Tell Me Your Thoughts On Privacy vs. GeoLocation

[curiouspuppy429]

Why would cumdumps have a right to privacy from tops looking for a place to dump?

[Alaric]

I'd like the feature to be available with a default 200 ft minimum but which can be optional set to actual distance.

[rawTOP]

Gaydar.co.uk, for example, calculates distance based on your postcode (your street basically), but it never publicly posts that street or postcode, and as you have to input it yourself, you can choose not to input it, or put in a fake one (for my profile, I used a postcode for the city centre rather than the area I actually lived).

And the distances it calculates are never more precise than a mile. So it's good for working out who's close but not too specific to risk privacy/stalking.

After all, why do you need to know if someone is only 20ft from you? A mile is close enough for any hookup purposes (2 mins drive / 15 min walk).

A mile is 20 New York blocks, 12 blocks in most other US cities. Assuming light traffic (don't have to wait at every corner) it takes 20 minutes to walk a mile in an urban area. That's a pretty long walk.

Personally 1/2 mile (10 blocks) is close enough that I think of it as easily walkable for a hookup. Remember - I'm coming from a NYC mindset where cars aren't an option (even though I happen to have one). So in places like NY a mile is too big for a min distance.

I went down the whole postal code lat/long centroid option. Found a database of nearly a million zip codes around the world. Took me a long time to get them imported into MySQL. BUT the data for Canada is crap (and support for Canada is important), and there just isn't data for many countries. So I've abandoned the zip code idea. And when you think about it that was the solution from 5-10 years ago - we have access to better data these days.

Now think about an event like MAL, IML, Dore Alley, etc. In situations like that you're probably fine with pretty accurate distances. @PORTaURINAL asked me to develop a proximity alert feature – he wants to know if a top he's interested is within 200 or 500 feet of him. Something like that is actually pretty complex, but my point is, some people are OK with that.

Or imagine you're in a bathhouse or a bar – you want to know what other guys are in that bathhouse/bar. I suppose some stalker could figure out you're in the bar, but it's different than knowing your home address. Agree?

The solution I'm thinking of right now would be "1/2 mile or the distance to the 10th closest member – whichever is less, plus if you're within 250 feet of a gay venue (or check in at that gay venue) the site will show you as being at that gay venue." Will that make people like you (and TigerMiller) happy? Can "10th member" be lowered to 8th or 5th?

One other thing I could do is ask people whether their location is Big City/Mid-Size City/Suburban/Small Town/Rural and have different rules for each. So it could be 1/2 mile for urban, 1 mile for suburban or mid-size city, 3 miles for small town, and 5 miles for rural. Then I'd just look at how the 20 closest known locations were rated and take the most frequent response and use that rule set.

But what I'm hearing out of all of this is that I can't just take a NYC approach to things. It's easy to get lost in a crowd here on a daily basis. Celebrities love NYC 'cause privacy isn't really a big problem – everyone just ignores you. Guess it's not that way elsewhere. But, big cities are where hookup sites get their initial "critical mass". For BBRT that happened in Chicago for some reason. That means urban dwellers are my primary initial concern, but at the same time I can't scare off the rural and small town folks.

For people on the cumdump network, they may have no qualms about posting their full addresses and contact details. But if you're trying to create a "mainstream" hookup site to rival the likes of BBRT, that's not going to work, and will put people completely off. Look at BBRT: the majority have their face pics set to private, or have none at all.

To be clear, CumdumpNetwork.com will be a completely different site based on BBBH.com data. The location shown for them will be whatever they want it to be. So they can choose a major intersection near them, or the city center if they're in a small town. In other words CDN has it's own rules and isn't the core of what I'm trying to understand with this thread.

[rawTOP]

I'd like the feature to be available with a default 200 ft minimum but which can be optional set to actual distance.

