rawTOP

Good idea. I'll move this thread and some others into their own area.

LoadingDock.com has been registered since 1997. That would result in lots of spam. Plus on a hookup site you want to know the person is genuine in some way - validating an email address seems like a small step. Good point. Which is why eventually there will be some form of paid membership. With all mobile devices you can query the device for the lat/long. In the browser this pops up an alert something like "Would you like to share your location with this site?" Saying yes could be required to use the site. Curiously the same code can be run on a laptop and it's spooky how accurate the results are even though the laptop doesn't have a GPS chip. But I can always fall back to a geoIP look up against a database like I do here on the member map page. Yeah, I know, but apps start at around $100K - at least for decent ones. I'll check that site out. Thanks. Yes. Covered in the first post in this thread - Breeding Zone has too narrow an audience. Registered since 1999.

I'm on PrEP. (BTW, notice the proper capitalization). My suggestion is to first get a DNA analysis to figure out if you're immune or resistant to HIV. If you're immune then there's no point. If you're resistant then it makes the need for PrEP less urgent. The DNA analysis can also tell you whether you're likely to be an "HIV Controller" (aka long-term non-progressor). If you're a controller then your body can naturally keep your viral load load low and being poz is far less scary. I got my DNA analysis at 23AndMe.com - they do a good job of showing that and far more information to you. I doubt a test at a regular lab would be as informative (though insurance may cover it). And BTW, please follow the link rather than typing in the URL - I'll get credit for referring you that way. And just to clear up one item - BearBandit is wrong - you don't have to take the meds within an hour of when you took them the prior day. The ingredients in Truvada have rather long half-lives and unlike poz guys you don't have HIV in your system - so you don't have to be so consistent. Though you do need to take the meds every day - it's the only way they're somewhat sure the PrEP will be effective - though they're doing studies to see if lower doses or "disco dosing" can work (taking it right before sex and for a few days after). I suspect your immune or resistant. Figure that out first and then use that information to figure out how much risk you're taking. If you're constantly taking anonymous loads and you're not resistant, then I would say go on PrEP.

I hear you. I'm one of the few people who have enough traffic to make a decent shot at it. But if it's lame it will fail. I see my main competitor as BarebackRT. I'm not knocking what they've accomplished, but they could use some competition - it's not good for the bb community that there's only one good hookup site. I told PigMaster years ago I was thinking of this - so it won't be a surprise to them (though my approach has changed since then). Here's how I think I'll be better… #1 all of the core features on the site will be completely free. There may be an inexpensive paid option at some point, but it will be for features that aren't critical. For years now I've seen how I'm just better at making money off banner ads (etc) than the guys at BBRT. I could go into details, but that's not really the point here. The point is, I'll have less need for a paid membership because I can get revenue in other ways. #2 it will be social - which will make it different than 95% of the gay hookup sites out there (not just BBRT). #3 I want to make the mobile version significantly better than BBRT's mobile site. I get really frustrated when I try to use BBRT's mobile site. I'm guessing you guys do too. #4 I have a plan to get traffic from other webmasters that have significant bareback traffic. I know who they are and I'll approach them privately. That means I won't just be relying on my own name. The rawTOP branding on the site will be much more subtle than it is here. That's not a competitive advantage, but it is one of my formulas for success.

Good thinking… And a more generic name will be more inclusive. Ah, yes, and important point I forgot to mention… My goal is to have a revenue model similar to Adam4Adam - so primarily ad-based. There will be a premium membership available that will give you bigger friends lists (or multiple friends lists), etc. But the site will be fully functional for free members. One caveat on that, however… In another thread I talked about how revenue from porn is slowly drying up as fewer people pay for porn. If it dries up to the point where an ad-based model won't work then I may need to explore additional membership fees. But I'll keep it as free and functional as I can for as long as possible. I'll probably also comp people who were early adopters of the site so the first 10,000 or 20,000 members will be free for life - at least for core site functionality.

