Less than 40% of poz guys have undetectable viral load?

[Blueyedsoul]

Some how, I am not surprised by this at all. Albeit I am only offering anecdotal evidence, I find that when I talk with an undetectable guy, many of them do not even know what their VL and CD4 count is! Now that I am on PrEP, I have opened up myself to undetectable's. When we discuss PrEP and their regiment, many of them actually have no idea where they stand. And they don't really seem to care. I can count on one hand how many are truly in tune with their health. My experiences may also be contributed to geography. I am in an area in between Palm Springs and Los Angeles. As someone who teaches at a school of medicine, public health colleagues are constantly reminding me that our population is highly illiterate and lacking many basic math and science skills. Unfortunately, the minority community (Blacks and Latino's - many being illegal aliens) which is predominate in my region also have some of the fastest growing infection rates in the country. Due to a lack of insurance (let's not get side tracked by Obamacare/ACA), once diagnosed and treated their healthcare is administered by the county. Again, they just swallow a pill and go about their lives. They don't ask the pertinent questions while some just don't have the financial means to keep consistent appointments. As a result, compliance is skewed and so are the numbers. Just spend a day on A4A and talk to undetectable's. I think many would be shocked as to how ignorant they are concerning their own health.

[tboyer]

well thanks for being an asshole.

Honestly its people like you that give responsible HIV+ people a bad reputation.

People on meds are highly unlikely to infect others, yet you are, and lie about taking medication.

Well said Wood. Assholes abound.

I tell dudes im on meds all the time but never have been on meds

I think it's unrealistic to expect everyone to always tell the truth (though I do, when it comes to stats) Perhaps Pozside905 is preforming a community service by showing this

[Poz1956]

Just spend a day on A4A and talk to undetectable's. I think many would be shocked as to how ignorant they are concerning their own health.

Just spend a day on any hook-up site and talk with any average dude who uses language like "Healthy," "Clean," "D & D Free" and "UB2." You will be equally shocked at how ignorant they are concerning their own health. Those guys think that language is magic talisman to keep them Neg. Most of them have zero knowledge around HIV, other than Bad - Scared - Run Away!

For that matter, talk to any random heterosexual male on the street. He'll be even more clueless about his health. Probably been years since he checked his blood pressure, or had his cholesterol numbers done

Personally I think most Poz guys are reasonably aware of their health. But yes, I can think of several situations where somebody might know less than average. People for whom English is a second language probably can't understand the jargon. A doctor trying to squeeze as many patients as possible into each day might not take the time to explain things. Viral load, CD4 count, CD4/CD8 ratios and the rest are pretty deep geek science. It's all probably well above somebody who struggles with the three Rs. People with substance abuse issues have other things on their mind. The homeless are more worried about their next meal than their viral load. Then there are those formerly "Clean" and "D Free" guys who knew nothing about HIV before they caught it. Many of them won't bother to lean anything now. And quite honestly, after a few years the doctor's appointments get down to "The numbers are all good. No need to change anything. Keep taking the pills."

Edited July 4, 2014 by Poz1956

[bearbandit]

I'll never forget the thirty-ish guy who was chatting me up on Grindr. "what's you HIV status?" I asked. "What's HIV?" he replied...

[rawTOP]

Treatment Cascade graphs are meant for health care professionals. There is a lot of jargon in the reports that accompany these charts, and Undetectable is defined in the accompanying text. The target audience understands the meaning of Undetectable in the context of the area covered by that specific treatment cascade analysis. I don't think you'll get these guys to use dumbed down language.

That's not my point - I can deal with details. My point is why are public health officials obsessed with such low viral loads? Why aren't they happy with relatively low viral loads? It would seem to me that if the person is on treatment and the treatment is working pretty well, that they should be happy with that result and see it as success.

[AgentColby]

I tell dudes im on meds all the time but never have been on meds

And you somehow find that to be a good thing? If anything, your statement is a window to the type of person you are: dishonest, immoral and someone people are better off not knowing or having in their life. There is nothing attractive about misleading people and putting their health in danger. I am a big believe of karma and sooner or later, you will get what is coming to you.

[Pozside905]

okay correction. 90% of dudes ask me if i'm poz or not and thats it. rarely do I get asked about meds but yes a few times i've said yes. More times than not I tell them i'm on no meds and healthy

I tell dudes im on meds all the time but never have been on meds

[wood]

Research shows that around 50% of guys say they will never knowingly play with a Poz guy. Amusingly it get as high as 68% for guys that have never been tested. My personal experience says that there is a good chunk about that (maybe 20-30%) who don't agree with "Never" but turn down Poz guys when the situation comes up. They'd cross the serosatus divide if they loved the guy, or felt some real connection, but not for a one night stand.

When I try to discuss the protective level of undetectable viral loads with "Think they're Neg" guys, there always seems to be a sticking point around this issue. Since most people are going to reject a Poz guy as soon as he reveals his status, I've always felt that it was illogical that someone would lie about meds, adherence, and viral loads. I've always figured that if a guy was going to fib to fuck, he'd lie about his status.

The serostatus unknown guys always counter that a Poz guy might lie about being on ARVs, taking them regularly without skipping doses, and his viral load. He'd do it just to get laid. They insist that admitting he's Poz does not mean the rest is the truth. We go round and round and round, between my view and theirs.

I guess they're right, and I've just been proved an idiot. There really are sociopaths who will reveal their status, and lie about the rest.

It's comments like this that make me continually reevaluate whether or not I want to contribute to this community. This just added another tick to the "Not" column.

Couldn't have said it better myself, and fully agree with the last statement too.

While I don't condone it, If a undetectable guy lied about his status, and had condomless sex, the end risk is still quite low, as new research is showing. For a person not on med's, its the exact opposite. Doing things like what Pozside905 is doing only compounds the stigma of HIV.

[wood]

okay correction. 90% of dudes ask me if i'm poz or not and thats it. rarely do I get asked about meds but yes a few times i've said yes. More times than not I tell them i'm on no meds and healthy

yeah okay. Oh btw, there really isnt such a thing as no meds and healthy for the vast majority of people. HIV is already damaging your body.

[bearbandit]

yeah okay. Oh btw, there really isnt such a thing as no meds and healthy for the vast majority of people. HIV is already damaging your body.

Absofuckinglutely! It's why I'm in the hit it hard and fast group. I seroconverted before there were drugs available and there are days, although I'm basically physically well, I just don't want to get out of bed because it's started hurting already.

[wood]

Absofuckinglutely! It's why I'm in the hit it hard and fast group. I seroconverted before there were drugs available and there are days, although I'm basically physically well, I just don't want to get out of bed because it's started hurting already.

Yup, anyone who isn't on medication today and knows they are HIV+ is a damn IDIOT in my opinion. Almost everywhere around the world there are programs for free or low cost treatment, and the med's today have few side effects for most people. Want to live and fuck more? get on the damn med's.

Untreated HIV kills fast or slow. period.