Concerned About a Poz Buddy

[VersatileBreeder]

Long story short- recently I met a guy on BBRT, a bottom poz dude who lives near me. We talked a lot on BBRT, then continued to talk via text/phone. We then met out a few times, haven't hooked up surprisingly that we met on BBRT, but I think that is because we've established more of a good friendship than fuck buddies.

Yesterday, we were hanging out at his place just talking about random crap and the topic of being poz came up. I know he is poz based on his BBRT profile, but we never talked about it. I asked him how long he has been poz for. He said that he found out 12 years ago, when he was 19. What he told me next shocked the hell out of me.

He told me that since finding out he is poz, he has never seen a doctor for it, nor gotten on meds. He said he doesn't want to deal with it and doesn't want to face reality (yes, he actually said that). He tried to change the subject to something else, but I wasn't letting him off the hook that easy. I told him that nobody wants to face the reality of being poz when they find out, but once you see a doctor regularly and go on meds, it takes a lot of the stress off being poz. I told him that he is doing himself a huge disservice by not facing being poz head on and being proactive about it.

He argued that he has never been in a hospital once since finding out and has never been terribly sick. I told him that's not terribly surprising because people can go years without any symptoms, but make no mistake, that virus is going to come get you one day if you're not on meds. I saw a chill run up his spine when I said that. It's like I was making him face the reality he didn't want to face. He said that taking a pill everyday is a constant reminder of having HIV and he won't have that. I told him it does feel like that in the beginning, but it wears off to literally just being part of your daily routine.

I pleaded with him to please see a doctor and get on meds. I told him 12 years is way longer than a person should wait, but going on meds now will be better than never going on meds. He smiled and said he'll think about it, but I know he's not going to. As a friend, I am actually really concerned about him.

How can a person be so delusional about something so serious? He could be saving his life and he chooses not to. It's like he's made himself believe that if he doesn't worry about having HIV, it's not ever going to hurt him. I am trying to make him see otherwise. It's his life, his body and his health. I know that and I'm not trying to force him into anything, but I almost feel like I can't just sit by and watch him slowly kill himself like this.

What would you guys do if you were in my shoes?

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

I would take it easy. Bring up the subject from time to time, but be careful not to harp on him. Mention your own experience (eg, saw my hiv doc today and.... or got my results today cd4 way up and ....). Look for similar avoidance in other areas of his life.

[open_hole_24_7 Lion]

To begin with you have no idea weather or not he might be a none progresser. Some one who has the crc5 mutation from one side of his parentage. If that is the case he is far more likely to die by walking in front of a buss than from complications of AIDS even If he never ever takes one single anti-retro-viral. As to weather or not taking meds relieves stress over hiv in my view would have more to do with ones outlook. By the way just so you know. I jumped for joy when I finally converted. I faced the reality before I got myself infected on purpose. It's all a mater of perspective. The moral of the story is every ones reality is subjective & belongs to that person & that person alone. Extrapolations from your experience onto another s life runs the risk of total negation of self determination for everyone except yourself.

[seaguy]

I think what you said to him was the right thing it does seem like he is just avoiding the situation hoping it will just go away but we all know that unless he is really lucky its not going to go away. It is natural to want to help a friend in a situation like this but there is only so much one can do. In the end we all are responsible for our own health. Maybe get some literature for him or refer him to your doctor but I would not continue to bring it up and pressure him as he might just end up freezing you out. I hate to use the analogy of an alcoholic and how they sometimes have to hit rock bottom before they get sober but maybe it will take him having to fall ill from HIV before he realizes it is time to stop avoiding it and see a doctor to deal with the situation.

[VersatileBreeder]

To begin with you have no idea weather or not he might be a none progresser. Some one who has the crc5 mutation from one side of his parentage. If that is the case he is far more likely to die by walking in front of a buss than from complications of AIDS even If he never ever takes one single anti-retro-viral. As to weather or not taking meds relieves stress over hiv in my view would have more to do with ones outlook. By the way just so you know. I jumped for joy when I finally converted. I faced the reality before I got myself infected on purpose. It's all a mater of perspective. The moral of the story is every ones reality is subjective & belongs to that person & that person alone. Extrapolations from your experience onto another s life runs the risk of total negation of self determination for everyone except yourself.

open hole, I had a thought about him possibly being a long-term non-progressor. The odds of that are slim and he has no way of knowing unless he goes to get bloodwork done.

[rawTOP]

Sounds like he's a long-term non-progressor. He may be better off not taking meds, but he should be monitored since even long-term non-progressors do, usually, progress at some point. Another possibility is that he's not, genetically, a long-term non-progressor, but may have a really mild strain of HIV that doesn't progress very fast (or ever).

The trick is finding a doctor who would be comfortable with him not being on meds.

[VersatileBreeder]

I think what you said to him was the right thing it does seem like he is just avoiding the situation hoping it will just go away but we all know that unless he is really lucky its not going to go away. It is natural to want to help a friend in a situation like this but there is only so much one can do. In the end we all are responsible for our own health. Maybe get some literature for him or refer him to your doctor but I would not continue to bring it up and pressure him as he might just end up freezing you out. I hate to use the analogy of an alcoholic and how they sometimes have to hit rock bottom before they get sober but maybe it will take him having to fall ill from HIV before he realizes it is time to stop avoiding it and see a doctor to deal with the situation.

