Not voting because Harris is a woman?

[BootmanLA]

13 hours ago, barefucker44 said:

It is unlikely to be an issue.  

That's exactly what everyone said about Roe. "It's settled law." "Kavanaugh promised Susan Collins he believed it was good law." "Gorsuch would never do that." And on and on, and then wham, that's exactly what they did.

Alito and Thomas have already said that (a) they believe Obergefell and Lawrence were wrongly decided, and (b) when the Court has made a mistake like that, it's better to overturn it than let it remain. Kavanaugh has followed their lead. Roberts and Barrett have both indicated a strong willingness to overturn precedents they consider wrongly decided. So, respectfully, I'll say "unlikely to be an issue" is complete bullshit. The votes are there; they're just waiting for the right case to come up.

[BootmanLA]

12 hours ago, backdoorjimmy said:

On top of that, there's the issue of democracy shaming. We all have the right to cast our ballot for the candidate of our choice. People who vote third party, and third party candidates, are often blamed for losses on either side. The fact of the matter is that candidates have to earn our votes, and if Harris, Trump or whoever else doesn't appeal to voters, it's their own fault.

I acknowledge that I'm approaching this issue as a white guy, so my perspective might not hold as much weight here. I'm voting for Harris because I think she's slightly less horrible than Donald Trump. But if the election weren't so close here in Virginia, I'd be writing in Cornell West as my pick.

Sure, "earn our votes", if you think the sole purpose of voting is to feel good about it. If you're going to practice electoral masturbation, at least admit that you don't give a fuck about the results as long as you feel your vote was "earned". I believe the point of voting is not to feel "wanted", not to feel my vote was "earned", but to produce the best outcome overall. It's why I voted to re-elect Clinton after he compromised on DOMA and Don't Ask, Don't Tell. I knew a President Dole wasn't going to be better on the issue, I knew that judges Clinton appointed would be more likely to overturn those laws as the abominations they were, and that even tiny, incremental progress is better than massive backsliding.

That said - yes, in a state where the race isn't close either way (say, California or Louisiana), third party voting is less of an issue. It not only doesn't affect the results, it CAN'T affect the results. On the other hand, there are a number of states (for instance, Ohio, Montana, Maryland) where there's a tight Senate race even though the state will probably go for a particular presidential candidate. People in THOSE states also need to pay close attention and, if they want any hope of a potential President Harris being able to fix anything, they need to vote to give her a Democratic Senate so that (for instance) the GOP doesn't simply block every judicial appointment she makes.

[BootmanLA]

28 minutes ago, Versholefun said:

People will not vote for Kamala because she’s not very bright, doesn’t have anything at all to do with being a woman. Kamala’s the wild girl you want to party with while President Trump is the mean son of a bitch that’s always got your back.

Right up until he stabs you in it. Trump has NEVER had anyone's back, including his own family's (he tried to steal control of his father's estate while the old man was still alive but suffering from dementia, and he cut off his own great-nephew's health insurance (the child has a genetic disorder requiring lifelong care) - in fact, Donald Trump told his nephew, the child's father, that it would be better for everyone if he just let the child die because it would be less costly on the family insurance policy.

Trump learned his "stab them in the back" routine from one of his attorneys, Roy Cohn (of the McCarthy red-baiting disgrace). Cohn, a closeted gay man, ended up dying of AIDS -  and Trump refused to help him in the slightest at the end because Cohn could no longer do anything for him. So much for 'always got your back'.

[BlueSaphir]

I don’t understand why some guys here want to vote for someone against their  desire to have fun with other guys. Don’t let a party dictate our future to make our lifestyle illegal, be labeled as unnatural, not mentally well. 

[backdoorjimmy]

8 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

Sure, "earn our votes", if you think the sole purpose of voting is to feel good about it. If you're going to practice electoral masturbation, at least admit that you don't give a fuck about the results as long as you feel your vote was "earned".

To be clear, I care a lot about the result. That's why I'm casting my ballot for Harris. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to want to give my vote to a candidate who's earned my vote. It's not that hard - medicare for all, which would be cheaper than the private healthcare system we have in place now, would be a great place to start. Increasing the federal minimum wage would be another layup. It hasn't moved since I was in elementary school, and I'm 25 now. Doing more to help the un-housed people in our nation find housing would be another way to earn my vote. None of those are unreasonable asks.

