Joe Biden was an absolute freaking *disaster* for gay ppl

[NWUSHorny]

MAGA of all stripes and beliefs always believe they are the "real" victims of suppression, and their dear leader loudly confirms their victim status multiple times a day.

[nanana]

5 hours ago, NWUSHorny said:

MAGA of all stripes and beliefs always believe they are the "real" victims of suppression, and their dear leader loudly confirms their victim status multiple times a day.

Hi NWUSHorny, 

just checking to see whether you are going to affirm your position that MAGA people of all stripes “always” believe they are the real victims…? Very respectfully this comes across as hyperbole. Perhaps you were triggered to caricature a class of people? 

peace,

NaNaNa

[SomewhereonNeptune]

8 hours ago, viking8x6 said:

We moderators do our best not to take sides, except of course in those cases where the "side" in question is contrary to the rules we're supposed to be enforcing. That said, we are fallible humans who have our cranky days and are doing this on a volunteer basis. It isn't clear, in this particular instance, whose side exactly you think the moderator is taking.

If you honestly think a moderator has made a mistake, you should private message that moderator to discuss it. You should not make snarky and/or oblique comments in the topics themselves. You also shouldn't assume you know whether someone else has received a warning or penalty for their post, and proceed to jump on their bandwagon.

And @viking8x6 is really pretty fair about moderating this stuff, and we've spoken about times when -- let's call it the 'non-left-view' -- tends to get short shrift from many, and in the past it's made me reluctant to enter into the Politics Forum here because often my views are about as popular as members of Congress, STIs, root-canal and cockroaches, not necessarily in that order. 

But because the non-left view does get criticized, I attempt to substantiate any point I make with a valid source or reference. Otherwise, I'm sure I'd get called out on anything that doesn't necessarily comport to much else than what might sound like a rant.

So...to quote someone else, "thank fuck" that we have Viking around here, he's actually pretty fair. And I'll be the first to admit that forums don't do well with self-policing since I do a similar task on a more "SFW" website where volunteers also do the job. Thanks, Viking.

[SomewhereonNeptune]

8 hours ago, NWUSHorny said:

MAGA of all stripes and beliefs always believe they are the "real" victims of suppression, and their dear leader loudly confirms their victim status multiple times a day.

Interesting strategy to reverse play the victim card. I'll need to keep that one in mind. 🤣
What I will not do is to attempt to victimize myself other than what the media has already chosen to manipulate. So let's examine how the media manipulates. 

It was the major media in the US that chose to call Abrego Garcia "Maryland Man", completely disavowing his association with MS-13. And he was ruled as deportable. Multiple times. So now the opposite party has chosen to embrace an MS-13 associate as the hill they'll die on because he wasn't given 'due process'. And that's certainly questionable because he had already been given that by Immigration Judges, and as a non-citizen, that is the due process to which he is entitled. Adding to that, we have activist judiciary who is demanding that he be returned, to which SCOTUS has replied that the administration should "facilitate" his return. As a citizen of El Salvador, his return is up to that sovereign nation, which has made it clear that they do not wish to release someone they also consider as a terrorist.

20 hours ago, Erik62 said:

Nowhere did I single Trump out as a sole beneficiary. Also ALL types of media news are showing interviews that discuss SPECIFIC TRUMP ACTIONS that are making life difficult, closure of social welfare offices, firing of legitimately employed workers (in Australian broadcasts at least). I also labelled the Republican "COHORT" or cabal making huge profits & I think arms dealers fall into that category & the label of slave labourers in inverted commas which infers very poor (slave comparative) wages being paid. Nowhere did I bring into the discussion a period of time other than what is in THE CURRENT TIME period & the roll-out of Tariffs created a world-wide financial panic which provided a very suspicious backdrop for insider trading. The only reason that Trumps complete packackage of economic & judicial policies is not being rolled back are the result of pushback from personell within the relevant areas (judges, educators) affected. 

