For group sex, what is appropriate consent/etiquette/behavior?

[NWUSHorny]

An interesting discussion has arisen out of this thread 

about orgies and group sex. While I don't think the answer can or should be the same for every orgy or venue that hosts gay group sex should be the same, you simply cannot be inclusive for everyone and allow everyone to get what they need and are looking for.

For some background the discussion is in my opinion around free for all orgy action. Another poster and I live in very similar gay sex cultures currently, but my formative experiences were in a very different environment. That environment does still exist in some cities. I really miss certain behaviors where consent can generally be implied, that are generally culturally prohibited here in the PNW, but the point has been made that not all orgy goers will find that situation acceptable, and I generally agree with him that the behaviors discussed are never acceptable under the accepted rules of engagement anywhere in the PNW. So here are my questions:

How should you establish the rules of consent if you are hosting an orgy or operating a sex venue?

Is posting some general rules sufficient? In the other thread, I cited an orgy in LA that has rules posted outside their darkroom that advises those entering that their consent is implied. I also cited 4 sex clubs/bathhouses, half of which are no longer open where consent for that kind of behavior has long been implied, but was not or has not specifically been spelled out. While having a bottom suddenly impale himself on my dick did surprise and stun me the 1st time it happened to me, I actually enjoyed it and have sought out situatiins where it can happen ever since, where as other posters compared it to rape.

Is it necessary for every gay orgy sex venue to be inclusive and accepting of every gay interest and position? There are a lot of guys at orgies and at sex venues in the PNW that are pretty adamant that no one touch their cock either because they are a form of gay side or a committed total bottom, which in my opinion generally runs contrary to the basic concept of darkroom sex and quite a few other gay group sex situations. I know it isn't what I'm looking for in a free for all orgy, but everyone does have right to say no. I also think we should be able to find or create those situations with other like minded individuals.

Any other thoughts or ideas on how to attain consent for group free for all orgies or should they be prohibited entirely? 

 

[theplayerking]

For me, if you attend an orgy I assume you’ve given consent for light touching above the waist. It’s up to the other guy to accept that touch and take it further if he wants. If he doesn’t respond, I move onto the next guy. If I’m stroking, I’ve had guys grab my dick, which seems fair. I can push his hand away if I’m not interested. If a guy is getting fucked, I’ll go up to him and see if he wants to play with my cock as well.
 

Unless a guy is ass up and obviously taking all loads, I try and get some form of consent. Of course, the platonic ideal of an orgy is where everyone is vers I can both take and give dick in every hole available, but that’s very rare unless the guys already know each other.

[NWUSHorny]

2 hours ago, theplayerking said:

For me, if you attend an orgy I assume you’ve given consent for light touching above the waist. It’s up to the other guy to accept that touch and take it further if he wants. If he doesn’t respond, I move onto the next guy. If I’m stroking, I’ve had guys grab my dick, which seems fair. I can push his hand away if I’m not interested. If a guy is getting fucked, I’ll go up to him and see if he wants to play with my cock as well.
 

Unless a guy is ass up and obviously taking all loads, I try and get some form of consent. Of course, the platonic ideal of an orgy is where everyone is vers I can both take and give dick in every hole available, but that’s very rare unless the guys already know each other.

I mostly agree, however if you are waving a hard dick around in a darkroom or in rarer cases group play spaces, you can expect to get groped and if you don't stop them have your dick guided into their mouth or ass, I don't resist and usually wind up fucking them at least briefly. I have an orgy that I like to go to in LA that literally has a list of what you are consenting to posted outside their darkroom, one of the advisories is you are free to grope and will be groped, and one of the rules is no talking, so there is no verbal consent. The last line on the notice is "enjoy!", and I do whole heartedly every chance I get. 

I've never had a guy that I don't know at all walk up and shove his dick up my ass uninvited other than when I'm bent over or legs up in an group play space, but have had guys who I have gotten to know intimately that will walk up and shove their dick up my ass while I'm fucking or sucking another guy at an orgy. Rather than make a scene telling them NO I always make sure I thank them one way or another quite often by trading places with them every few minutes. There are some of us that really do enjoy both positions and flipping with the same guy.

None of those things happen very often at orgies or sex venues in the PNW, I won't force myself on anyone, but standing around for hours watching guys pose and get blue balls in a sexually charged atmosphere with absolutely no actual sex happening, which is the norm here, frustrates me and can see that it could drive some guys to push it to try to get something started more than is acceptable by local custom. Presenting as open as you possibly can, does present problems, the poster on the other thread gets guys trying to fuck themselves on him, which actually welcome. I get guys that either just start having what I consider pointless foreplay with me or try to insist we go somewhere more private to have foreplay or something even less than foreplay.

[theplayerking]

8 hours ago, NWUSHorny said:

I mostly agree, however if you are waving a hard dick around in a darkroom or in rarer cases group play spaces, you can expect to get groped and if you don't stop them have your dick guided into their mouth or ass, I don't resist and usually wind up fucking them at least briefly. I have an orgy that I like to go to in LA that literally has a list of what you are consenting to posted outside their darkroom, one of the advisories is you are free to grope and will be groped, and one of the rules is no talking, so there is no verbal consent. The last line on the notice is "enjoy!", and I do whole heartedly every chance I get. 

I've never had a guy that I don't know at all walk up and shove his dick up my ass uninvited other than when I'm bent over or legs up in an group play space, but have had guys who I have gotten to know intimately that will walk up and shove their dick up my ass while I'm fucking or sucking another guy at an orgy. Rather than make a scene telling them NO I always make sure I thank them one way or another quite often by trading places with them every few minutes. There are some of us that really do enjoy both positions and flipping with the same guy.