I know this thread isn't about those particular issues, but let's not pretend that Harris isn't unpalatable to a lot of people, especially progressives, solely because she's a woman. That's what Obama tried to do, and it was problematic. She's unpalatable because she's second in command of a highly unpopular administration and she's done almost nothing to distance herself from Biden and his policies. And I get it, she's in a tricky position, but it's her job to navigate this moment and convince voters that she's the right person for the job. It's not their job to turn out for her because she won't win without them.

 

8 hours ago, BootmanLA said:

I believe the point of voting is not to feel "wanted", not to feel my vote was "earned", but to produce the best outcome overall. It's why I voted to re-elect Clinton after he compromised on DOMA and Don't Ask, Don't Tell. I knew a President Dole wasn't going to be better on the issue, I knew that judges Clinton appointed would be more likely to overturn those laws as the abominations they were, and that even tiny, incremental progress is better than massive backsliding.

I think this highlights the problem with our two party system. We have other options (Green, Independent, Libertarian) but for some reason, the voters always default to the democrats or the republicans. The DNC and RNC are a perfect example of corporate capture - two non government organizations that are so ingrained in our political ethos that NOT voting for one or the other is seen as throwing your vote away. Or worse, handing the election to (insert candidate here) because you didn't vote for their opponent.

[BlackDude]

11 hours ago, topblkmale said:

 

@BlackDude

The Sandman came tap dancing to pull black men offstage.

And I'm not voting for the current VP minstrel show.

 

Yup. We are four years too early. What they thought they were going to do this election is use that same strategy: how do we get most loyal voter based to vote for us without actually having to do anything for my most loyal base? And why not? It’s worked for the last 50 years.

 

Then when 2028 came, they were gonna flip the bird to us and tell us sorry we don’t need black voters anymore. We have a new set of voters. They were finally going to be able to win elections without Black people. And we’re still not gonna do anything for you, except for now we don’t have to hide it. We’ll just say we have a new constituency.
 

Well,  turns out even a 5 to 10% drop and Black support means a loss for the Democrats. And if they lose this election, expect an avalanche of backlash “new voters“ in black districts. Now the strategy won’t work because unlike Black people who have been foolish, other voting blocks are split down the middle 50-50. They’re going to demand something.
 

so the Democratic Party can deflect and play all the games they want. They can’t win elections without us and if they think they’re going to that day is over.

 

 

[BlackDude]

5 hours ago, BlueSaphir said:

I don’t understand why some guys here want to vote for someone against their  desire to have fun with other guys. Don’t let a party dictate our future to make our lifestyle illegal, be labeled as unnatural, not mentally well. 

Unfortunately, black people don’t have the luxury to put their sexuality first, politics included Some do but they do it at their own peril. 

[NEDenver]

1 hour ago, BlackDude said:

Unfortunately, black people don’t have the luxury to put their sexuality first, politics included Some do but they do it at their own peril. 

Unless you’re worth well into 8 figures, there’s nothing ever in the Republican Party policies for you.  All of the housing crisis shit built for years under Trump because there’s been nothing to even approach a policy.  BBB would have helped you; the Green New Deal would have helped.  There was never going to be an infrastructure week, and no healthcare plan.  The GOP who get elected exist only to make the top tiny sliver richer.  Prices on everything are high because the people who get to set prices want them high.
 

Anyone not in the capitalist class, the people who actually own everything, we don’t matter, except as biological widgets who should get back to increasing shareholder value.  The motherfuckers are going to return us to the chaos from before the ACA, where the second your insurance company found out you got cancer, you got canceled.  They’re going to get rid of overtime.  Boss wants you to work more, you work more, no extra pay.  Unions gone, no more inconvenient strikes.  Total abortion ban and the maternal death rates soar.  The GOP doesn’t care.  Felonies for being gay.  They’re not being shy about telling us.

But sure.  Put something else first.  Vote for the party of leopards eating faces.  Just don’t cry when they come to eat your face.

[fuckholedc]

On 10/11/2024 at 10:50 AM, tallslenderguy said:

Obama suggests many Black Men are not voting because Harris is a woman? 

 

I'll have to read President Obama's statement.

 

However I have heard directly from some men who identify as straight (presumably) who also happen to identify as African-American that they are not voting for Harris because "Biden is just about more rights for Gays and higher prices".  I have not heard this from non-African-American males but generally I don't speak with many non-Gay males.  The men who I heard the quote above from were usually delivery people, so not people I work with.

