Accepting our POZ-ativity

[HardaddyMA]

I chat with so many poz men who haven't really accepted the fact that they are POZ, let alone celebrate it or want to share their thoughts, feelings, experiences and fantasies on a site like this one.. is it just me or did other POZ-men have a hard time accepting the fact that they were POZ, let alone that there are multiple sites where it is celebrated and even sought out?

How long after your diagnosis did u really feel PROUD about being POZ??

[GermanFucker]

I chat with so many poz men who haven't really accepted the fact that they are POZ, let alone celebrate it or want to share their thoughts, feelings, experiences and fantasies on a site like this one.. is it just me or did other POZ-men have a hard time accepting the fact that they were POZ, let alone that there are multiple sites where it is celebrated and even sought out?

How long after your diagnosis did u really feel PROUD about being POZ??

Playing devil's advocate here, but: Why should anyone feel proud about being poz? Or ashamed for that matter? For most gay guys it's just an incidental aspect of life, not a reason to behave or be treated differently. For most guys it's something that happened along the way because they liked natural, bareback sex, but the vast majority didn't seek out HIV. I didn't seek out being white / european. I just happen to be. Just as some guys happen to be poz. Big whoop.

There isn't something wrong with appreciating poz culture, but neither is there an imperative to celebrate being poz. I'd compare it with MENSA. Yes, it's obviously nice to be able to talk to likeminded individuals and to be stimulated in a way only such a setting can, but most smart people don't join MENSA, they just happen to be smart and contribute to society in any other way they see fit.

So to me - same as with so many things - it's about choice. Accepting being poz still means one gets to choose what to do with it, how to define oneself. I mean, why should this be any different for poz guys than for neg guys? Why should a neg jock be allowed define oneself as a jock but a poz triathlete can't do that? Why should a poz guy just want to be sought out because of the virus, not because of any other aspect he deems more important, be it body hair, athleticisms, culturedness, whatever?

So I think there is a huge difference between being in denial about being poz (bad) and just choosing not to let it define one's (sex) life (one's right as an individual).

[wood]

Playing devil's advocate here, but: Why should anyone feel proud about being poz? Or ashamed for that matter? For most gay guys it's just an incidental aspect of life, not a reason to behave or be treated differently. For most guys it's something that happened along the way because they liked natural, bareback sex, but the vast majority didn't seek out HIV. I didn't seek out being white / european. I just happen to be. Just as some guys happen to be poz. Big whoop.

There isn't something wrong with appreciating poz culture, but neither is there an imperative to celebrate being poz. I'd compare it with MENSA. Yes, it's obviously nice to be able to talk to likeminded individuals and to be stimulated in a way only such a setting can, but most smart people don't join MENSA, they just happen to be smart and contribute to society in any other way they see fit.

Well said. I dont mean to knock the OP, but why do you want to be proud to have an incurable disease? How many people do you know that are proud to have cancer, or parkinsons, or alzheimer's for that matter? It makes NO logical sense to be proud of something that no one really wants, let alone something that can kill you.

the best analogy I can make would be someone saying they are proud to have got lung cancer from smoking. Yes, they may have really enjoyed the cigarettes along the way, but does that mean they really want cancer? Id say they dont.

[bearbandit]

Shame and pride are pretty much antonyms and the reaction most of us have when diagnosed poz is shame. Pretty much from the moment you're infected body systems start to degrade. Much of that is held in check by HAART, but we've no idea how much. It's only recently that HIV gerontology has come to the fore, because for fifteen, twenty years we never thought we'd need it as a speciality. Now, with guys entering their fourth decade of life with HIV, what we don't know about HIV and aging is getting to be pretty important.

Saying that you're proud to be poz is a way of throwing society's opinion back in their face and making them think again. I'm as sure as I can be that I seroconverted in 1980: the rash I took to the clap clinic is identical to the photographs of seroconversion illness rash. I'm not a long-term non-progressor: I've had my share of pneumonias, thrush, herpes, had my CD4 down to double figures and so on. The point of pride here is as Sondheim said: "I'm Still Here". Internally my organs have aged faster than I have physically, but that's the case for many people with HIV, especially people who've been in long term treatment (I started in 1989).