As I mentioned in another thread, I'm thinking of starting a bareback hookup site for a few years now. Initially I had thought it would be best to add hookup features to Breeding Zone, but GermanFucker pointed out that this audience is rather extreme and hence pretty limited. For a hookup site to succeed it needs a broader audience. Objective #1 then is to appeal to a wide audience. The more people I can get on the site the better it will do. The only limitation will be that the guys actually bareback - guys who just want to suck cock, etc. will be discouraged from joining. Objective #2 is that it be social. I want it to be about more than hooking up. So a lot of the features you find on here will be on the hookup site - forums and/or blogs, groups, posting comments on people's profile pages, etc. I'd like to also have it incorporate publicly accessible data from other sources (Blogspot blogs, Twitter, etc.) into the user's profile page so people can get a better sense of who you are. I want the community aspect to be what differentiates it from the other hookup sites. It will also give people something to do if there aren't guys near them to hookup with (if the site hasn't reached critical mass in their area). Objective #3 is that it be mobile friendly. This is complicated greatly by Apple's adult-hostile rules for apps. So, unfortunately I don't think it makes sense to do a proper "app" - instead I think the best that can be done is to make sure the web pages are mobile-friendly (i.e. easy to use on mobile devices). But I'll be losing out on things like push notifications - which I don't like. The first question then is what to name it. The name it critical in branding the site - it needs to have broad appeal and imply the social nature of the site. I own BBFuckClub.com / BarebackFuckClub.com but my worry with those names is that "club" might imply poz and turn off neg guys. I mean I have a "joined the club" section here for guys to let others know they've converted. But on the plus side "club" does sound social. I also own BBBuds.com / BarebackBuds.com. Those sound friendly, and BBBuds is nice and short (which helps when you're typing it in - especially on mobile). But my worry with those is that "buds" may sound dated in 5 or 10 years. And I own BBFuckBuds.com / BarebackFuckBuds.com which makes the fuck part crystal clear, but it has the same issues as BBBuds - the "buds" reference may sound dated in a few years. Can anyone think up a better name? There has to be a better name available. And any general thoughts about the site and/or my strategy/objectives?

The doctor's job is to be there for him. Period. It's not about the doctor, it's about the patient. The doctor can be unequivocal in his assessment, but cutting off care is a step too far.

Since the doctor isn't emphatic, I say obey your master. But when the doctor is emphatic, obey the doctor (or get a 2nd opinion).

When I wanted to go off Dilantin I cared more about my health than my doctor did. When Spencer Cox went off his meds he probably needed to talk to a shrink - pushing someone like that out of the medical care system can kill them. I had an NP tell me "well, if you don't care about your health, why should I?" simply because I liked to be a bareback top and I'm neg. It was a considered, well-researched decision on my part. There's more to my life than my health. I made a decision and it wasn't very professional of her to pass judgement once I made it clear it was a conscious choice on my part that had a lot of thought go into it. So I reject the argument that the patient cares less about themselves than the doctor - at least in most cases.

I gotta disagree for several reasons. First the most personal - I had a "top" neurologist (chair of neurology at Memorial Sloan Kettering - one of the top cancer hospitals in the world) tell me that if I wanted to go off Dilantin (an anti-seizure drug) I needed to find another doctor. That was just a dangerous thing to tell me. If you stop taking Dilantin suddenly it can cause a seizure even if you don't have seizures. I'd gone off it previously and took myself off it over a number of months. During that time there were moments where I nearly blacked out. She had a duty of care to me that she failed to act on. She didn't even have the talk with me about how to go off Dilantin safely. And on top of everything else she was wrong. I knew my body better than she did. She had the results of two biopsies and refused to believe the results - she was treating me for something I didn't have. She would have learned something if she hadn't turned me away. But she thought she was better than that. I had insulted her pride simply by asking to go off meds. Her pride shouldn't have been a factor in my care. In this particular case the question the doctor should have asked is "why?". His patient may need psychological help. Take Spencer Cox. The last thing someone like that needs is "tough love" or "laying down the law". Again, it sounds like an asshole doctor who cares more about his pride than his patients' health. The correct response would have been "I'll continue to see you - but only if you see a shrink." IMHO, he failed in his duty of care to his patient. Patients have the right to refuse treatment - doing so doesn't end the doctor's responsibilities to the patient.