  Please excuse my oft random point reply but not easy to think, formulate, type, correct mistakes & balance standing up in a crowded early peak hour train. Doing this has taken my mind of the actual journey 😱🤣🤣🤣. 

They have trains in Australia? Who knew? 🤣🤣 Kidding aside, I can only go by your words as verbatim, so when you say "slave labourers", that can be a sensitive topic to the US based on its history, flawed as it is. But I'll try to address your points head-to-head.

Yes, there have been furloughs of government workers. There have also been voluntary buyouts and much discussion over probationary workers losing their jobs. There are also a ton of workers who are likely not needed given our over bloated bureaucracy, so supposing that the US needs to bring spending back in line, we can either raise taxes on everyone (unpopular option for all and has detrimental impacts to the economy) or we can determine where we spend money and if that's what we want to do. Is it possible that some services are impacted? Sure, because anything is possible.

Re: Australian Broadcasters. I can only imagine this to be comparable to the US media, but all we seem to see of your media in the US are funny bits from Karl Stefanovic and your Today show, or Sky News if we are streaming. Of course the US is not your government, so not sure of the depth of your coverage of our news versus your local events. As for the tariffs, it was always the stated case that the administration wanted to discuss fairer trade terms, and since there was no motivation for other countries to do so, tariffs were a way to bring people to the table. The EU has already stated their willingness to talk about equal tariffs; The UK has already signed a deal that opens their markets and reduces tariffs on their cars -- great if I want a good deal on a Jaguar or Land Rover. Others including China are following suit. And the losses from the stock market here have largely been clawed back. So we could continue to have shitty trade deals, markets closed to our goods, or induce negotiations. 

As to the points on judicial policies, this presents a test of the powers of the Executive Branch and what it can or cannot do. I personally think that any executive order should be followed by the actual legislation to codify that action into law. That our congress has failed to do so is appalling and lazy, and I lose all respect for Congress...or at least I like them less than hemorrhoids. 🤣

I mentioned that there was no proof of insider trading, but since our Congress seems to engage in those bits, we can either all get the benefit of Nancy Pelosi's stock picks, or our Department of Justice should prosecute all insider trading to the fullest extent. Everyone. Regardless of party. Make them felons and unable to run for office. 

Re: Arms dealers. I won't deny that's what we are. Or the military industrial complex that benefits from it including a lot of HUGE companies. Nonetheless, I'd rather that our economy benefits from that versus that of China. You know, since you wanted to mention "slave labour". 🤣 Feel free to ask what the Uyghurs are doing these days. 🙂 

As to media bias, I thought I'd share this chart from All Sides, which independently audits and rates media coverage, and pretty fairly I'll add.

Thanks though for a decent tete-a-tete. Much enjoyed. Peace!

[nanana]

1 hour ago, SomewhereonNeptune said:

Yes, there have been furloughs of government workers.

I think the Clinton Administration still ranks higher in terms of the number of Feds furloughed. As a former Fed, I was sickened by the number of people who express sympathy for me rather than sympathy for the taxpayers that overpay for a 25th annual date with the government. 

 

1 hour ago, SomewhereonNeptune said:

As for the tariffs, it was always the stated case that the administration wanted to discuss fairer trade terms, and since there was no motivation for other countries to do so, tariffs were a way to bring people to the table.

I can definitely appreciate that other countries find Trump’s style a bit oafish, but I’m surprised they haven’t realized that he’s talking a mean game until he sees that they’re coming to the table. 

 

1 hour ago, SomewhereonNeptune said:

I lose all respect for Congress

Amen to that. If the President has determined that he can get results for less than Congress gave him, he’s behaving EXACTLY like a CEO of a Fortune 50 company. 

 

1 hour ago, SomewhereonNeptune said:

our Department of Justice should prosecute all insider trading to the fullest extent.

Huzzah! And love the chart!

[harrysmith25]

21 hours ago, NWUSHorny said:

MAGA of all stripes and beliefs always believe they are the "real" victims of suppression, and their dear leader loudly confirms their victim status multiple times a day.

