Barebacking/HIV/Sexual Ethics

[PhoenixGeoff]

I know a lot of the thrill of barebacking comes from both the risk, particularly of HIV, and the transgression of cultural taboos (against promiscuity, condom use, etc.) I see all kinds of posts here celebrating activities that many would consider dangerous, scary, predatory, or just plain wrong. Sometimes, even legal boundaries are flirted with (stealthing when you're HIV+ can potentially get you thrown in prison).

Everybody here pretty obviously doesn't subscribe to the mainstream codes of conduct (which arguably still has problems with gay sex generally). But that doesn't mean that we don't come up with our own, personal standards of what's right and what's wrong to do.

I'm curious to hear how your conscience guides your actions with respect to sexual activity, barebacking and HIV and other STDs. What must you do and what won't you do as a matter of personal morals?

[bbzh]

Let me preface my answer by saying that I live in a European country where I am not legally required to disclose my status, although my doctor has told me that it is the moral thing to do. I should also state that I am shooting blanks (undetectable).

If I think I am going to get close to the guy or want to date him, I really try to avoid raw sex with him because it has been my experience that a lot of guys just assume you're neg and freak out when they find out. I think you should get to know the person before you disclose that. Another option is to date guys who have the same status.

When it comes to anonymous situations such as sex parties, saunas, parks etc, it's strictly don't ask don't tell. Even with quick internet hook ups. The irony here is that I really would like to avoid guys with high viral loads but how can you do that in reality when so many people don't even know their status?

The one situation where I do feel remorse is from 2 years ago when I knew I was poz and had a viral load. This hot dude who had been breeding me for a while wanted to fuck. I was horny but didn't know how I could explain that I suddenly wanted to use condoms. He bred me as usual. I lost contact. I do hope he got tested and didn't get sick.

By the way, I agree that a lot of stuff on this site is made up. And the whole bug chasing thing I totally don't get. Being poz is no picnic. I consider myself lucky because I was always getting tested and caught it early. I've got good insurance. Getting knocked up of course made me even more sexual but the reality is that you have this for life. You really have to take care of yourself. Doctors visits, meds, remembering to take the meds. Also the discrimination you face. You need to be strong. I knew what I was doing would make me poz but the day I got the news, I was truly devastated.

[bbzh]

Just wanted to add that before I found out I was poz, I had three guys who were regularly breeding me. One never talked to me again. The other two just say hi online from time to time. Telling them was the right thing to do but I would be lying to you if I said that sometimes I wish I hadn't. The one that dropped me cold turkey was the hottest of the three and happened to be in a serious (supposedly monogamous) relationship.

[btmcumwhore]

I figure if it is important to the other person they ask. I assume everyone is poz unless they ask specifically.

[cam1972]

I disclose my status. Big surprise, eh? I have to be able to live with myself and I couldn't if I lied about my status. I must tell anyone that is interested in me and I won't lie about it.

[Male22192]

This is a sore subject for me. I believe that if you're poz, you have a responsibility to disclose your status every time you are about to bareback. HIV is a lifelong commitment and anyone that a poz person is about to fuck, has a right to know what they are getting into. Yes, it does suck and maybe you want to say it is unfair or whatever, but it is the right thing to do.

[hungry_hole]

I know a lot of the thrill of barebacking comes from both the risk, particularly of HIV, and the transgression of cultural taboos (against promiscuity, condom use, etc.)...

But here we are forgeting the aspect of barebacking that "it feels good"...it feels better for the top and for the bottom. And then there's the fetish for cum, just for cum, not for poz cump. Again, for most tops it's nice to cream a hole and for bottoms, to get our hole creamed. I think that the risk just adds another dimension. Before AIDS all sex between men was bareback.

This is a sore subject for me. I believe that if you're poz, you have a responsibility to disclose your status every time you are about to bareback...

For me it depends on the circumstances. In places of sexual fantasy and for having sex I don't expect the truth about anything. Good examples of these places are saunas/bathhouses, sex clubs, boookstores, darkrooms, etc.

[rawTOP]

My standard is "don't lie". I don't feel poz guys need to disclose unless asked and even if asked they can evade the question - especially if they're undetectable (and hence there's no significant risk to the other person). Being poz is a personal matter, but whatever you do, don't say you're neg when you're poz.

The corollary to that is that neg guys have to be responsible for their own health. They shouldn't be taking loads if they want to stay neg (period). And they shouldn't assume someone is neg. They need to ask pointed questions and assume evasive answers = 'poz'. It's not enough to ask status. They need to be asking when the last test was and how many sexual partners there were since then and the nature of those sexual partners - did the person fucking them take loads from other guys, etc.? Ultimately, staying neg is a the job of the neg guy - he can't reasonably expect every person he has sex with to know he's neg and look out for his best interests.

[bbzh]

I think there are four categories of guys.

1. Neg, not barebacking

2. Those who claim to be neg but are giving/taking loads (probably poz but scared/refuse to get tested)

3. Those who are poz undetectable

4. Those who are poz with high viral load

Note that is virtually impossible to find a guy who will have raw sex with you and can actually prove he's neg. I say don't even bother to ask the guy which bucket he is in because he probably a) can't honestly tell you or won't be truthful about it if he thinks you are gonna reject him. The morality card gets played a lot if you fall into category 3 or 4 but I think more barebackers than we care to admit fall into category 2. Raise your hand if you have ever told a guy about a negative test result being relatively recent when you know your ass hasn't been near a clinic. ;-)

[Bangme]

Since 1985, when I found out I was poz, I have made it a point to tell all sexual partners my HIV status. I personally feel it is the moral thing to do. My doctor tests me every quarter for std's as part of my check up. Even though I have not had sex with anyone in 16 months. (btw, I am reconnecting with a fb this evening so my dry spell is finally over. He was the last person I had sex with.) I enjoy reading the stories on here of stealthing, "marking" or making someone a part of them. I take them as fantasy and use it for jack off material. However, I could not live with myself knowing I intentionally infected someone without telling them.