I used to be in pharmaceutical marketing. We'd look for "thought leaders" who could influence other doctors. We then contacted the thought leaders, took them to very expensive resorts where they had to listen to the pharma guys talk before they could go out and play golf / ski / etc. Unlike educational programs these pitches did not have to be balanced - they were only what the pharma company wanted doctors to hear. The other side-effect was that many of the doctors would feel like they owed the pharma company for a free vacation. Then we'd send those thought leaders out to convince other doctors about how great it was to prescribe the pharma company's drugs. It doesn't surprise me one bit that your doctor is pushing you to take meds when you don't actually seem to need them. Take a look at his research - I bet it's all paid for by pharma companies, and I bet he goes on those free vacations pretty regularly. After my lover died in early '95 his social worker and I went out for lunch. She made a comment which I'll never forget - "Dr. G. is great and everyone respects him and he's done all sorts of research, etc. - but it seems like all his patients die." On a more personal level, I've had the chair of neurologyand the chief of neurosurgery at Memorial Sloan Kettering as my doctors before and it was some of the worst care I've ever received - they did a completely unnecessary biopsy of my brain and demanded I stay on meds I didn't need despite the fact that I was having side effects. I agree - find a good doctor. But personally I think "top doctors" are dangerous. They get ideas in their head and want all their patients to conform to those ideas - they often don't treat the individual or think outside the box. These days I prefer the highly competent, smart guy who toils in obscurity.

I've got some scenes with Jan Losch on my porn blog.

My best friend is who runs rawTOP.tv. I'll talk to him about how far I can push the poz thing. There's a difference between "legal" and what Visa allows. Visa is far more conservative than the law. Visa won't let you show drug use. Legally the consent forms are invalid if the person is high, drunk, etc. - even if they re-consent after the fact. There's nothing stopping an amateur from uploading it. But a studio isn't supposed to be involved in stuff like that. Because it will take Visa out of the equation Bitcoin is going to change things (when it matures). For example I could start up a Bitcoin-only site where amateurs upload videos and I'd pay them via Bitcoin, and users pay via Bitcoin to see the full version of the video. But even in a scenario like that I'd have to see what liabilities I'd have if the performers were high, etc. But I think a lot of the liability could be offloaded to the amateur producers. I don't have what it takes to compete with the big boys, but I think I do have what I need to compete in bareback and with bareback going mainstream that could become pretty big. Yes, you can find bareback on the major sites, but the beauty of a bareback site is you don't need to negotiate condom use. If I'm as successful as BBRT I'll be happy. My boyfriend and I sat down last night to talk strategy. The conclusion is I don't have the money to do something really big. There's something big I'd really like to do, but it would take a lot of money that I just don't have. So the strategy needs to be incremental. I'm not positioned properly to do hunks & studs, but I need to diversify in bareback and a hookup site is the next step. Yet GermanFucker is right - BZ is too "dark" to be broadly expanded - a hookup site should be lighter and more welcoming to average guys. And I will implement my scraper tubes as well. They should have been done years ago, but better late than never - they'll largely run on autopilot anyway.

Just did a bit more research. Bitcoin isn't quite "there" yet for adult, but I think it will be in the next year. The risk is that many of the TOS's have ambiguous language when it comes to adult activities. Which means the company could cancel your account and keep the balance in your account. I've seen that happen before and almost lost money that way. Until it's a sure thing I'll stay away.

