they can't admit that their original reason for existence is there any more. For the first time ever we're beginning to argue about the possibility of a functional cure - it doesn't eradicate HIV from the body but keeps it imprisoned where it can't do any harm.

Barebacking in the eighties and nineties certainly carried that underlying premise of "I'm fucked anyway, so why not?" Let me stress here and now that for me at least, bb was something I'd only do with a small select group of other HIV+ men. There was enough about the "revenge fuck" in the papers at the time. At the time we were fucked: common folk wisdom had it that once diagnosed you had about five years left. Indeed the UK's major HIV charity's advice was to work as long as you felt like it, cash in your pension, go on a cruise or whatever while you you could still enjoy it.

A recent report into the efficacy of condoms (sorry, can't remember where I found it, but it was from a source I trust) concluded that in the end in the late eighties condoms prevented 40% - 70% of potential infections. And this was in the days when you'd finish work, cook several meals and take them round "your guys" before attending to your own needs.

Now, with PrEP, you can get the same results, but at a price: firstly, the cost of the drugs, secondly adherence: look at the number of women who get pregnant while on the Pill, and thirdly emtricicabine and tenofovir are fairly toxic substances in themselves (declaration of interest: tenofovir nearly killed me last year) that I wouldn't swallow just in case I ran across some really hot guy. As time goes on, my bet is that guys on PrEP are going to start forgetting to take their pill resulting in resistance and incomplete protection.

After all that doom and gloom, you decide to go ahead HIV or no and end up getting pozzed. The odds are in your favour in that today's ARVs, taken religiously, are reliable and relatively side-effect free. The first infection is the catastrophic one: superinfection, if it happens, is like hen's teeth. If you pick up a few resistances on the way, there are plenty of alternatives for most people; the number of people like me, on salvage therapy, is shrinking, either through death or the discovery of new drugs.

As Jizzdump rightly says the problem is fear. Last year I was terrified of having a colonoscopy: I was already older than my father was when he developed colonic cancer and there's a history of bowel disease on my mother's side. I'm afraid I grossed out the doctor explaining the procedure: his description had just got past the second sphincter when I told him that so far he hadn't told me anything that I hadn't done for fun...

The days of five years and then a funeral are, thank the gods, long behind us, but living with HIV still takes a hell of a lot of discipline (and not the fun kind). I hear people complaining about having to take three or four pills a day (I take thirty). HIV is heavy on the liver and guts. A functional cure is still years away, current treatment is basically a siege. If you can cope with the discipline the drugs impose, and your insurance covers ALL drugs you might need, then yes, being diagnosed is a liberation. When they told me I had it amongst the thoughts that went through my head were "I won't see the 1999 eclipse... but I won't have a forties crisis... and I can stop worrying about getting HIV"

[MILEEND]

I like this frank discussion.

I am am Pz but on Meds and enjoy good health. I dont really want to jeopardise that but by god i really want to get banged and used by so many tops. The feeliing of being used and seeded by a hot top or tops really makes me feel so hard and horny and warm deep inside me, i really crave it, but is it all worth it?

[fuckboy20]

We actually have two diseases caused by HIV in the public mind: even those who were too young to remember the campaigns have absorbed the first anti-aids campaigns of the eighties and carry the messsage in the heads that "HIV=aids=death". At the same time massive leaps forwards have happened in the pharmaceutical industry, such that many aids support organisations are spreading their brief to include hepatitis C or sexual health in general as HIV is rapidly becoming just another STI as they can't admit that their original reason for existence is there any more. For the first time ever we're beginning to argue about the possibility of a functional cure - it doesn't eradicate HIV from the body but keeps it imprisoned where it can't do any harm.

Barebacking in the eighties and nineties certainly carried that underlying premise of "I'm fucked anyway, so why not?" Let me stress here and now that for me at least, bb was something I'd only do with a small select group of other HIV+ men. There was enough about the "revenge fuck" in the papers at the time. At the time we were fucked: common folk wisdom had it that once diagnosed you had about five years left. Indeed the UK's major HIV charity's advice was to work as long as you felt like it, cash in your pension, go on a cruise or whatever while you you could still enjoy it.

A recent report into the efficacy of condoms (sorry, can't remember where I found it, but it was from a source I trust) concluded that in the end in the late eighties condoms prevented 40% - 70% of potential infections. And this was in the days when you'd finish work, cook several meals and take them round "your guys" before attending to your own needs.