I could do that, but it doesn't really work. Everyone in the same result set needs to observe the same distance rule or you can figure things out. For example BBRT has the option to hide your last login. But searches are initially sorted by last login, if the person before and after were both online in the last day, then you know the person who hid their last login was online in the last day as well. Same thing would happen with distance. If the people on either side of you say <50 feet, and yours says <1 mile, then the person will know you're actually <50 feet away even though it says <1 mile.

[Bear4Breeding]

I don't use any of those phone aps since I don't have a phone that supports those sort of things. I share my location on A4A however that isn't very accurate, since it is based on the Provider information and not your actual home location. I've seen guys on that site that I know are close by me and the distance says they are really far and vise versa, I've seen guys in CA and the site says they are only feet from me. So that is waked for sure.

If any of you are on bearwww, that site shows a map of your location and in all honesty it is dead on, but it gives you the option of Moving the Pin to a different spot so it doesn't actually show your actual home address, it is a bit creepy I must admit.

So in response to rawTOPS question. I don't mind the geo location option, but within reasonable distance and locations etc. I also don't mind just actually City names I can figure out how far they are based on the city they list in the profile providing its filled in. Also I think regardless of how you set up Geo Location, I think you should also include an Opt In out Option for it. So if you choose you can turn it off when you don't want to broadcast your location and turn it on when you do. That way those that want to use it when traveling can turn it on and turn it off when they are at home in their "Sanctuary" as someone called it previously. This would only be a major issue to those in the closet, need to be careful do to employment or other such situations or even if they get a lot of action on these sort of sites. The "hot" guys would probably have more risk of stalking then a big ole phat furry bear like me. Can't wait to see what the site looks like when it is finished. That is my 0.02.

[rawTOP]

I don't use any of those phone aps since I don't have a phone that supports those sort of things. I share my location on A4A however that isn't very accurate, since it is based on the Provider information and not your actual home location. I've seen guys on that site that I know are close by me and the distance says they are really far and vise versa, I've seen guys in CA and the site says they are only feet from me. So that is waked for sure.

If any of you are on bearwww, that site shows a map of your location and in all honesty it is dead on, but it gives you the option of Moving the Pin to a different spot so it doesn't actually show your actual home address, it is a bit creepy I must admit.

Actually, Geolocation for desktops is surprisingly good (80% of the guys who tried it out said it was at least "reasonably close" and 55% said it was dead on). So you don't need a smart phone to use what I'm building. Given that 20% do have issues with location accuracy you'll have the ability to specify where you're located. That means you can do what bearwww does. But unlike bearwww I'll never map you (except for Cumdump Network which is opt-in).

I also don't mind just actually City names I can figure out how far they are based on the city they list in the profile providing its filled in.

In addition to lat/long I'll be asking people what neighborhood they're in. So you'll have both, but browsing by neighborhood will not be the primary way to browse.

Also I think regardless of how you set up Geo Location, I think you should also include an Opt In out Option for it. So if you choose you can turn it off when you don't want to broadcast your location and turn it on when you do. That way those that want to use it when traveling can turn it on and turn it off when they are at home in their "Sanctuary" as someone called it previously. This would only be a major issue to those in the closet, need to be careful do to employment or other such situations or even if they get a lot of action on these sort of sites. The "hot" guys would probably have more risk of stalking then a big ole phat furry bear like me. Can't wait to see what the site looks like when it is finished. That is my 0.02.

Geolocation is pretty fundamental to how I want to build the site (it's 2014, after all – I don't want to build a site that would have been appropriate in 2004). So turning off geolocation won't be an option. That's why I have to get it right. I think between being able to move your location, and the minimum distance limits I spelled out above, I think it should take care of user's concerns.

[kinkygradstudent]

So, scruff gives an exact number of feet, but it is often off a bit. I sometimes am 5 feet away from myself on Scruff, for example.

A4A caches the last time you logged into the app even when you use the website. It needs a way to update that from your web browser. I stopped using the app after a visit from Boston, for example, and now I'm stuck permanently 3,000 miles away from home in their computer.

