Pozzing by undetectable guys?

[rsidebb]

Thinking about it now, I could have been. I started playing with undetectable men (or so to speak) in Palm Springs about a year ago and got sick twice roughly last Feb. It most certainly helped me get over my fears. To think it's almost been an entire year for me, it's sad I don't celebrate.

[CumluverKD]

Hard1, I'd totally take your load any day!! Don't care if I convert, I just want loads of cum inside me!!!

Fuck man, Carletonboi I couldn't have said it any better!

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

Wondering if anyone has gotten pozzed from an undetectable guy.

A follow up to my story on my blog about the hot neg guy who I fucked eight times last weekend...

http://https://www.breedingzone.com/blog.php?u=13966

...it's a week later and he's got a 102 temperature, sore throat, fatigue..

I fucked him eight times (we kept count) and came up his ass each time. Fucked him pretty hard, but not to draw any blood. It is flu season of course, and so I suggested that it may be a coincidence... He may just be sick, but I admit I'm wondering myself.

He went for an HIV test last week and was still neg, though this would not yet pick up a pozzing from me. My last viral load was still undetectable last test

Any thoughts, or any experience getting pozzed by an undetectable guy?

NiceHard1; so roughly five months later, what's been the outcome with your boy?

[HereIsNoWhy]

So, I know in theory taking undetectable loads is safe for a neg guy, more or less. But, what if that undetectable guy has a large-gauge PA, and the bottom has never been fucked by a guy with a PA before? Still unlikely, or could happen? Hypothetically! Hypothetically, of course....

[Evanmx]

What is 'undetectable poz' ?

[Guest JizzDumpWI]

What is 'undetectable poz' ?

Poz person on meds. Meds over time bring Viral Load down to "undetectable". Once that has been the case, more often than not a guy is unable to convert another.

You also have the option at this point in your life Evan of PrEP - Pre Exposure Prophylaxis. This is HIV meds before exposure to prevent HIV infection from taking hold. Current US approved PrEP is Truvada, which is 2/3 of the Atrypla cocktail that is one of the more popular HIV meds.

[bearbandit]

What is 'undetectable poz' ?

Basically what Jizz said: the thing to note is that they keep changing the goalposts as the meds and tests improve. I remember when below 500 was considered undetectable. These days it's forty or fifty. I hit the ultimate target a couple of months ago when they could find no detectable virus in my blood. They don't want a clinic full of wankers so they don't ask for semen sample, which tend to lag behind blood samples. However, I don't consider myself a gifter, but I'd feel comfortable leaving my cum up anyone's ass.

As for chillanarchy's question, I usually wear a 4mm gauge PA: I'm going to know well before you do if there's any damage and it's going to be too damn painful to carry on. Some guys have a problem with calcium absorption (which ultimately leads to osteopenia or even osteoporosis) and will find that they piss out any excess calcium in their system, which leads to limescale forming on the ring itself. (It can also happen if you live in an area with particularly hard water.) The answer is to have two rings, and swap them over as necessary: a night in white vinegar, followed by a fucking good rinse the next day will take care of any limescale.

My only lasting experience is of captive ball rings: these need to be slightly looser than usual so you can open them with fingers instead of pliers (there you are: I'm squeamish about something!). The PA piercing is one that never actually closes. I haven't worn mine since the beginning of the year, but will need to have it stretched professionally to get my usual ring back in: I'll probably got for a horseshoe rather than a captive ball ring. just seems that bit safer...

[wood]

So, I know in theory taking undetectable loads is safe for a neg guy, more or less....

Well the answer is actually a lot more complicated than that. Better language would be, "Having an HIV poz person ejaculate inside the rectum of an HIV neg person carries a substantially lower risk of having the negative person seroconvert than with a person who is not on treatment." Im not one for using ultra wordy language, but saying its safe is also somewhat incorrect. The main reason is that the only study that was done on this was based on heterosexual couples and vaginal intercourse. It is well known that anal sex is substantially more risky than vaginal sex. Using the word "safe" is very ambiguous. What is safe to one person can be very different to another.

I think one of my biggest problems with neg guys trying to serosort is that neg/poz/undetec/dont know, all can be very ambiguous and mean little to nothing at the time of the sexual act. For example a neg guy who got tested three months ago, and took 50 loads since then very well could be poz. Conversely, an undetectable guy who just had a bad flu bout could have sharply increased viral loads that mean he isn't undetectable, at least at the time of the sexual act. Its also the main reason I am a huge supporter of neg guys going on PrEP. If you want to stay neg, its extremely effective, even with unprotected intercourse.