None of those things happen very often at orgies or sex venues in the PNW, I won't force myself on anyone, but standing around for hours watching guys pose and get blue balls in a sexually charged atmosphere with absolutely no actual sex happening, which is the norm here, frustrates me and can see that it could drive some guys to push it to try to get something started more than is acceptable by local custom. Presenting as open as you possibly can, does present problems, the poster on the other thread gets guys trying to fuck themselves on him, which actually welcome. I get guys that either just start having what I consider pointless foreplay with me or try to insist we go somewhere more private to have foreplay or something even less than foreplay.

The guys on this forum are an exception. Most gay men in the U.S., even the ones that go to bath houses and sex clubs, don’t like to have sex in front of other guys. There are certain venues that specialize in that, and certain guys that seek out that scene, but it’s far from universal. Personally, I think there’s nothing more liberating than a roomful of guys watching me fucking and getting fucked, but I know I’m not in the majority on that one.

Regarding etiquette, I think many of us fear rejection so it’s much easier to find a subtle way of gauging a guy‘s interest. If you drop to your knees and start sucking a guy, but he walks away, it can be hard on your ego. 

[NWUSHorny]

5 hours ago, theplayerking said:

The guys on this forum are an exception. Most gay men in the U.S., even the ones that go to bath houses and sex clubs, don’t like to have sex in front of other guys. There are certain venues that specialize in that, and certain guys that seek out that scene, but it’s far from universal. Personally, I think there’s nothing more liberating than a roomful of guys watching me fucking and getting fucked, but I know I’m not in the majority on that one.

Based on my personal experience is that it is somewhat regional, there are definitely places that couldn't support a sex club or bathhouse that is setup primarily for group sex, and other regions where they have multiple thriving venues for that very thing. The PNW is one of the regions where it doesn't happen, and I think it would be difficult to curate even a small group to have that kind of orgy on a regular basis. 

5 hours ago, theplayerking said:

Regarding etiquette, I think many of us fear rejection so it’s much easier to find a subtle way of gauging a guy‘s interest. If you drop to your knees and start sucking a guy, but he walks away, it can be hard on your ego. 

That is pretty much against local etiquette here. Even offering can be problematic here, there are a lot of "sides" that don't even do oral, plus a lot of committed bottoms that consider their dick to be off limits, both of which are likely to make a scene if you even offer.

[hntnhole]

23 hours ago, NWUSHorny said:

certain behaviors where consent can generally be implied

That phrase is the operative one, in that the host most likely cannot come up with every permutation of gay sex, and thus address each one prior to the event. 

Instead, parameters can be posted prior to the event regarding decent behavior towards others (meaning, respect for others, etc, etc,).  It could be sticky trying to get down in the weeds with explicit rules about this particular act or that.  The emphasis should be generalized, requiring respect for all, with the remedy being asked to leave.  I don't mean "formal" stuff -I mean basic human dignity.  Some guys just don't like X sexual act, and that's ok.  

I realize that not every guy has access to fuckjoints like Slammer - and hosts of group-sex events elsewhere are to be thanked heartily for their efforts.  But, talk is cheap - what counts is the behavioral limits being respected.  Just a handful of guys can wreck the whole endeavor for everyone else.  When the basic rules of human interaction are respected, let alone human sexual perversion, everyone wins.  Decency offered to strangers, the common "default" position at one time, seem to be in short supply in some places.  

Thus, the hosts - whether a fuckjoint or an individual or group pf fuckbuddies - need to convey the "limits" of the event, and get attendees to sign an "I agree" type of document before issuing the actual invitation (meaning, time/place, etc).   The operative phrase here, is "documented", as opposed to "implied".  

Edited 3 hours ago by hntnhole
phrasing

[NWUSHorny]

1 hour ago, hntnhole said:

I realize that not every guy has access to fuckjoints like Slammer - and hosts of group-sex events elsewhere are to be thanked heartily for their efforts.  But, talk is cheap - what counts is the behavioral limits being respected.  Just a handful of guys can wreck the whole endeavor for everyone else.  When the basic rules of human interaction are respected, let alone human sexual perversion, everyone wins.  Decency offered to strangers, the common "default" position at one time, seem to be in short supply in some places.  

Thus, the hosts - whether a fuckjoint or an individual or group pf fuckbuddies - need to convey the "limits" of the event, and get attendees to sign an "I agree" type of document before issuing the actual invitation (meaning, time/place, etc).   The operative phrase here, is "documented", as opposed to "implied".  

I'm not aware of any detailed agreement on what is explicitly allowed at Slammer's other locations, especially with regard to what actually is happening in the darkrooms. The issue in the other thread was that a lot of men aren't comfortable with what does go on in those darkrooms and aren't welcome because of it. Which brings up the regional aspect, the handsy behavior that is inherent in darkrooms isn't generally acceptable in the PNW, and I can vouch that when Hawks tried having a darkroom in Portland it definitely led to both confrontations and preemptively and repeatedly announcing loud enough for the entire fuckjoint to hear "I DON'T FUCK" when entering the darkroom, it quickly becomes an environment where no one fucks. I actually like what my favorite orgy venue in LA has posted outside of their darkroom, something to the effect of, you are free to grope, you will be groped, no lights, no talking and enjoy! I don't think something like that would fly in the PNW. The space is only big enough to accommodate around a dozen guys, but someone like me I can count on walking out with empty balls and a cummy hole if I spend more than 15 minutes in there. The darkrooms and other group play areas at Slammer LA, and Club 541 aren't quite as good but they are close.

Edited 1 hour ago by NWUSHorny