coyotesmiles - So you're calling me a liar about credit card processing for adult content? You've only done 6 posts and 3 of them are in this thread - arguing with the site owner. Not a good way to start. My best friend just got his accounts closed by Chase for sending wire transfers to Manwin - the owner of XTube/GayTube/Tube8/YouPorn/etc. - one of the biggest companies in porn. He had a good track record with Chase for 20 years and over $800K in his accounts for many months now. All he did was send a wire transfer to a company they didn't like and 20 years of a banking relationship is up in smoke. Financial institutions are very weird when it comes to porn. It's really easy to get badly burned. I am conservative when it comes to business and I try not to do things that could come back to bit me in the ass. It's the reason why I didn't get into tube sites early on - there were too many producers suing tube site owners. Trust me, using Bitcoin will bite me in the ass. The rules for adult are set by Visa. I know what they are and who works with adult - there aren't that many options, trust me. 99% of what you just said didn't contribute in a meaningful way to this thread. I'm not going to make a meaningful change in my business by having something that lets you find more internal cumshots. That's looking at the tree, not the forest. If you do one more long argumentative rant I'll ban you for a month.

Like this site? Want to help support it at no cost to you? If you like this site, one way you can help support it is to click on links on this site before buying porn site memberships. When you do that we get a cut of what you pay the site. With that money we can add new features, etc. It doesn't cost you anything - you still pay the same amount you would normally, but it helps the site by bringing money in. With fewer people buying porn these days this is more important now than ever. There a lot of sites where buying a membership can help Breeding Zone (not all of them are bareback sites). If there's one that's not on the list that you like, just let me know and I'll add it (if possible). THE CURRENT TOP BAREBACK SITES... 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My boyfriend and I used to talk biz strategy a lot more. Then we got distracted by other things. So tonight we're going out to eat in Chinatown and talk strategy. Out of that should some something like the mission statement you talk about. Just reassure people - Breeding Zone will continue to cater to it's current clientele. There may be changes, but after your earlier comments it just makes sense to not try to make this site appeal to a broader audience. But I've been wanting a hookup site for a while now - BarebackRT needs a run for their money. Even sites like Adam4Adam are very old school in their approach. I spent much of this morning looking at "dating scripts" (software). I think I found one I like. It's highly customizable so I can add in the things gay guys expect but it has things like games, and classifieds, forums, groups, and blogs that you don't find on most gay sites. It'll be a good place to start. I bought the domain for it a while back - BBFuckClub.com (or BarebackFuckClub.com) - so the only caveat is that the guys who join have to be into bareback. There is a mobile version of the site - so hopefully it'll appeal to the tweens. Basically it'll be focused on the broader bareback community - HIV fetish and chem sex will be censored (people will be told to come here for that).

There are a number of variables. One is the number of visitors ("traffic") which goes to your comment that more people should participate on Raunchy Fuckers. Another is porn buyers and how much they buy and which types of sites attract them. Another is getting into the game early before the field gets crowded. Another is the size of your niche. I met one of the primary owners of Manhunt in April. He was shocked anyone focused on would have a bareback hookup site - his comment was "are there that many poz guys to make that business model viable?" And he's not even talking about sub-niches within bareback. (Mind you he's probably in his 70s and a bit out of touch - he's the guy who gave to John McCain in the '08 election). WolfJD manages Raunchy Fuckers for me. Contact him directly if you need help with anything.