The other thing is that far more people who would be identified as lower income, irrespective of race or ethnicity, would also support the statement that Biden's policies resulted in higher prices.  I work in an environment in the middle of a group of working class people who discuss this daily (I was in fact surprised that they mentioned this in front of me - that usually doesn't happen).

The perceived economic hardship problem is unaddressed by the D's generally, at least to the extent that it can make an impact on the minds of at least some working class people.  And homophobia is in fact also an aspect of support for Trump, even if Trump is not himself homophobic (although he's probably plastic enough for his supporters to mold his policies in a homophobic direction).

 

[nanana]

21 hours ago, alphatop32 said:

None of what you mention above (which is nothing but the copy paste of a bile vomit from the fake news media) is true.

Well said Alphatop32. I frequently find that liberal puppets are completely unaware of how bad their sources are and how easily they are manipulated. They typically don’t do a lot of primary research AND they immediately ask for sources because  they only believe in highly curated information without questioning the motives of those who are curating it. It’s as if a complex story is beyond their abilities. 

[nanana]

22 hours ago, NEDenver said:

Just curious, but where do you get your news

This is the typical opening salvo of people who let NPR and The New York Times do their thinking for them. Be careful, this sad minefield has been the excuse liberals use to stop thinking deeply, like a brain off switch. 

[alphatop32]

7 hours ago, BlackDude said:

Yup. We are four years too early. What they thought they were going to do this election is use that same strategy: how do we get most loyal voter based to vote for us without actually having to do anything for my most loyal base? And why not? It’s worked for the last 50 years.

 

Then when 2028 came, they were gonna flip the bird to us and tell us sorry we don’t need black voters anymore. We have a new set of voters. They were finally going to be able to win elections without Black people. And we’re still not gonna do anything for you, except for now we don’t have to hide it. We’ll just say we have a new constituency.
 

Well,  turns out even a 5 to 10% drop and Black support means a loss for the Democrats. And if they lose this election, expect an avalanche of backlash “new voters“ in black districts. Now the strategy won’t work because unlike Black people who have been foolish, other voting blocks are split down the middle 50-50. They’re going to demand something.
 

so the Democratic Party can deflect and play all the games they want. They can’t win elections without us and if they think they’re going to that day is over.

 

 

Well said my brothers @BlackDude and @nanana. The Black community is waking up to the damage caused by the Democrats in all the big cities they rule. They support lawlessness in the name of “social justice” and banish cops in our hood causing the loss of black lives. In Chicago, the token black Mayor abolished shotspotter, the technology to report live gunshot locations and crimes. And guess who that is affecting?!! The poor black and brown communities. The high inflation caused by inept Joe Biden has affected black families to put food on the table. Black employment was better under Trump. The “newly” arrived will replace black workers and black voters. That has been their real Project 2025! Killing black babies through abortions and replacing the living ones through mass illegal immigration. 

[alphatop32]

2 hours ago, nanana said:

This is the typical opening salvo of people who let NPR and The New York Times do their thinking for them. Be careful, this sad minefield has been the excuse liberals use to stop thinking deeply, like a brain off switch. 

The white educated liberals will quote New York Times and NPR which denied the Hunter Biden laptop story during the past election cycle and labeled everything as “conspiracy” theory. Their liberal media feeds the propaganda which denies vaccine injuries, censorship, inflation, warmongering in Ukraine, Israel and Palestine, fudged employment figures and on and on… Even their own RFK couldn’t stand their hypocrisy and endorsed Trump. Anyone who votes for this evil party needs to get their conscience checked! So white liberals please don’t tell a black man or woman what media they should consume and how they should think. We have that intellectual capacity to decide what is good for us from the evidence that is out there! 

[NEDenver]

51 minutes ago, alphatop32 said:

The white educated liberals will quote New York Times and NPR which denied the Hunter Biden laptop story during the past election cycle and labeled everything as “conspiracy” theory. Their liberal media feeds the propaganda which denies vaccine injuries, censorship, inflation, warmongering in Ukraine, Israel and Palestine, fudged employment figures and on and on… Even their own RFK couldn’t stand their hypocrisy and endorsed Trump. Anyone who votes for this evil party needs to get their conscience checked! So white liberals please don’t tell a black man or woman what media they should consume and how they should think. We have that intellectual capacity to decide what is good for us from the evidence that is out there! 

