Brain&Brawn

It's not just Norton who refutes this. Historian Martin Duberman does as well:

I agree with you. That's a big part of why I think the assimilation strategy has limits at best. Someone made an ahistorical claim above. Speaking of ahistorical trends, isn't that what the attempt to imitate Cold War Amerika is? That whole middle class suburban lifestyle has been dying a slow death for decades now.

“…neither you nor I individually get to make that decision for all gay men as a whole.” Never have I once said anything about trying to make decisions for all Gay men. What leads you to make that assumption? “And, as someone who's been in and around this community for a few decades now, in a variety of different places, the trend seems unquestionably to be towards assimilation. That's not to say that plenty of gay guys don't want to live in or near their gay community, but they no longer have to. And many of them are choosing not to. And that's a valid choice.” Indeed. So are alternative choices. “Look, if you want to make your orientation the defining characteristic of your life, you're free to do that. Plenty of guys still do. But plenty of guys now find they can have their relationships and be out of the closet without having to do that anymore and so are choosing to do just that. There's nothing wrong with that choice.” Again, I never said otherwise. On the contrary, plenty of people tell me and others like myself who choose differently, that there is something wrong with our choices. “Nobody's "denouncing Gayness" when they choose to live a quiet life in the suburbs and maybe hit a bar once or twice a year. They're just opting out of the scene. Which is fine; it's not for everyone. There's no reason every gay guy has to act in a particular way or live in a particular place.” Isn’t that what your very lengthy critique of my preference for alternative choice does? In fact, it seems you have invested considerable time in denouncing my choice and position while defending assimilation and deconstruction of Gay culture and identity. “I would point out that the entire idea of a separate gay identity is itself extremely ahistorical. Different cultures have been more or less tolerant of sexual relationships and acts between two men at different times, but really, the idea of a person being gay (as opposed to just engaging in homosexual acts) is really quite new, within the last 150 years. And the idea of there being a separate gay culture to go with that identity is newer still, say in the last 50 years, give or take. Given the span of human history, there's no reason to think that assimilation wouldn't be a reversion to the mean, quite the opposite.” I would point out that this is not true. The belief that Gayness is ahistorical, which you cite, is part of a fading postmodern paradigm that has only been around for a brief time. You may want to consider Rictor Norton’s latest on this: http://rictornorton.co.uk/fuckfouc.pdf “As for the culture changing back, I know history isn't linear and things can move backwards. After all, the progress we've made in the last 20 years has completely taken me, at least, by surprise. So feel free to take this with a grain of salt, but I look around the culture and see where people's attitudes have changed, especially among younger people. I look at the drivers of the change, which includes things like more and more people coming out of the closet and raising awareness, and I just don't see a big clampdown coming.” No “clampdown” just religious freedom to discriminate, which could very easily lead back to square one. “What would it take to take marriage away from us again? It's basically been established by the Supreme Court that a Constitutional amendment would be needed, something conservatives simply don't have the numbers to do (and which, given the shift in public opinion, they'd be unlikely to try). I suppose they could try to pack the Supreme Court and get Obergefell reversed, but that's a process that would take years if not decades, and that assumes a long string of Republican Presidents, a Republican Senate and a Supreme Court that is inclined to revist the question. I can't see right now how the normal political process could bring about a reversal, at least not in my lifetime. Which tells me that, barring some catastrophe, like a coup or a revolution or the physical disintegration of the country, things seem unlikely to change back in any meaningful way.” Should Obergefell be the sole means of measuring progress? Reminds me of the abundant declarations that we had entered a “post-racial society” when Obama was elected. The media heralded the end of racism and Amerika celebrated. Then Ferguson happened. Then Baltimore, so on and so forth.

Well said brother!

Why do you think it’s important for them to downplay the importance? Based on the numerous interactions I have had with Gay male proponents of assimilation, seems to be based on a need to appease the majority proving that “we’re just like you.” In order to do that, they think it is necessary to distance themselves from those nasty queers that flaunt, make noise, and draw attention. They can’t associate with men who visit action bars, bathhouses, or celebrate male sexuality because that be. This sounds a bit familiar when you think about it. Examples: “I’m not Gay. I just mess around.” “Going to one of those places is like admitting you’re one of them.” “I’m not Gay because I don’t suck cock or get fucked.” "We're not like those people." You seem to be operating from the assumption that progress is linear and that history inevitable moves in that direction. Be nice if that were true but evidence indicates otherwise. Gay people have repeatedly gained and lost ground throughout history. An arguably tolerant society of today is no guarantee of one tomorrow. I think that alone is justification for maintaining a distinct cultural identity. What about it? How does my desire for a unique cultural identity interfere with you having any of that? How so? By moving to the suburbs, adopting kids, denouncing Gayness, and pretending we don’t exist? No thanks. Not for me. I’ll stay on hill. Nothing personal though. Feel free to come visit if you need an oasis to escape to a place to bond with other Gay men.

Do Gay genes not reproduce? That could be questioned scientifically but would require veering off topic. What about the Vatican? It’s an independent nation in which no one is born. Because of Gay liberation actually. The work of Harry Hay, Carl Wittman, Don Jackson, GLF collectives, etc.

I dreamed in a dream of a city where all the men were like brothers, O I saw them tenderly love each other—I often saw them, in numbers, walking hand in hand; I dreamed that was the city of robust friends—Nothing was greater there than the quality of manly love—it led the rest, It was seen every hour in the actions of the men of that city, and in all their looks and words. -Walt Whitman

Count me in! Several of us did on his behalf. He reported the death threats to the FBI.