Now, with PrEP, you can get the same results, but at a price: firstly, the cost of the drugs, secondly adherence: look at the number of women who get pregnant while on the Pill, and thirdly emtricicabine and tenofovir are fairly toxic substances in themselves (declaration of interest: tenofovir nearly killed me last year) that I wouldn't swallow just in case I ran across some really hot guy. As time goes on, my bet is that guys on PrEP are going to start forgetting to take their pill resulting in resistance and incomplete protection.

After all that doom and gloom, you decide to go ahead HIV or no and end up getting pozzed. The odds are in your favour in that today's ARVs, taken religiously, are reliable and relatively side-effect free. The first infection is the catastrophic one: superinfection, if it happens, is like hen's teeth. If you pick up a few resistances on the way, there are plenty of alternatives for most people; the number of people like me, on salvage therapy, is shrinking, either through death or the discovery of new drugs.

As Jizzdump rightly says the problem is fear. Last year I was terrified of having a colonoscopy: I was already older than my father was when he developed colonic cancer and there's a history of bowel disease on my mother's side. I'm afraid I grossed out the doctor explaining the procedure: his description had just got past the second sphincter when I told him that so far he hadn't told me anything that I hadn't done for fun...

The days of five years and then a funeral are, thank the gods, long behind us, but living with HIV still takes a hell of a lot of discipline (and not the fun kind). I hear people complaining about having to take three or four pills a day (I take thirty). HIV is heavy on the liver and guts. A functional cure is still years away, current treatment is basically a siege. If you can cope with the discipline the drugs impose, and your insurance covers ALL drugs you might need, then yes, being diagnosed is a liberation. When they told me I had it amongst the thoughts that went through my head were "I won't see the 1999 eclipse... but I won't have a forties crisis... and I can stop worrying about getting HIV"

Really really like your post bearbandit.

My biggest fear of first barebacking and deciding to continue was what you described. I have people close to me who grew up during the time when AIDS was around. Having friend's drop dead, people being afraid to retrieve the body, having special nurses or medical people watch over an AIDS patient because most wouldn't, the quilt and actually KNOWING people who were part of the quilt and the memories, and of course not having to send any christmas cards because no one is left in your address book. These are what people very close to me went through. Not only that but the fact that AIDS wiped out so many men and did major harm to the leather scene as well. I had to read books like conduct unbecoming, and the band played on, watch documentaries and seeing first hand the pain that the memories of AIDS brings back to those close to me just by relieving it or recalling someone.

So you'd think that with all this knowledge and education there is no way in hell anyone who knows about AIDS should bareback and should be afraid too. I do find it interesting that they are trying to find a way to as you said, "seal" or secure it in the body where it can't do any harm. You are also right about if one can afford the medicine, insurance, discipline, and OD on pills that it might work out for them. Some get lucky and live a longer life and some don't.

Now the flip side. What if you can't afford the insurance, you can't do the discipline, or handle the drugs and everything else that goes with it like the stigma and the immunity and liver issues. Should you do it? Some don't have a choice and it happens to them. Some make the choice and some say fuck it.

I guess I'm the stupid one. I told myself that when I decided to continue barebacking that I was going to do it regardless of the outcome because it's not like HIV can be cured. I knew that up front. But at the same time I don't have the insurance, have a low paying job, don't have much confidence or discipline. I've tried and been partially successful at finding ways around the obstacles but more then likely they won't be resolved. It was never my intention to intentionally get pozzed. More like it would just happen all the time. No tooth brush, needle, or blade required. Just eventually it would happen and when it happened it happened. But it's because of friends and people I've met in my life I am able to make decisions for myself. I am able to accept the consequences or results of my actions. And I'm able to accept that if things don't go as I wanted them that I may have no control over it or it might not be my fault or it might. I probably won't be one of the lucky ones that live a long time. I might die a horrible and painful slow death. This scares a lot of people but I don't want to regret what I do. Even mistakes or bad decisions whether I or others view them bad are my decisions and I want to be the kind of person who owns them.

But I'll tell you what. If it does get to the point where it's really bad and it doesn't look like there is much left I will live it up. Life is too short to just give up and die. But at the same time life is also too short to get yourself a disease that potentially shortens your lifespan. But everyone makes their own choices.