There was never a chain of custody for the supposed Hunter Biden laptop.  Still, it’s crazy to think Hunter got that job for any reason other than who his dad is.  Of course, the same is true of Ivanka, Don, Jr., and the likely dumbest person in the world Eric.  Remember when Trump was saying he didn’t even know anyone in Russia and didn’t care about Russia, and then Eric bleated out like the dimmest dim son ever, “Half of our business is with Russia?”  Good times.

Or remember when Bill Barr lied about the Mueller Report?  And how it said that Don, Jr. definitely coordinated with Russian agents, but probably couldn’t get charged with anything because he was too dumb to realize laws also applied to him, making him the grandest Affluenza case in history?  Or that Trump (Unindicted co-conspirator number 1) couldn’t be indicted because blah-blah no criminal proceedings against a sitting president, but that Congress had political options he assumed they’d take because he was naive enough to believe that Republicans care about anything besides tax cuts to billionaires.  
 

No?  Because you’re in a media bubble that wants law and order for poor black people, but definitely not for the rich.  And you just swallow that shit like a fetishist.  
 

But I get it.  Biden held inflation lower in the US than anywhere else in the world when businesses decided to make up for Covid by raising prices however high they wanted.  I mean, they could put direct price controls on prices, but there was largely no supply curve reason to raise prices, and a lot of goods where prices rose were inelastic (meaning price changes don’t affect demand—usually medicines, housing, gas, stuff like that), but price controls are too easily spun as communism because conservatives are basically reprogrammable meat puppets with minimal effort in media.

So vote for Trump.  Become illegal by virtue of existence.  Watch people die of treatable diseases because they can be dumped by insurance.  Watch people die because the medicines Biden has listed to be price negotiated go back to unregulated pricing like when diabetics died because insulin was priced out of reach.  It’s like conservatives can’t read or comprehend history, and it’s tribal virtue signaling to broadcast ignorance.  
 

You’re like drowning victims attacking the lifeguards.  Hopefully, the rest of us will be able to save your dumb asses again.

[alphatop32]

1 hour ago, NEDenver said:

There was never a chain of custody for the supposed Hunter Biden laptop.  Still, it’s crazy to think Hunter got that job for any reason other than who his dad is.  Of course, the same is true of Ivanka, Don, Jr., and the likely dumbest person in the world Eric.  Remember when Trump was saying he didn’t even know anyone in Russia and didn’t care about Russia, and then Eric bleated out like the dimmest dim son ever, “Half of our business is with Russia?”  Good times.

Or remember when Bill Barr lied about the Mueller Report?  And how it said that Don, Jr. definitely coordinated with Russian agents, but probably couldn’t get charged with anything because he was too dumb to realize laws also applied to him, making him the grandest Affluenza case in history?  Or that Trump (Unindicted co-conspirator number 1) couldn’t be indicted because blah-blah no criminal proceedings against a sitting president, but that Congress had political options he assumed they’d take because he was naive enough to believe that Republicans care about anything besides tax cuts to billionaires.  
 

No?  Because you’re in a media bubble that wants law and order for poor black people, but definitely not for the rich.  And you just swallow that shit like a fetishist.  
 

But I get it.  Biden held inflation lower in the US than anywhere else in the world when businesses decided to make up for Covid by raising prices however high they wanted.  I mean, they could put direct price controls on prices, but there was largely no supply curve reason to raise prices, and a lot of goods where prices rose were inelastic (meaning price changes don’t affect demand—usually medicines, housing, gas, stuff like that), but price controls are too easily spun as communism because conservatives are basically reprogrammable meat puppets with minimal effort in media.

So vote for Trump.  Become illegal by virtue of existence.  Watch people die of treatable diseases because they can be dumped by insurance.  Watch people die because the medicines Biden has listed to be price negotiated go back to unregulated pricing like when diabetics died because insulin was priced out of reach.  It’s like conservatives can’t read or comprehend history, and it’s tribal virtue signaling to broadcast ignorance.  
 

You’re like drowning victims attacking the lifeguards.  Hopefully, the rest of us will be able to save your dumb asses again.

How noble of you to save our “dumb asses again” Remind me the last time you and your party saved it since it was the Republicans who freed the slaves while the Democrats wanted to keep them in chains. 

Apparently, your limited income gay ass is so much smarter than the $9 billion Bill Ackman, a former Democrat who has quoted 33 beautiful reasons for NOT being a Democrat.. take some time to read and educate yourself.