I think the main problem with him is he seems to be incredibly uneducated about HIV. I got that feeling when I talked to him about some things and he didn't even know what PrEP was. He thought that guys who have HIV and maybe advanced to AIDS, who may be gaunt and skinny were like that because of their meds. He thought meds would give him that wasted away look. I'm trying to make him realize that if he doesn't deal with this soon, he is going to suffer a demise that will be way worse than he knows. But you are right, there is only so much a person can do/say.

[cam1972]

Fear can be paralyzing. Overwhelming the mind to the point of not being rational. After letting it build up this long, it won't be easy to get him to see a doctor. Open hole is right. The reaction is different for everyone. However, unlike open hole, your friend doesn't sound like he danced a jig when diagnosed. I'm with the others on here. Don't push it. Just stand by him, drop in the conversation how well meds are working for you occasionally and hope for the best.

[barefootbob]

He could be similar to me not necessarily suicidal but not giving a shit about living or dying. He could be ambivalent about life.

[wood]

I ddont know how old he is, but its pretty stupid, and scary. he could be really sick and not know it. Additionally if he is on BBRT he has probably infected more than a few people, even if hes a bottom, Thats awful IMO. I wrote this a while back on another post in the fall of last year.

I had a friend die this past summer. He was 27. He was probably infected around 20, and NEVER got treatment. For the last three years of his life he was always sick, and tired. Eventually in mid april his mom came to his apartment and pulled him out. 6' guy weighed about 110lbs. It was then that they discovered he also had a massive brain tumor probably brought out by his almost complete lack of an immune system. He was dead by July.

I'm sorry but who in their right mind wants to go that way!?!?!?!

There is a chance he is a LTNP, but those are rare. Some people just survive longer with minimal treatment. Additionally while he says he "hasnt got anymore sick" Thats often false. People on a slow decline regardless of the condition often don't notice, or make excuses for their condition without realizing how bad its got.

Unfortunately I don't have an answer for you. I would try and reason with him, and maybe ask about stuff he wants to do in the future. That way you can transition the conversation to getting healthy and hopefully not dying. Realistically after 12 years, he's probably pretty sick. Although some peoples decline is longer than others. Even at the height of the crisis, there were people that were likely infected in the late 70's who didn't get sick until the late 80's or 90's, which is actually when AIDS deaths peaked. That means a 10-15 year incubation timeframe.

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

All excellent points in thread above. Bottom line though it is his life to live or lose...

That said, and without making this the definition of your friendship, you can share your own experience now and as it evolves. Then just continue the friendship. The hard sell of what you think he needs to do won't work. Making it all you talk about will push him away. By listening now with a different perspective you can observe if and what other areas of his life he also practices avoidance. Then, again without making this the definition of your friendship, you can ask pointed questions such as "how does avoiding xyz help"?

[cam1972]

I ddont know how old he is, but its pretty stupid, and scary. he could be really sick and not know it. Additionally if he is on BBRT he has probably infected more than a few people, even if hes a bottom

Had not really considered this thought. It's a very good point. If he is still sexually active, then he needs to give thought to those he is having sex with if not for himself.

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

Ideally he would. But he has no concerns for himself it seems, and would be surprised if he cared about to risks to others. He could be a poster boy for why neg guys should be on PrEP.

[sites5]

Sounds like he's a long-term non-progressor. He may be better off not taking meds, but he should be monitored since even long-term non-progressors do, usually, progress at some point. Another possibility is that he's not, genetically, a long-term non-progressor, but may have a really mild strain of HIV that doesn't progress very fast (or ever).

The trick is finding a doctor who would be comfortable with him not being on meds.

All perfectly possible, but so is the possibility that he is flirting with losing a huge chunk of his life expectancy. Not getting medical attention is just playing dice with forty years of life. And you can roll a one as well as a six.

[VersatileBreeder]

I ddont know how old he is, but its pretty stupid, and scary. he could be really sick and not know it. Additionally if he is on BBRT he has probably infected more than a few people, even if hes a bottom, Thats awful IMO. I wrote this a while back on another post in the fall of last year.

There is a chance he is a LTNP, but those are rare. Some people just survive longer with minimal treatment. Additionally while he says he "hasnt got anymore sick" Thats often false. People on a slow decline regardless of the condition often don't notice, or make excuses for their condition without realizing how bad its got.

Unfortunately I don't have an answer for you. I would try and reason with him, and maybe ask about stuff he wants to do in the future. That way you can transition the conversation to getting healthy and hopefully not dying. Realistically after 12 years, he's probably pretty sick. Although some peoples decline is longer than others. Even at the height of the crisis, there were people that were likely infected in the late 70's who didn't get sick until the late 80's or 90's, which is actually when AIDS deaths peaked. That means a 10-15 year incubation timeframe.

wood, great points. From what he's told me, he gets fucked A LOT. He's your typical one-stop uncomplicated cumdump bottom. I am not looking to accuse him of anything, but it would come as no surprise to me if he claims to be "clean" when he gets hit up by the NEG/DDF/UB2 crowd, which I'm sure he does. If he is not going to have any regard for his own body and health, how much regard is he going to have for the health of others?

I'm not looking to push the issue with him, but it's just sad to see someone throw their life and health down the drain like that when he has plenty of opportunity to be healthy and save himself.