I'll start by saying I misread your first comment - missed the fact that you were talking about Raunchy Fuckers. But you're looking at the trees, not the forest. This is a high level discussion. GermanFucker got it right when he said that the "dark" side of bareback is a limited market, and the over-arching issue here is that fewer people are paying for porn. Making it easier for a small group of people to find something specific on a free site isn't a business strategy - that's a site feature. And just so you know, there is a page on Raunchy Fuckers for poz talk: http://www.raunchyfuckers.com/search/poz-talk/page1.html If you find other videos on there that should have that tag, let us know. And feel free to upload amateur stuff with poz talk in it. If you tag your videos with 'poz talk' they'll show up on that page. So what you originally asked for already exists. A few things you need to know... There won't ever be payments on Raunchy Fuckers - there can't be - no biller will touch the site unless every video on the site is completely documented and legal. Because Raunchy Fuckers has amateur content on it it's not eligible for payments. When you see "Join" buttons on sites with amateur in almost all cases you're not actually joining that site, but another site with completely different (legal) content. They have to put the legal content on a completely different domain and they'll just have previews on the main domain. What you describe for payments is pretty much what I have on rawTOP.tv - you can sign up for free and then buy minutes for 15 cents. A 10 minute video would cost $1.50. A 20 minute video would cost $3. There are plans that bring that cost down substantially and you can do Download-To-Own for DVDs from major bareback studios for $15 or less (which is a damn good deal). Now, as far as the poz thing - most studios won't touch it. You just don't find poz talk in the videos from the major studios - or if you do it's really rare. And remember, I can't charge for amateur videos - 'cause the banks won't touch amateur. BUT, I have (just) started shooting some videos with poz talk. Mind you, I'm neg so it's fantasy, but I've found a bottom or two who like it when I say I'm about to poz them. Those videos will go up on rawTOP.tv when I get them edited. So bottom line - none of that is general business strategy, and what you talk about already exists or I'm already working on it. I need strategies that can appeal to broad groups of people.

I don't know what you mean. And how is that related to this discussion?

Funny you should contrast "lighter and fun" with "heavy, raunchy". I went to Fire Island a couple weeks ago and a woman I'd never met before told me I "have a strong energy". I've always been pretty serious - even as a kid. Light and fun are not words people would use to describe me. JUB has "light and fun" covered pretty well. But despite that their traffic has been going down. BUT your comments about this site make me think that it may not be good to turn this site into a hookup site. It may be better to start fresh. In a way this site has baggage that shouldn't be taken into a more general site - which I think is your point. I was half asleep when I responded to you before, but I've got a lot of thinking to do. Your comment that tubes are a mature market has hit home and is something I'll keep in the front of my mind. Yes, I need tubes, but I need to think what comes next.

I came to this conclusion as well - a couple years ago. Then got busy with renovating a house and didn't really implement a strategy basd on it. That's all quite true, but also quite expensive to implement. And then there's the risk that it won't work. I don't have a few hundred thousand laying around to implement what you're talking about and honestly I also don't understand the cam market as I don't cam myself, so I don't trust myself to do it right. Thanks for reminding me - I wanted to start making it so people didn't see the backroom or the groups section by default and they'd have to pay a nominal fee to get access. I really wanted to avoid having a paid hookup site - I wanted to be more like Adam4Adam than Manhunt. But if there aren't 3rd party sales, then that's impossible. All in all good comments though...

Since you talked so much about HotMalePix - let me explain a little... There are two sections of it… The first section at the top which are images scraped from Tumblr (in the future it may include images from other sources). There are no categories in this section - it's random. I didn't include the comments because so many of the comments are spammy. I mean comments are great when they're good, but I didn't want to include spam on the site (links to less reputable sites, etc.) The second section is everything below the first section - that's all the sponsor content I get for the sites I promote (and the ones I don't promote). That has as much detail as I've given it. It's not fully automated at this point - it's one of the long list of things I have to work on. When I have it fully automated it will update regularly. At the moment it's rather static. But yes, "who would pay for porn?" is the big question right now in porn. A lot of producers are hurting, others are cutting back. A few are doing well in part because they live within their means. As far as clothing items - Nasty Pig is somewhat of my role model - they're doing quite well right now. But they're largely things like jockstraps, which people can wear without others knowing - to get to your point. I think the key is to have some products which are "subtle".

