Well, "BB...can be done healthy" is a bit naïve, don't you think?

[bbjoca]

Hi guys, came across this profile, a 26-y.o. guy that had this text:

"I enjoy bareback sex, but only if you've been tested first. I don't do BB if you don't know any recent results from a test. I am HIV- since NOV/2012 and intend to remain that way. BB is a choice of lifestyle that can be done healthy. Currently I'm not lookin' for sex;"

Well, I don't know where to begin....

So he enjoys BB sex, but "only if you've been tested first"? And what about him? And you have to know your "recent" results? But he's got no recent results, unless, of course 6 months is "recent".

And, the punch-line here is, after all the loops he'll make you jump through, he's "not lookin' for sex".

I bet you he isn't.

Sorry about the rant, guys, but sometimes there are really brainless guys here.

[Bttm2go]

I agree. Amazing the fantasy land some guys live in. And if he is not looking for sex, why is he on a sex site?

[rawTOP]

There is a group I call "the worried well" (a phrase that had rather different implications during the AIDS crisis). The Maverick Men guys are part of the worried well. They use layer after layer of risk reduction - which I suppose isn't a crime in and of itself, but they're so manic about it I think it's psychologically unhealthy. And then on top of everything else they're rather judgmental of anyone who doesn't think the same way they do with IMHO is the really irritating part.

[bbjoca]

Yeah, that judgemental part irks me too!!!

[TigerMilner]

I agree with RT. Neg guys who bareback are just not poz yet. There is no reason to be judgmental about it. Gratitude would be more appropriate. Anyone who thinks they have a strategy for staying negative and think they are better, or smarter, than anyone else is a fool.

[rawTOP]

I agree with RT. Neg guys who bareback are just not poz yet.

Actually that's not what I'm saying at all. Take the Maverick Men guys... They're on PrEP, they get tested regularly (and by regularly I mean ALL the time). Everyone they fuck bareback is tested regularly and they encourage the guys they fuck bareback to go on PrEP (they're actually thinking of mandating that everyone who fucks with them is on PrEP). If the person won't get tested or is poz they just refuse to fuck with them.

Now they are in a unique position where because of their site they've got more than enough guys who are willing to put up with all that. And things like HIV tests for everyone who walks through the door is just "a production cost" - though I suspect they probably send them off for a complete battery of STD tests - not just the 20 minute home test.

In real life I think there are a lot of people who minimize their risk by just not having much sex. Something like 1/4 or 1/3rd of the guys in the big study on PrEP didn't have sex for like 3 months. And that's probably after they got screened to make sure they're having sex. So guys have crappy, limited sex lives and then they talk the issue of HIV status to death before actually fucking with someone and in the process they drastically reduce their risk. My bf is sorta in that group. He has very few sexual partners and he really gets to know the guys he fucks.

I think guys like that probably will stay neg in most cases - whether it's lots of sex with a crazy number of layers of protection, or really limiting sexual partners to a few trusted guys. Neither of those is zero risk, but it's close enough that guys like that tend to stay neg.

[TigerMilner]

RT, I did not mean to paraphrase you with my statement "Neg guys who bareback are just not poz yet". My statement that I agree with you was one comment, the second statement was a separate comment of my own. I just jotted it down so quickly that it read that way. But I have to disagree with your final statement that "Guys like that tend to stay neg." I was one of those guys. I barebacked for over 20 years without getting pozzed. I took similar precautions and tried to limit my activities to a group of "trusted guys". I even began to think I might be one of those guys with an immunity. But eventually, it got me. And I believe it will eventually get anyone who indulges in unsafe sex. Yes, you can do what you can to minimize the risk, but it is still there. It's just a numbers game. I'm not judging or being pessimistic, just realistic. And I sure don't want to discourage barebacking. It is natural, it is hot. It is how sex is meant to be.

[mike43]

i think ive heard of prep kinda hiv vaccene whats the point as a bottom i need skin on skin and the load is my reward i know ill convert sooner or later and i except that

[rawTOP]

And I believe it will eventually get anyone who indulges in unsafe sex. Yes, you can do what you can to minimize the risk, but it is still there. It's just a numbers game. I'm not judging or being pessimistic, just realistic. And I sure don't want to discourage barebacking. It is natural, it is hot. It is how sex is meant to be.

Yes, it is a numbers game, but no, a few cases (like yours) do not disprove the general trend. I think the study showed that half of all gay guys bareback at least some of the time, but the percentage of gay men who are poz is far lower than that - around 25% in urban areas (that attract guys who are already poz by offering good healthcare, etc.)

[rawTOP]

i think ive heard of prep kinda hiv vaccene whats the point as a bottom i need skin on skin and the load is my reward i know ill convert sooner or later and i except that

Well, the data suggest (though they haven't proven it yet), that if taken daily PrEP can be 98% effective. So if it would have taken you 6 months to convert, now it will take you 50 times longer than that - 25 years. There may be a more permanent solution to HIV 25 years from now.

[whoai]

The practice of "serosorting" is not really anything new - it's just that modern testing methods have made it easier. That said, anyone who barebacks *should* know that they are taking a risk, no matter the attempts to reduce it. Like Rawtop said, it's a numbers game. I don't condemn anyone who goes to extreme measures to limit their exposure to a still potentially very dangerous disease. I do it, to some extent, myself. But, I also understand that what I do is risk mitigation, not risk elimination.

I think the vast majority of people on here, though, would rather not have sex than have sex with a condom. Not having sex isn't really an option for most humans, so that leaves risk mitigation. It's up to everyone to decide what their level of comfort is, from all-on bug chaser to "serosorting" to "safer" sex to life-long celibacy and all the stages in-between. I think people tend to forget that life is all about risk. Participating in the road kills a lot more people than HIV. I wear a seat belt, but I am not willing to have a helmet and head-restraints in my car like a NASCAR driver. Similarly, I top only (not because of risk, but because I just am a top), I don't fuck guys with 15 random loads in them already, etc. Still, I could get killed by a drunk driver or contract an STD. It's called life.

[wood]

Hi guys, came across this profile, a 26-y.o. guy that had this text:

"I enjoy bareback sex, but only if you've been tested first. I don't do BB if you don't know any recent results from a test. I am HIV- since NOV/2012 and intend to remain that way. BB is a choice of lifestyle that can be done healthy. Currently I'm not lookin' for sex;"

Well, I don't know where to begin....

So he enjoys BB sex, but "only if you've been tested first"? And what about him? And you have to know your "recent" results? But he's got no recent results, unless, of course 6 months is "recent".

Sorry about the rant, guys, but sometimes there are really brainless guys here.

LOL he seems really confused.

And yes it is possible to have healthy safe bareback sex, but that involves complete monogomy, ;-)

[Postmanpat]

And yes it is possible to have healthy safe bareback sex, but that involves complete monogomy, ;-)

Agree with this statement!

[whoai]

It's possible to mitigate risk. Even a condom is only 85% effective. So, it's all about the level at which you feel "safe".