"MAGA of all stripes and beliefs"...?

You used a word "MAGA" to make them sound like robots, which is what leftists use that word for

Then you immediately afterwards said they come in "all stripes"....?

Basically, you dont care if your own posts make sense, you're just someone who hangs around waiting for your next opportunity to say" heh! *pushes glasses up nose* You see the thing about these MAGAs is..."

There's dozens of people like you on the internet,you don't stand out at all.

Edited 7 hours ago by harrysmith25

[tallslenderguy]

On 5/9/2025 at 11:19 AM, nanana said:

I’m Episcopalian. We have high church and gay bishops to boot, though the Arch Bishop of Canterbury struggles to keep those of different moral views under one tent. 

Evidently,  all who espouse Christianity are not fundamentalist and anti gay

On 5/8/2025 at 3:22 AM, harrysmith25 said:

And of course, he promoted Islam which is our friend like Hep C is our friend. 

 

"A growing number of Islamic scholars, mainly in the West, have started re-examining Islamic teachings on same-sex relationships and whether a blanket condemnation of LGBTQ+ people is a misinterpretation. There are also growing opportunities for alternative and meaningful worship and community. Muslims for Progressive Values (MPV) has founded Unity Mosques in Atlanta, GA; Columbus, OH; and Los Angeles, CA. The Muslim Alliance for Sexual and Gender Diversity hosts a retreat for LGBTQ+ Muslims in Pennsylvania each year. MECCA Institute was recently established as an online school for the study of an inclusive theology of Islam for those seeking more expansive and inclusive interpretations of Islamic texts."

[think before following links] [think before following links] [think before following links] https://www.hrc.org/resources/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-islam

i think blanket, black or white "argument" ("absolute, freaking *disaster*") fail as "sound" because of the exceptions that can usually be found on both sides of an argument.  i think in an ideal debate, both sides are open to seeing the other point of view. i think we are often largely polarized to the degree that we lose the benefits of opposing view points.

i'm not a Biden fan. i'm less of a Trump fan. But neither Biden or Trump was/is in complete control, though Trump seems to be pushing hard on that with executive orders.  i think it would be easier to demonstrate that the Biden administration was more LGBQT friendly than the Trump administration currently is. Whether or not he is pandering, i don't know, but Trump has signed some distinctively anti LGBQT executive orders.  i didn't see any from Biden's hand?

Tourists flying in to Florida do not deal with Trump directly, but all those in charge set a tone. i think it would be easier to argue that it's easier for a government representative  to be anti foreigner in the Trump era than it would have been in the Biden era.

Look hard enough, and one can  find a picture of a young guy tripping on stairs. Can one "sound[ly] argue"  that's because of their 'young guy ways?' Or if a young man makes an absolutist argument using stereotypes based on age, it's because of pitiful young man ways? 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by tallslenderguy

[viking8x6]

14 hours ago, SomewhereonNeptune said:

.... So let's examine how the media manipulates. 

It was the major media in the US that chose to call Abrego Garcia "Maryland Man", completely disavowing his association with MS-13. And he was ruled as deportable. Multiple times. So now the opposite party has chosen to embrace an MS-13 associate as the hill they'll die on because he wasn't given 'due process'. And that's certainly questionable because he had already been given that by Immigration Judges, and as a non-citizen, that is the due process to which he is entitled. Adding to that, we have activist judiciary who is demanding that he be returned, to which SCOTUS has replied that the administration should "facilitate" his return. As a citizen of El Salvador, his return is up to that sovereign nation, which has made it clear that they do not wish to release someone they also consider as a terrorist.

Perhaps not the best example to choose here. The left-wing and right-wing media have each, in their own different ways, manipulated the facts (as best we can determine them) of this case.