[wood]

Some great info and perspective on this topic.

http://www.frontiersla.com/mylifeonprep/story.aspx?ID=1813678

This isn’t just my “opinion”: a recent study estimated that the majority of new HIV-infections in the US are the result of having sex with someone who didn’t yet know that they were poz. The CDC estimates 20% of HIV-positive people in the US don’t know they’re infected – yet it’s this 20% that researchers estimate account for between 54% and 71% of new infections.

The hard-to-swallow truth is that, for guys with a lot of partners (like me), fucking poz guys with undetectable viral loads is actually safer than fucking raw with guys who think they’re negative.

[CaliSmoker]

Very astute point, hollywoodslut. You just gave my brain the biggest hardon right now.

[wood]

Very astute point, hollywoodslut. You just gave my brain the biggest hardon right now.

Haha thanks. To a lot of my "negative" friends. (I use that because I dont know their status personally) They have said before that they would never fuck with a positive guy. Well one ended up poz last year, and infected his BF too. Myself OTOH will fuck with poz undetectable guys, and haven't always used protection. In fairness before I went on PrEP I wouldn't bottom raw for them and let them cum instead, but I would now. When topping I almost never used a condom. Personally I have found that if a guy is poz, and willing to open up to you, he is going to be much more honest about ALL of his health related information and tests.

If you are trying to stay negative, it really pays to look at things from an epidemiological perspective. With exposure to most pathogens, either viral or bacterial, it takes more than a couple copies to cause an infection. Many will still die trying to infect you. If its a very small number of pathogens, IE viral copies in the case of HIV, there is a good chance they will die or your body can fight them off. Now people who are newly infected and have extremely high viral loads are the opposite. Think of the common cold. Its well know that people are most infectious when they don't know they have a cold, or they first start to feel it. HIV is the same way, the only difference is in the long term people with HIV need medication to keep the virus suppressed, and thus there infect-ability low.

Heres the answer to a question I posed about transmission risk with an undetectable guy and a guy on PrEP on thebody.org

http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/SafeSex/Q232644.html

[OtterPupArcherNYC]

I have had a couple guys fuck and cum in me who were clear that they were poz and undetectable (to me sounds safer than unsure negs guys). They both fucked me several times, and now a few months later I'm still neg. Two cases though, are probably not enough to prove anything though but maybe.

[wood]

I have had a couple guys fuck and cum in me who were clear that they were poz and undetectable (to me sounds safer than unsure negs guys). They both fucked me several times, and now a few months later I'm still neg. Two cases though, are probably not enough to prove anything though but maybe.

 

Well sure two is not a good sample size, but undetectable guys are much lower risk that untested "neg" guys.  

 

 http://www.hivplusmag.com/sex-dating/2014/09/15/undetectable-new-safe-sex

 

That being said, If you are a bottom and want to stay neg, PrEP is still your best option, Mainly because there will always be a "neg" guy who insists he is clean, wants to fuck, and you let him.  

[bearbandit]

The current rule of thumb is that it take someone with a viral load of >1,000 to establish a "successful" infection, though someone here has pointed out that they know someone who was infected by someone with a viral load in the 380's.

The PARTNER study, following the transmission risks of magnetic couples, both straight and gay, uses an "undetectable" figure of 200. They have yet to see a single seroconversion amongst trial participants.

If the undetectable guy is using an integrase inhibitor, such as raltegravir, dolutegravir or the one in stribild, chances of transmission are even lower as the integrase inhibitors get further into where the virus hangs out.

I echo wood's words that guys who are neg would do well to get on PrEP: I've met too many guys who claim to be neg on the basis of a test a year or more ago. Plenty of time to pick up HIV and develop a six or seven figure viral load...

[wood]

The current rule of thumb is that it take someone with a viral load of >1,000 to establish a "successful" infection, though someone here has pointed out that they know someone who was infected by someone with a viral load in the 380's.

I echo wood's words that guys who are neg would do well to get on PrEP: I've met too many guys who claim to be neg on the basis of a test a year or more ago. Plenty of time to pick up HIV and develop a six or seven figure viral load...

Ahh interesting info, I didnt know they had that kind of data now.  

 

On the second part, it constantly amazes me how little people talk about status.   Not that asking is always going to give you a correct answer, but it does start a dialogue.  On that note I flipped with a 19 year old a week ago, we both came inside each other, and kept in contact a bit since then.  It was only today that he asked me, "oh btw you are neg right?" I reassured him, but also told him he should consider PrEP.  Hoping and luck are terrible ways to prevent HIV.