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The honest, unvarnished truth, please: is it worth the time, trouble, and expense for a pig to visit SF anymore?


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7 hours ago, Close2MyBro said:

It's all "wash". The homeless in California is out of control and growing every day. Crime is not going down, it is going up, but due to recent law changes by the ruling party that now makes it "legal" to steal up to $900 worth of stuff, the crime is not being reported or recorded. Stores like Target are closing early to try to minimize the widespread theft. California used to be a great place to live, now it has turned into a great place to flee.

 

7 hours ago, Close2MyBro said:

It's all "wash". The homeless in California is out of control and growing every day. Crime is not going down, it is going up, but due to recent law changes by the ruling party that now makes it "legal" to steal up to $900 worth of stuff, the crime is not being reported or recorded. Stores like Target are closing early to try to minimize the widespread theft. California used to be a great place to live, now it has turned into a great place to flee.

Prop 47 is what made it "legal" to steal up to $950 worth of merchandise then in 2020 they rejected Prop 20 which would have fixed it.  San Franciscans killed San Francisco not any political party. 

 

Edited by Mulehole
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California is done, especially San Francisco. Older gays I talk to say the pigginess of the 90s is gone, and you can really blame Gen X and the Millennialls. 

As far as being “gentrified,” San Fransisco has always been a somewhat segregated city. Except now, it is the techies pushing out the middle-class gays. These middle class gays are being forced to surrounding cities like Oakland, Sacramento and San Jose. What’s left is a city of high earners or homeless. You can’t walk along Market Street without some homeless guy blocking an ATM smelling of urine.

How did gays start loosing their grip on SF? Just my opinion, this is the result of the gay community trying to be accepted by straight society. Instead of banning together trying to protect their neighborhoods, customs etc. (similar to Chinatown), they allowed clubs to be “inclusive” (infiltrated by straights) shunned bath house culture and spent less and less time networking and building communities and organizations with their gay brethren. And let’s not even discuss how they alienated instead of Allied with the black LGBT community with racist, elitist attitudes.


 

 

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5 hours ago, Mulehole said:

Prop 47 is what made it "legal" to steal up to $950 worth of merchandise then in 2020 they rejected Prop 20 which would have fixed it.  San Franciscans killed San Francisco not any political party.

Last time I checked, misdemeanors are not legal, permitted, penalty-free behavior. And why does San Francisco get the blame for a statewide proposition?

San Francisco has always had high rates of shoplifting, car break-ins, bike thefts, etc. These crimes are regrettable, but they occur in all high-profile world cities (except perhaps in Singapore, where socioeconomic status is homogeneous, especially compared to US cities, and even chewing gum is a crime — or in the Islamic world, where a person might be stoned, arbitrarily incarcerated, etc.).

I'm not convinced that running into homeless people and drug users on Market Street, or having Target close at 7 PM, completely negates the joys of visiting the Castro, sampling the numerous gay or gay-friendly restaurants, cafés, bars and clubs that remain in the City, and finding literally hundreds of other gay people within a 1-mile radius on Grindr (or 20 instant hookup ads at a time on BBRTS).

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3 hours ago, fskn said:

Last time I checked, misdemeanors are not legal, permitted, penalty-free behavior. And why does San Francisco get the blame for a statewide proposition?

San Francisco has always had high rates of shoplifting, car break-ins, bike thefts, etc. These crimes are regrettable, but they occur in all high-profile world cities (except perhaps in Singapore, where socioeconomic status is homogeneous, especially compared to US cities, and even chewing gum is a crime — or in the Islamic world, where a person might be stoned, arbitrarily incarcerated, etc.).

I'm not convinced that running into homeless people and drug users on Market Street, or having Target close at 7 PM, completely negates the joys of visiting the Castro, sampling the numerous gay or gay-friendly restaurants, cafés, bars and clubs that remain in the City, and finding literally hundreds of other gay people within a 1-mile radius on Grindr (or 20 instant hookup ads at a time on BBRTS).

Indeed. There is a huge difference between saying stealing less than $1,000 is a misdemeanor - that is, setting the felony threshold at $1,000 - and "making it legal to steal $950" (which is just a stupid, stupid take on the whole thing).

San Francisco, like all large US cities, has issues. Like the top-tier cities (NYC, Boston, DC, Chicago) income inequality is a huge issue in particular, and that tends to breed other problems; when people can't afford to live near lower-income work locations, and can't commute 120 minutes each way to reach an affordable neighborhood, well, you end up with people living six to an apartment meant for 2, or people living in their cars during the week to avoid the commute back to that apartment 2 hours away. 

And honestly: even if gay life has diminished somewhat, for someone coming from (for instance) a small city in Georgia, or anywhere practically in Wyoming or North Dakota, San Francisco is STILL orders of magnitude more liberating than anything they've got back home. Stores and restaurants with rainbow flags in SF don't get firebombed.

And beyond the gay: SF is still one of the most incredible cities in the country, bar none. No, it may not be the ideal place to "pig out" any longer, if it ever was. But every gay person ought to visit, at least a few times. 

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10 hours ago, BlackDude said:

this is the result of the gay community trying to be accepted by straight society. Instead of banning together trying to protect their neighborhoods, customs etc. (similar to Chinatown), they allowed clubs to be “inclusive” (infiltrated by straights) shunned bath house culture and spent less and less time networking and building communities and organizations with their gay brethren. And let’s not even discuss how they alienated instead of Allied with the black LGBT community with racist, elitist attitudes.

Bingo.  Conformists.

Berlin is a melting pot of mixed income & a plethora of races & nationalities.  My hubby & I looked at how how to immigrate to Berlin after we visited (but we found out it'd be tough for our dogs to move with us.)  And those kinky Germans!  😄

Chicago shouldn't be on the same list as SF or NYC.  Yes it's a big city, and there are still bad spots on the South Side, but people aren't living 6 to a apartment.  Most of my friends there have 1 roommate.  Chicago is very affordable city to live in.  And piggy men!  

Edited by chipygmalion80
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