I'll just point out here that his alleged association with MS-13 is just that, and that the immigration courts who gave him due process in 2019 ruled that he could not be deported back to El Salvador, an order the Trump administration chose to ignore.

https://www.factcheck.org/2025/04/due-process-and-the-abrego-garcia-case/

 

[harrysmith25]

54 minutes ago, tallslenderguy said:

"A growing number of Islamic scholars, mainly in the West, have started re-examining Islamic teachings on same-sex relationships and whether a blanket condemnation of LGBTQ+ people is a misinterpretation.

So you're now saying, I'll be allowed to have sex with another guy with a big beard dressed in a long white skirt?

And if we want alcohol to make it feel less shit, we'll have to go to Mars and hope there's some there?
(I don't actually believe your hysterically hilarious idea Islam is "changing" in any way, I just thought I'd reply anyway)

Edited 5 hours ago by harrysmith25

[NWUSHorny]

2 hours ago, harrysmith25 said:

MAGA of all stripes and beliefs"...?

You used a word "MAGA" to make them sound like robots, which is what leftists use that word for

Then you immediately afterwards said they come in "all stripes"....?

The MAGA isn't a monolith of agendas and beliefs, any more than any other past or present coalition. The 2 primary things that united them are 1) Donald Trump is the leader who is uniquely qualified to carry out their wishes; 2) All direct taxation is bad.

The 2nd one isn't quite universal, but the 1st is sacrosanct.

[harrysmith25]

6 minutes ago, NWUSHorny said:

The MAGA isn't a monolith of agendas and beliefs, any more than any other past or present coalition. The 2 primary things that united them are 1) Donald Trump is the leader who is uniquely qualified to carry out their wishes; 2) All direct taxation is bad.

The 2nd one isn't quite universal, but the 1st is sacrosanct.

Oh wow, you said the word "sacrosanct" so that means you're hoping I'll think you must be the head of Big WUurrds at the University of Oregon

Instead of some guy who contradicted himself within 2 or 3 words.

 

Have we got any historians here who can tell us how many times world peace has magically broken out cause someone finished their argument with "something... something not necessarily sacrosanct"

 

Quote

Donald Trump is the leader who is uniquely qualified to carry out their wishes

Very few or none of us had "Sucking Qatari balls" as our wishes.

The only plane we want to hear about in relation to that country, is one being piloted by an American, called the Enola gay II

Edited 5 hours ago by harrysmith25

[SomewhereonNeptune]

1 hour ago, viking8x6 said:

Perhaps not the best example to choose here. The left-wing and right-wing media have each, in their own different ways, manipulated the facts (as best we can determine them) of this case.

I'll just point out here that his alleged association with MS-13 is just that, and that the immigration courts who gave him due process in 2019 ruled that he could not be deported back to El Salvador, an order the Trump administration chose to ignore.

[think before following links] https://www.factcheck.org/2025/04/due-process-and-the-abrego-garcia-case/

Yep. Absolutely correct. Can't dispute that fact, they sent him to the wrong place. Here's the problem I see. Let's quote that song from the 90's: 

"you don't have to go home
But you can't stay here"

We can't keep him, and we can't send him to El Salvador where he is a citizen. So that alone shouldn't qualify him for a life in the US or automatic citizenship. But where do you send him? I cannot imagine any other country who'd accept an asylum claim from him based on his background. Before we accidentally set some type of precedent, that asylum claim needs to be scrutinized as once it's used as a basis for future claims, I don't doubt that others will try to use that to skirt the actual reason for leaving their home country. And the majority of asylum claims are already invalid, so are we just inviting more?

Asking the question more than having any answer because it ties everyone's hands.

[topblkmale]

15 hours ago, SomewhereonNeptune said:

 

It was the major media in the US that chose to call Abrego Garcia "Maryland Man", completely disavowing his association with MS-13. And he was ruled as deportable. Multiple times. So now the opposite party has chosen to embrace an MS-13 associate as the hill they'll die on because he wasn't given 'due process'. And that's certainly questionable because he had already been given that by Immigration Judges, and as a non-citizen, that is the due process to which he is entitled. Adding to that, we have activist judiciary who is demanding that he be returned, to which SCOTUS has replied that the administration should "facilitate" his return. As a citizen of El Salvador, his return is up to that sovereign nation, which has made it clear that they do not wish to release someone they also consider as a terrorist.