Again, thank you so much for your post. It brought back the memories, experience, and knowledge that I was taught and that I know people have gone through. It just further strengthens my resolve to do what I do and be own it. It's not going to be easy telling certain people what I've done and I'm sure that anyone who takes the time and effort to try and help someone make the right decisions, stay safe, and be smart will so this as a smack in the face to them. But again, it's my decision.

Now that I think about it. It's probably not becoming poz that frees you. It's accepting everything about it and yourself that frees you. But then again, you don't need to be poz to do that.

Edited March 23, 2013 by fuckboy20

[bottomdu33]

Yes I feel free now. Pozzed I can get fucked anywhere by any guys without askig a status.

[Guest ff-whole]

Do people who smoke continuously fear that they might get lung cancer - a much predictable possibility...

I don't think so, but they know it is bad, but they are addicted.

Now I have become slowly addicted to raw bb sex...

...just a thought... not trying to imply anything...

[rcc226]

being poz sets you free

[bbzh]

I'm one of those guys who slowly got into barebacking a decade ago, pozzed in '09, but was tested regularly and caught it before it did too much damage to my body. I had no problems handling the meds and am now undetectable with a high CD4 count. I do use this "good fortune" to take any load I feel like. It is freeing, but I do realize that everything went "right" for me. I've got a good job and insurance pays for the meds. I have not been financially compromised at all.

Now the bf is a slightly different story. I don't know if he pozzed me or I pozzed him (or we got the bug from others). He found out last year after months of me applying pressure for him to get tested. He had no problems with the meds and quickly got to undetectable status. The worrying thing at the moment is that his CD4 count is not climbing. He is still well below 200 which is in the range where you can get full blown AIDS. He tries to mimic my carefree approach to sex but has picked up other STDs (including anal warts which were painful to have removed). As long as his CD4 count remains low, the warts will probably come back. In a nutshell, he is a bit down and not feeling so "free" at the moment. This has the potential to complicate our relationship, in that he might eventually want/demand monogamy. I just spent weekend in Berlin taking loads in darkrooms. I got a fair share of sarcastic texts while there. I don't do this often. It's my way of letting off steam from the pressures of my job, but I accept that I am also a part-time slut.

Anyway, my point is that it's not necessarily smooth sailing for all. And if you have tendencies to abuse your body in other ways - i.e. alcohol, overeating, hard drugs etc- you are probably in for a rougher ride.

I'm not proud of being poz and I don't celebrate it. But I knew what the risks were and I accept the consequences of my actions. It has not been so easy for my bf to accept his.

[wood]

I'm one of those guys who slowly got into barebacking a decade ago, pozzed in '09, but was tested regularly and caught it before it did too much damage to my body. I had no problems handling the meds and am now undetectable with a high CD4 count. I do use this "good fortune" to take any load I feel like. It is freeing, but I do realize that everything went "right" for me. I've got a good job and insurance pays for the meds. I have not been financially compromised at all.

Now the bf is a slightly different story. I don't know if he pozzed me or I pozzed him (or we got the bug from others). He found out last year after months of me applying pressure for him to get tested. He had no problems with the meds and quickly got to undetectable status. The worrying thing at the moment is that his CD4 count is not climbing. He is still well below 200 which is in the range where you can get full blown AIDS. He tries to mimic my carefree approach to sex but has picked up other STDs (including anal warts which were painful to have removed). As long as his CD4 count remains low, the warts will probably come back. In a nutshell, he is a bit down and not feeling so "free" at the moment. This has the potential to complicate our relationship, in that he might eventually want/demand monogamy. I just spent weekend in Berlin taking loads in darkrooms. I got a fair share of sarcastic texts while there. I don't do this often. It's my way of letting off steam from the pressures of my job, but I accept that I am also a part-time slut.

Anyway, my point is that it's not necessarily smooth sailing for all. And if you have tendencies to abuse your body in other ways - i.e. alcohol, overeating, hard drugs etc- you are probably in for a rougher ride.

I'm not proud of being poz and I don't celebrate it. But I knew what the risks were and I accept the consequences of my actions. It has not been so easy for my bf to accept his.

This is a good example about what bothers me when people say things like being poz sets you free. Free from what? disease and possible death? absolutely not. A lifetime of care free sex? Nope, because some people wont want to mess with a poz guy, and or if you dont stick to a drug regimine you likely become very sick and die. Free from commitment? nope, you are commited to doctors and drugs if you want to live.