Assimilation (another word for cultural suicide) has been attempted as a strategy before. At best, it amounted to a noble failure. Also, perhaps it is worth evaluating how well other cultural minorities, Native Americans for example, benefitted from assimilation. I know assimilation has been deemed the politically correct option, but that does not necessarily mean it is the best one over the long-run. Remember, silence=death. Deconstruction of Gay identity and culture = silence. As for the rabid religious right, I think they have been given plenty of slack. Hundreds of years worth in fact. Sorry, I am unsympathetic to their alleged plight. Plus I do not see them returning the favor.

That is your opinion. Mine is that people have a right to govern themselves as opposed to being ruled by another group, also known as imperialism. Sorry that you think otherwise.

The best thing about fucking missionary is being able to huff a man's ripe pit scent before flooding his cumhole.

Would love to hear some examples of you "having to piss and being made to hold it." I can easily imagine such a scenario. You squirming around, unable to sit still, clenching your legs, hoping you dom will show some mercy and allow the relief you so desperately crave.

"I guess I feel conflicted because I tell myself sex shouldn't be worth compromising my health for, so how did I still end up doing it?" To answer your question, it's because you are dealing with a base drive like hunger and thirst. Maybe not as extreme as those two, but a base drive nonetheless, which is hard to resist. It doesn't make you a bad person, only human. I agree with Tiger Milner. You may want to look into PREP because once you have crossed the threshold, it becomes easier to do it again, and again, and again. The "nothing happened last time" mentality sets in, even if only on a subconscious level.

Ever hear of St. Priapus Church?

Excerpt from "Brother Don Has A Dream," by Don Jackson, 1970: "I have a reoccurring day dream. I imagine a place where Gay people can be free. A place where there is no job discrimination, police harassment or prejudice. A place where love rules instead of hate. A beautiful valley in the mountains, remote enough from the cities so that we will not be hassled, yet close enough so that transportation is rapid. A place where a Gay government can build the base for a flourishing Gay counter-culture and city. If only two hundred pioneering Gays can be found, my dream can come true. It would mean Gay territory. It would mean a Gay government, a Gay civil service… It could mean the establishment of the world’s first Gay university… It could mean the establishment of the world’s first museum of Gay arts, sciences and history… A free county health service and hospital could provide for our sick. […] The colony could become the Gay symbol of liberty, a world center for the Gay counter-culture, and a shining symbol of hope to all Gay people in the world."

You can bet your sweet bare ass that he will get over it in a few weeks if even that long. Now that his cock knows the difference it will nag him relentlessly until it gets what it wants.

The horrific hate expressed over this image makes me wonder if Gay communities will ever really be safe from the tyranny of the majority. Perhaps self governance is the best option. http://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/art/photography/2015/07/02/out-photographer-slammed-gay-iwo-jima-re-creation

How did his warm load feel coating your swollen unrelieved prostate?

Pulling out can make a top feel empty as well. Empty in a different way. The experience of another man being willing to violate traditional codes of manhood by submitting himself to you can be very affirming to one’s masculinity. In addition, being granted entry into the forbidden zone of a man’s ass without protection is complimenting to a top’s psyche. However, accepting another man’s hot load inside you, allowing him flood your insides with his DNA, is one of the highest forms of acceptance a man can give to another man. Needless to say, when a man is made to pull out, he can be left feeling a bit empty and rejected.

I imagine it can be empowering for some bottoms. Wearing down a powerful man's self-control. Giving him deep access so he can take those long wonderful strokes. Gripping his cock, squeezing it with his tight little asshole. Weakening his resolve. Making him vulnerable to temptation. Getting him to a point where he just can't help himself.

"Ok. Officially boned right now." Same here. Its contagious.

Well stated as well as arousing. Thanks! I think there are probably plenty of times who guys actually mean "just the tip" or intend go bare "just for a second" knowing how damn good it feels to feel a smooth, warm, welcoming hole wrapped around our cocks. However, it feels so good once you're in, you just don't want to get out. Like a warm bath, only much better. "Just a second" leads to another second, then another, and another...

Does your master know you can still cum boy?

Thanks for actually addressing the question. Of course a load in an ass is hot in its own right. Beyond that, I find the internal struggle some guys go through, usually on their journey to becoming bareback pigs themselves, kind of hot. I suppose it is the mind fuck of it. The need to play safe that gets beaten into men by society goes against the natural urge to slid bare into a warm wet hole bare and release our sperm the way nature intended. I understand why some men want to be "good" and try to play safe, but nature is hard to resist. Goddamn is it hard to resist! A condom might be only an arm reach away, but of course a top wants to get his dick wet, not rubbered, and may agree not to cum in a bottom as a next best option. Of course the bottom would much rather feel smooth cock skin sliding in and out of his ass than a jagged rubber sheath. Odds are he's taken a few bare cocks here and there, maybe even a few loads, but is still trying to be "responsible" about taking risks. Horniness makes men more vulnerable to illogical thoughts and irrational ideas, especially when it comes to taking risks. Thus a guy with a hungry, twitching, sweating hole may convince himself that it would be okay to take a bare cock in his ass if the top agreed not to cum inside. The struggle doesn't end there though. The will power a top needs to be able to pull out weakens with each stroke. His balls are full of millions of sperm, all barking to be let out. Eons of evolution are whispering to him to let go inside the bottom, and that hole feels oh so sweet. If anything he wants to bury his cock deep, not pull.

Only if they have earned the privilege.