 

 

Kilmar Abrego Garcia is an illegal immigrant and suspected human trafficker. The media implied he was from Maryland.

As a non-US Citizen and non-US National, he cannot be a citizen of Maryland.

Unless one of the 14 departamentos of El Salvador is named 'Maryland'.

[think before following links] [think before following links] https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/04/18/dhs-releases-bombshell-investigative-report-kilmar-abrego-garcia-suspected-human

Edited 4 hours ago by topblkmale

[SomewhereonNeptune]

14 hours ago, nanana said:

I think the Clinton Administration still ranks higher in terms of the number of Feds furloughed. As a former Fed, I was sickened by the number of people who express sympathy for me rather than sympathy for the taxpayers that overpay for a 25th annual date with the government. 

So far, you're correct. But if the data is correct, 11 million illegally crossed the borders from 2020 to 2025, the number includes jumpers through the Southern border as well as visa overstays and those through other means including human trafficking. Obama did it too. Obama also deported more illegal aliens than several other recent Presidents and started the family separation protocols, but this isn't something that our American media likes to cover. (And yes, I can find the stats on both).

14 hours ago, nanana said:

I can definitely appreciate that other countries find Trump’s style a bit oafish, but I’m surprised they haven’t realized that he’s talking a mean game until he sees that they’re coming to the table. 

Amen to that. If the President has determined that he can get results for less than Congress gave him, he’s behaving EXACTLY like a CEO of a Fortune 50 company. 

Huzzah! And love the chart!

Not everyone in Europe is so anti-Trump. There was a political rally in Poland this past weekend where that was brought up in the same vein as border security and sovereignty, and the crowd seemed pretty keen on Trumps actions.

2 minutes ago, topblkmale said:

Kilmar Abrego Garcia is an illegal immigrant and suspected human trafficker. The media implied he was from Maryland.

As a non-US Citizen and non-US National, he cannot be a citizen of Maryland.

Unless one of the 14 departamentos of El Salvador is named 'Maryland'.

[think before following links] [think before following links] [think before following links] https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/04/18/dhs-releases-bombshell-investigative-report-kilmar-abrego-garcia-suspected-human

Agreed @topblkmale. That has been a key difference in how the media wants to 'frame' the matter. 'No one's really an illegal immigrant'. Despite the fact that the 1996 Immigration Reform Act (quick quiz: Under which administration was that passed? Answer: William Jefferson Clinton's) made clear the penalties for unlawful entry to the United States, as well as for hiring those who've crossed the border and employers who hire them. That act has not been repealed. 

It's really simple. And having familiarity through friends and family, I understand how broken the system is, and I'd love to see it fixed and streamlined. We need immigration, there is a process, and the right way is to get in line, not pay Cartel Coyotes to traffic you across the border for tens of thousands of dollars or a lifetime of enslavement. We need the labor participation for a lot of jobs that go unfilled, but skirting the laws ain't the way to do it.

[viking8x6]

34 minutes ago, SomewhereonNeptune said:

15 hours ago, nanana said:

I think the Clinton Administration still ranks higher in terms of the number of Feds furloughed. As a former Fed, I was sickened by the number of people who express sympathy for me rather than sympathy for the taxpayers that overpay for a 25th annual date with the government. 

So far, you're correct. But if the data is correct, 11 million illegally crossed the borders from 2020 to 2025, the number includes jumpers through the Southern border as well as visa overstays and those through other means including human trafficking. Obama did it too. Obama also deported more illegal aliens than several other recent Presidents and started the family separation protocols, but this isn't something that our American media likes to cover. (And yes, I can find the stats on both).

Errr.... and these are related... HOW?

This discussion, um, argument... free-for-all? ... appears to have jumped the shark. Given the original post, I suppose I should not be surprised by that.