The media used to paint us as dead within a few years, now we're brave souls battling on. Gimme a fuckin' break! The stigma of HIV is such that I am the only person with HIV in the entire country (Wales) to be portrayed in the media as being HIV+. Hell, most poz guys don't even put it on their profiles on gaydar. A hell of a lot of guys on bbrts list their status as "ask me".

Being told you're HIV+ is like walking through a one way door. No, I didn't want it (never even knew it was there), but now I know I have it, it's literally part of me and I'm pretty proud of me in general, so that means I have to be proud to be poz...

[PhoenixGeoff]

Playing devil's advocate here, but: Why should anyone feel proud about being poz? Or ashamed for that matter?

I think this should be true. I think it's an ideal though, something to aspire to. It's how I try to look at it.

It is true that very many people (both straight and gay, poz and neg) look at an HIV diagnosis as a source of shame because they associate it with sexual promiscuity. And that is something that broad swathes of society find shameful.

And because it's a source of shame, there's a temptation for us, having experienced the stigma of being gay, and having reacted to that through pride, to react in the same way to being poz.

Should their be shame or pride in being gay? Ideally, no. It is what it is, and our sense of shame or pride should come from what we do with it. But we still have gay pride marches. And indeed, those are a necessary thing for many people who have been taught that their very selves are shameful.

I hope we can move to the point where HIV is treated like what it is: an illness. But I also understand the need to react against what other people do.

For most gay guys it's just an incidental aspect of life, not a reason to behave or be treated differently. For most guys it's something that happened along the way because they liked natural, bareback sex, but the vast majority didn't seek out HIV.

I'd hardly call HIV "incidental". Maybe it's something you get used to. I remember that first year after my diagnosis. I'd been barebacking for quite a while, and it was expected. It still gave me a shock. And there are still difficulties to be navigated all the time, ten years after that happened. You face rejection every time you approach someone. I've had people show interest and then disappear after they find out. What do you do with that? Retreat into a poz ghetto, which in some ways this site is? Stick your head in the sand? Curl up and die in a corner?

So maybe this points the way to a source of pride. I'm not proud (or ashamed) of having HIV; it is what it is: a disease. But I can take pride (or shame) in the actions I've done as a result. It takes honesty to put my status truthfully in my profiles. I can be proud of stating the truth. It takes courage to risk a potential relationship by disclosing to a guy I really like. I can be proud of my bravery. It takes care and concern to talk about this stuff with and in front of men going through this sort of thing. I can be proud of my love for all of you.

[evilqueerpig]

As someone who's NEVER had a condom on/in me, HIV was merely inevitable. When I was diagnosed, I knew it wouldn't really change my life. Being POZ doesn't define me, but we're all individuals, so let's not judge those who don't share our opinions.

[slowfuck]

Being told you're HIV+ is like walking through a one way door. No, I didn't want it (never even knew it was there), but now I know I have it, it's literally part of me and I'm pretty proud of me in general, so that means I have to be proud to be poz...

I'm pretty proud of you too, the way you help educate people through your experience. I agree that many are proud of who they have become through the experience of becoming and being poz, and the strong light it shines on what is really important in life. Living it boldy rather than simply existing timidly through a suffocating layer of fear. Not for everyone but a point of view that resonates for me.

I imagine as intimated by the OP that there are plenty of strong younger guys for whom becoming poz is seen as a rite of passage to a hedonistic sex life. I suspect they will be proud of being poz and joining the poz community when the messages from elsewhere is one of fear and rejection.

My views as ever. An interesting thread.

[tboyer]

I imagine as intimated by the OP that there are plenty of strong younger guys for whom becoming poz is seen as a rite of passage to a hedonistic sex life. I suspect they will be proud of being poz and joining the poz community when the messages from elsewhere is one of fear and rejection.

I would say this seems to be true, after all, if one fucks bareback one is likely to contract HIV