Life in prison for stealthing…

[PozBearWI]

36 minutes ago, BootmanLA said:

I agree that most of this post is not rational.

Part of the problem with it is that while rape is a sexual offense, it's also a crime of violence, and locking up someone's dick doesn't remove the capability to commit violence. That need will just find another means of expression. Thinking of rape in strictly sexual terms, and treating it with strictly sexual-control measures, doesn't do shit. You allude to this, but it's the central point: we should think of rape and similar offenses less in terms of "sex crime" and more in terms of "violent crime".

As for the 64-year old man: I get that this young guy killed himself, but it sounds to me like he had mental issues of his own. A rational, healthy-minded person doesn't die of suicide because he found out someone he thought was close to him was a fraud. And frankly, while 64-man posing as 20's-girl is kind of extreme, people pose as all sorts of things online all day long. Look at this site, where hundreds of guys jack off every day thinking about getting pozzed while not actually doing the first damned thing to actually GET pozzed.

Now, I will agree that deliberately giving someone HIV without his consent ought to be criminalized - at least, conceptually. It's no different than inflicting any other condition or disease on the person. But the problem is that it's very, very difficult to prove "deliberately". Aside from the credibility concerns of "I told him I was poz" vs "No he never said he was", you have credibility questions for the victim - could it have been someone else who gave it to him? Has he had unprotected sex with anyone else? If he says no, how do we know he's telling the truth? Not many guys who are out to stealth-infect others are likely to leave an auditable trail of messages wherein they confess what they're doing.

Separately, though, others have suggested that there are ways for people to protect themselves (ie PrEP). But the problems there are myriad: there's the education issue, where a huge portion of people in this country don't know what PrEP is. Many of those who do assume it's something only gay men need, and for them, only the slutty ones. PrEP needs to become both as non-toxic as a multivitamin and as widely used, so that anyone sexually active in the slightest can get on it.

The good thing about condoms - to the extent that we can say "good thing" about them - is that they were already widely recognized as useful for some purposes in the community at large when they began being promoted for safer sex. PrEP needs to be as ubiquitous as condoms before it can really be considered an adequate way for the average person (as opposed to the well-informed gay or bi man) to protect him/herself against HIV.

Well said.  WRT PrEP being as ubiquitous as condoms; i agree.  It should also be a ubiquitous as Flu Shots.  (injectable PrEP already exists although now available everywhere; WI being one of the "not available" states).  

We are still thinking of HIV in four decade old terms.  The better part of half a century has passed.  The effects of HIV now vs 40 years ago are vastly different.  It is really since then we've come to know HSV and HPV although we don't consider those people "poz" even though arguably they are.  People can vaccinate for HPV now and HSV is pretty controllable.  No one is serving a criminal conviction for those.  HIV belongs in those categories.

One of the things which fucks that up is that we still have massive expenses for treatments.  The beneficial treatments for diseases which came from what we learned about HIV and human immune system are also stupidly expensive.  PrEP is also expensive.  For me here in WI; at least for now; it's about even up cost to prevent or treat.  For me that argues that it makes little sense to start HIV treatment until I have HIV.  Context though gentlemen...  I am of an age where HIV would likely not make much of a difference in my longevity.  

[PozTalkAuthor]

it's very difficult to be 100 percent rational when violence is involved... Because there is not a universally recognized method to eradicate violence. Especially if the case is complex, as stealthing is. How could justice prove that this man, woman or whoever, consented to a protected-only sex encounter? With this awful "victim blaming" around, someone could always say "you should have thought before going out with that person"... 

About Prep, and generally sex-related prevention methods, yes, there's this distorted culture of "condom means promiscuous", "prep means promiscuous"... NOT AT All, they are methods to take .care of ourselves and, if possible, of the person next to us. 

Then, fantasy is fantasy! I'm the first to come here and get excited for poz stories. I'm the first to sext with contacts here and also be pleased if a person gets what they want, whatever it is. But stealthing turns me off, because it's violence! I'm disgusted by people wanting to decide for someone's life changing it permanently. We already have pleasant or unpleasant politicians who make decisions for our future regardless of what we think; we do not need someone taking control of our sexuality! We have every instrument to do this. Education should be encouraged! But the question remains: is lifelasting jail correct for a stealther? I'm not sure; as people continue doing it, it means it's not a very effective threat and maybe it can lead to a general HIV criminalization which might also ruin the "UEqualsU" campaign. In a misinformed and uneducated world, it's risky. Life long prison cannot be the answer for everything. The idea may be a comfort for our own fears, but a real offender never cares!