Sometimes people like me get stuck doing what we do because it's what we've always done and it's worked for us in the past. But business climates change - especially in the porn world. This thread is here because my revenues are down slightly - and it's been like that for a few months now. I'm just wondering what you guys would advise in terms of things to change (or not change) in my business. First, let me give you some of what I know, and my thinking at the moment. First and foremost this site is important to me. Community is my future. I know that. You guys are great. That's something that's not going to change. If anything I need to figure out how to enhance it. For example I'd like to make this site into more of a hookup site, but that's far from simple or inexpensive. But what I'm really getting at here is the porn side of my business since that brings in revenue that supports sites like this one. One mistake I know I made was not starting a tube site YEARS ago. I was dumb. I know that. If I had started back then I'd be pretty big right now, but I didn't do it. I have a tube site now - Raunchy Fuckers - but it doesn't have nearly as much traffic as it would if I had started it years ago. Lesson learned. Growing that tube site is a priority for me, though it's harder now than it would have been even a year or two ago. Raunchy Fuckers is an extension of this site - it's got a similar personality and I encourage you guys to post on it. I've been thinking of starting up one or two "scraper tubes" - like M@acho Moe. (That name is banned here because the site has a history of having pirated porn on it - hence the @ in the name). Tube sites like that don't host their own video - they just show tube clips from bigger tube sites. They were considered "possibly illegal" until recent court cases clarified things (which is one reason I didn't start one). Now it's clear that if content is scraped the entire site needs to be automated. You can't mix automation and moderation. Hence Raunchy Fuckers will be the moderated tube site and I'll have one or two others that are automated - you won't be able to upload to the scraper tubes that I launch, etc. Getting traffic to those tube sites will be difficult, but I'm hoping they can find some traction. My biggest uncertainties are about porn blogging. "Back in the day" you'd hand-craft a porn blog post with care and people liked that and bought what you recommended (even the stuff you said was crap). Now with Tumblr you've got "micro-blogging". There's far less care put into each post. Quantity seems to be winning out over quality. So one of my questions is big site with tons of content, or smaller site with less content, but more editing? In other words - should I continue to put a lot of effort into my porn blogs? Admittedly, I've been neglecting them recently, but HungLatinDom is helping me fix that. I should mention that to try out the "big site with tons of content" idea I've launched HotMalePix.com - an image site that has over 150,000 images on it and it's growing by about 1,000 images a day. The challenge is getting it noticed. I mentioned Tumblr. I've got a Tumblr blog, but the problem is 1) it's not a great idea to invest a lot of time and money into someone else's platform - Tumblr has already closed down my blogs once - that's not the best business strategy, and 2) Tumblr doesn't like people to make money off their blogs. I can link from my Tumblr blog to one of my porn blogs, but even that has gotten difficult lately since you can't change "source" when you reblog something. So I'm ambivalent about Tumblr. There's a lot of potential customers/fans/members there, but going it's also sort of risky for someone like me to be on Tumblr since they could close my blog tomorrow and I'd have to start over. So next question is how important do you guys think it is for me to be on Tumblr in a major way? Then there's the whole social thing - Twitter, Facebook, Google+. Taking Twitter first - I put a lot of time into Twitter and probably don't see a big monetary return off it. It's good branding and over time gets more people to think about things like rawTOP and Breeding Zone, but it's not about making money in the short term. My big issue is not that I don't want to do Twitter, but that it takes time away from things like launching new tube sites. So next question is should I continue to do a lot on Twitter or spend that time on things like new tube sites? Facebook and Google+ can't have anything more than PG / PG-13 content. Doing a lot with them means focusing on "safe for work" type content - which isn't my core business. I know those are not a great place for me to spend my time. But at the end of the day what I really want to know is how have your (and your friends') porn consuming habits changed and what lessons should I be learning from those changes? More tubes and less blogs? More quantity, less quality? Or should I be learning that people don't pay for porn any more and I need to get away from being so dependent on porn? I'm bugging my boyfriend to help me get a t-shirt business off the ground this summer. And once that's going I'll probably add lube to the mix since I know of some (pretty decent) lube I can sell under my own brand. And of course, if I'm doing t-shirts then doing a hanky for barebackers who like to "flag" is simple enough. Are there other things I should be thinking about? If you were in my shoes what would you do differently? (Big strategy - not "you need to get the chat feature back on Breeding Zone".)

Very hot. Now you're his daddy as well as his big brother Next time you find yourself with used condoms around - use the cum for lube…