[Guest MightyMouth]

I disclose whether asked or not. I do think that in bathhouses, bookstores and sex clubs or any where there is anonymous sex that if you don't ask and they don't tell you can't bitch if you become poz. Both parties share the responsibility. I have strong feelings about stealthing - just not cool.

[PhoenixGeoff]

Some interesting responses. So let me ask this, framing the discussion in terms of positive duties that we owe to each other:

If I'm HIV-, do I have the positive duty to explicitly ask a potential partner if he's positive or not? Or to disclose my own status, as far as I am aware of it? Do I have a positive duty to not bury my head in the sand, but to be tested regularly, so my information is up-to-date?

If I'm HIV+, do I have the positive duty to volunteer my status without being prompted? And do I have the duty to take proper care of my health, including taking steps to reduce my viral load to undetectable levels before barebacking? And should serosorting be considered a right (that someone who's HIV+ may or may not choose to exercise depending on personal morals) or an obligation (regardless of the expressed desires of the HIV- party)?

And for anyone considering engaging in gay sex, do I have the positive duty to inform myself about the risks before getting involved?

And in the context of the discussion, should we consider the impact to the broader community (for instance, insurance, whether private or public, does end up covering the costs of HIV treatment in almost all cases)? Or just limit consideration to the personal impact on those directly involved?

[Male22192]

Some interesting responses. So let me ask this, framing the discussion in terms of positive duties that we owe to each other:

If I'm HIV-, do I have the positive duty to explicitly ask a potential partner if he's positive or not? Or to disclose my own status, as far as I am aware of it? Do I have a positive duty to not bury my head in the sand, but to be tested regularly, so my information is up-to-date?

If I'm HIV+, do I have the positive duty to volunteer my status without being prompted? And do I have the duty to take proper care of my health, including taking steps to reduce my viral load to undetectable levels before barebacking? And should serosorting be considered a right (that someone who's HIV+ may or may not choose to exercise depending on personal morals) or an obligation (regardless of the expressed desires of the HIV- party)?

And for anyone considering engaging in gay sex, do I have the positive duty to inform myself about the risks before getting involved?

And in the context of the discussion, should we consider the impact to the broader community (for instance, insurance, whether private or public, does end up covering the costs of HIV treatment in almost all cases)? Or just limit consideration to the personal impact on those directly involved?

Tackling each paragraph one paragraph at a time ----

Neg, poz, whatever, I think status should be discussed every time. I think ALL gay men should know their HIV status and yes that includes regular HIV testing.

I think all HIV+ partners should inform any potential sex partners of their status, even if they are NOT prompted. An omission is a lie. Whatever treatment options, or lack thereof, is the right of an HIV+ person. Personally speaking I have no qualms about a poz person having sex with a neg person (or vice versa), even bareback, but I think it should be a consensual choice for both parties cause obviously there is risk for both parties and they should know what they are getting into.

That's a tough question. Even at 30 y/o I feel like I am still learning as I go along. There is so much info and misinformation out there, it is hard to truly know everything involved in all aspects of gay sexuality.

I don''t think anyone owes society anything. I think that a person, poz or not, only owes it to himself and those that are directly impacted by that person's actions.

[bbottom26]

The corollary to that is that neg guys have to be responsible for their own health. They shouldn't be taking loads if they want to stay neg (period). And they shouldn't assume someone is neg. They need to ask pointed questions and assume evasive answers = 'poz'. It's not enough to ask status. They need to be asking when the last test was and how many sexual partners there were since then and the nature of those sexual partners - did the person fucking them take loads from other guys, etc.? Ultimately, staying neg is a the job of the neg guy - he can't reasonably expect every person he has sex with to know he's neg and look out for his best interests.

Exactly. The hypothetical poz guy should never lie, but a guy hoping to have bareback sex and remain neg is unrealistic. Most guys don't want to go to all the trouble of asking all of these questions mentioned in the quote and for that reason it's a risk that they have to accept that they are taking.

Personally, I enjoy bareback sex not for the "thrill" of the risk but more for the sensation and the feeling of completion and naturalness that giving / taking a load in a bare ass gives. While I'm not fantasizing about getting pozzed when having bb sex, I can still understand how many men could find this idea thrilling.

If I ask you if you are neg and you flat out say "yes, I am neg i got tested on (so and so date), etc" then while I will still have doubts, I will hope that you are being truthful. If you turned out to be poz and you just flat out lied then that's pretty damn lame of you.

If I ask if you are neg and you say "the last time I got tested I was" or something vague like that, then I know that you likely either don't know your status or you think that you may be poz.

Yes it is up to the poz guys to be truthful to the extent that they aren't lying, but it is also up to the neg guys to know that ultimately no matter what the other guy says his status is, it's there will always be a risk and any result of that sexual engagement is entirely their own responsibility if they decided to go ahead and engage in unsafe sex.

It's a somewhat grey area so it's hard to define specific "rules" but I think these generalized rules of truth telling and taking responsibility for one's own decisions is a good start.

[Male22192]

Exactly. The hypothetical poz guy should never lie, but a guy hoping to have bareback sex and remain neg is unrealistic. Most guys don't want to go to all the trouble of asking all of these questions mentioned in the quote and for that reason it's a risk that they have to accept that they are taking.

Are you neg or poz & when was your last test? That's a lot of questions, huh?!? People spend a lot more time and effort trying to hook up. So a sentence and response that should take less then a minute is a lot of work?!?