Sorry if you are looking at a whollistic view, there is no way that any rational person can say that being poz sets you free.

[firefighter]

Really really like your post bearbandit.

My biggest fear of first barebacking and deciding to continue was what you described. I have people close to me who grew up during the time when AIDS was around. Having friend's drop dead, people being afraid to retrieve the body, having special nurses or medical people watch over an AIDS patient because most wouldn't, the quilt and actually KNOWING people who were part of the quilt and the memories, and of course not having to send any christmas cards because no one is left in your address book. These are what people very close to me went through. Not only that but the fact that AIDS wiped out so many men and did major harm to the leather scene as well. I had to read books like conduct unbecoming, and the band played on, watch documentaries and seeing first hand the pain that the memories of AIDS brings back to those close to me just by relieving it or recalling someone.

So you'd think that with all this knowledge and education there is no way in hell anyone who knows about AIDS should bareback and should be afraid too. I do find it interesting that they are trying to find a way to as you said, "seal" or secure it in the body where it can't do any harm. You are also right about if one can afford the medicine, insurance, discipline, and OD on pills that it might work out for them. Some get lucky and live a longer life and some don't.

Now the flip side. What if you can't afford the insurance, you can't do the discipline, or handle the drugs and everything else that goes with it like the stigma and the immunity and liver issues. Should you do it? Some don't have a choice and it happens to them. Some make the choice and some say fuck it.

I guess I'm the stupid one. I told myself that when I decided to continue barebacking that I was going to do it regardless of the outcome because it's not like HIV can be cured. I knew that up front. But at the same time I don't have the insurance, have a low paying job, don't have much confidence or discipline. I've tried and been partially successful at finding ways around the obstacles but more then likely they won't be resolved. It was never my intention to intentionally get pozzed. More like it would just happen all the time. No tooth brush, needle, or blade required. Just eventually it would happen and when it happened it happened. But it's because of friends and people I've met in my life I am able to make decisions for myself. I am able to accept the consequences or results of my actions. And I'm able to accept that if things don't go as I wanted them that I may have no control over it or it might not be my fault or it might. I probably won't be one of the lucky ones that live a long time. I might die a horrible and painful slow death. This scares a lot of people but I don't want to regret what I do. Even mistakes or bad decisions whether I or others view them bad are my decisions and I want to be the kind of person who owns them.

But I'll tell you what. If it does get to the point where it's really bad and it doesn't look like there is much left I will live it up. Life is too short to just give up and die. But at the same time life is also too short to get yourself a disease that potentially shortens your lifespan. But everyone makes their own choices.

Again, thank you so much for your post. It brought back the memories, experience, and knowledge that I was taught and that I know people have gone through. It just further strengthens my resolve to do what I do and be own it. It's not going to be easy telling certain people what I've done and I'm sure that anyone who takes the time and effort to try and help someone make the right decisions, stay safe, and be smart will so this as a smack in the face to them. But again, it's my decision.

Now that I think about it. It's probably not becoming poz that frees you. It's accepting everything about it and yourself that frees you. But then again, you don't need to be poz to do that.

That was an amazing post, I found it very emotional but hey I'm a soppy git anyway but that line "and of course not having to send any christmas cards because no one is left in your address book". it really got me. I think this is an amazing thread, loving the open and honest comments.

[AnonBBottom]

I agree with firefighter, Fuckboy20 that was a very well put together post, emotional, thoughtful, insightful, and from the heart. I wish you well, and send thoughts of hugs. I recently (last week) was diagnosed HIV Poz. I'm 49 years old, and have been fucking bareback for the last 2 or 3 years only. Prior to that I had a wife and family and lived the so called straight life as a gay married man. I did play butt always safe. Since the divorce, I went a bit more wild as you can see from my profile. And I have accepted (I think) the fact that I was eventually going to get pozzed. Now I am, and of course have mixed emotions about it. I know that today's medical sciences do help extend life and the quality of life, but I also understand that it doesn't cure it.

[bearbandit]

Now that I think about it. It's probably not becoming poz that frees you. It's accepting everything about it and yourself that frees you. But then again, you don't need to be poz to do that.

Revisiting this thread after seeing new posts. Fuckboy, that's a brilliant line: truthful and profound. I'm due to be presenting a training session for London sexual helplines on barebacking in a few weeks. May I borrow your words?

[fuckboy20]

@firefighter:

Thank you. Thank you so much for that. That saying is something that will always leave an impression on me as well. I can't imagine what it would be like to lose that many friends and people close to you. Also it's never bad or wrong or bad to be emotional or sappy sometimes. It helps sometimes.

@AnonBBottom

Thank you and also thank you for announcing that you recently become poz. They don't really make greeting cards like "Congrats ur poz" or "Oh shit your poz now.". I don't know if it's right to welcome someone into being poz, celebrate, worry, or caution. I'm glad that at least you aren't living a false life anymore and you have accepted who you are and also understood the risks. I think what being poz really means is you just cross a line. It's a line that you can never undo or go back to you just have to accept it. And I'm glad that you have. Everyone's experience is difference.

@bearbandit:

It's been a while bearbandit. Congratulations on actually doing a seminar on barebacking. You may definitely use those words. I'm glad and happy that you will teaching and talking about barebacking.

Also just a little update about being poz.

I thought back to when I first found out I was poz. I wasn't really shocked and in a way I did not really care. What bothered me more was the way the clinic handled it and how I got the safer preach. I can honestly say that I probably did not care about what happened to me. Where I was, with my job, and everything that was going on in my life being poz did not phase me simply because I did not care abou myself or my life. Although I say I diddn't care part of me did and there was some caution because I barebacked way less after that. But I think the concern was more for others and not wanting to pass it on to anyone else.

Anyways to get to the point my count is around 590 well over 450. I think my actual viral load isn't too high. But I can take any and every medication except one I forgot which it is. I'm not on medication yet simply because I moved to florida with my partners and transition from doctors and clinics. But in some funny way I feel like I have a clean bill of health. I forgot about being poz not because of disregard to myself and my body but because my partners are both poz and are on meds and they are happy and healthy. It's because I got tested early and found out only a few months after that I was poz that I won't have to go through what others have gone through and hopefully I'll have a long, succesful and fun life.

Even the loser that i was with a shitty job and no insurance there is still ADAP which helps if you don't have a high paying job or insurance. If you catch it early it really isn't a death sentence anymore it's only a death sentance if you make it that way. That being said those who have had it for years and diddn't know..unfortunately that's another story. I'm very grateful that's all I can really say.

Also where I am staying now someone my partners knew the guy was going on about how people with AIDS are sickly, horrible, deserve it, and how he doesn't want to be like that was put in my place. My partner explained to him that all three of us are positive and that we are very healthy, happy, and it's not a death sentance like it used to be. Not only that but this guy never even has sex because he is worried of catching something EVEN playing safe. I can't stand people like that but it would be worse to be like him. I'm still in the process of making friends and meeting people and socializing more and I have told some people I am poz and they still accept me. I know that there will be people who won't accept it and will have nothing to do with me but I don't want people like that in my life anyways. I don't know if I'll ever be OPEN about it like some are. Part of me really really wants to but for the time being as with other things I'm just going to let things go their course.

I'm sorry that some guys will get sick, that some guys do develop full blown aids and that some will and have lost friends who don't accept them or even loved ones and that it can and does ruin their life. But everyone is different and everyone has their own path. I can say that it hasn't ruined me, killed me, or made me an outcast in any way. Like leather did in the past for me it's actually made me stronger and happier. I can't say I wanted to be poz but whether poz or neg as long as you have friends and people who accept and love you it doesn't matter what you are. I just want to live as a strong poz man and leatherman and someday be able to be open about both.

Thank you everyone.

[PozMasterNC]

I've often thought the "setting you free" idea, has to be a bottom's concept. As an almost total top, being poz has often been at the very least an annoyance. I don't breed without disclosing, and there have been many a hot piece of ass I missed out on because of their fear of it. But, over all its not been a serious problem either. My partner is negative, and our slaves are negative. I breed out live in daily, and the part timer whenever possible. I think the concept of setting you free, has to be a case by case, based on your own thoughts and or fears, regarding being poz. That, if your primarily a bottom, and just don't want to worry about it anymore, that getting it over with could be a freeing experience. But I don't think the concept reaches the mind of every poz guy out there.

[lower_bucks_bottom]

First I was NOT chasing. I am a bit, well more then a bit, of a hypochondriac so I was always deathly afraid of getting HIV and I NEVER barebacked. But I loved to suck and swallow and probably got it that way. Now, I admit, I do bareback and love it, but I am still a hypochondriac and so I still live in fear of getting a resistant strain, or something else.