One problem I find with BBRT is the mileage isn't very accurate. Like, someone is "3 miles" away and on the opposite end of town, since it just goes by zip code and the zip codes are kind of wonky here. I really would like to know exact distance. Oh, and I'd prefer if distance was walking distance or driving distance instead of as-the-crow flies distance - I walked 40 mins once to get to someone who was one Scruff-mile away.

I think there should be a way to opt out of geolocation but that it should be enabled by default. Most people aren't going to take the time to customize those settings, and the site will be a lot more useful if you can easily tell who's nearby to hook up with...

The Cumdumpnetwork integration sounds great - look forward to seeing that!

Also, it would be neat if you could click through and see someone's breedingzone posts from their hookup site profile and vice versa :-)

[rawTOP]

Oh, and I'd prefer if distance was walking distance or driving distance instead of as-the-crow flies distance - I walked 40 mins once to get to someone who was one Scruff-mile away.

Initially it will just be an estimate of as-the-crow-flies distance. Walking/driving distance is possible with Google Maps integration, but that's not a high priority feature at this point.

Also, it would be neat if you could click through and see someone's breedingzone posts from their hookup site profile and vice versa :-)

I'll be able to pull in BZ posts into BBBH. The software behind BZ is a bit of a nightmare to customize. So pulling BBBH into BZ probably isn't going to happen.

[topblkmale]

I have gotten pretty good at finding out information about a potential hookup including correct age and exact address. I just need a phone number and/or e-mail. Everything is online and public information nowdays.

[cumboi64]

As a cumdump I'm fine with my location and info being available. Any way to make it easier for a man to bust is load in an ass (preferably mine) is fine with me.

[NYCBearpig]

I find most phone apps pretty accurate, but I'm not sure how close I'd want to get, or anyone to get to me. I freely say that I'm in Gramercy, but I'd rather not be pinpointed further. While I don't usually think of Jeffrey Dahmer, it needs to be considered.

[rawTOP]

I find most phone apps pretty accurate, but I'm not sure how close I'd want to get, or anyone to get to me. I freely say that I'm in Gramercy, but I'd rather not be pinpointed further. While I don't usually think of Jeffrey Dahmer, it needs to be considered.

Right… You'll be able to pick the neighborhood that's displayed for you. You could pick 'Grammercy' or the more general 'Murray Hill'. In terms of location, it wouldn't map you, but it would show that you're <1/2 mile (10 blocks) away from the person. There's a lot happening and a lot of people within a 1/2 mile radius in NYC. But if you went to say Boxers (to pick a bar that's sorta close), it would show you at Boxers and people who are close to you could see "<100 feet". But big deal - anyone who's that close is also in a gay bar (most likely). Unless you live over a gay bar it shouln't be an issue.

[TigerMilner]

So you like Grindr, but at the same time you don't quite trust it - you keep deleting your profile. The issue with any of those sites is that people can keep moving around and see the distance get smaller and smaller until they figure out where you are even though there's no map. It's just the nature of the beast - yet it's generally considered acceptable and the apps are wildly popular.

I want people to build up reputations on BBBH - so deleting your profile will defeat that purpose. I'm now wondering if there shouldn't be some sort of upgrade or something that lets users set visibility to "only trusted members and guys I think are hot". The question is how many guys think like you do and will have trust issues with the site?

Hmmmm....

I don't think my trust issue is with Grindr. I am intrigued by it, as i continually go back and make a new profile whenever I have a trip planned. It is a fun app. But like you said, you can figure out a guys location. And when I travel, I find it very hot. It's just protecting my private space that matters to me. My trust issue is not with apps, it's with men. Not to get too deep or overly negative. I love men. But there are some real freaks out there. And it's not the sexual stalkers that worry me, it's the religious nuts that tend to scare me.

Nothing worse than a self-loathing self righteous christian denying his sexuality. The amount of resentment that men like that harbour is frightening. We all know I'm pretty damn bold when it comes to exposing myself sexually, and many have commented that miss my anon sex encounter videos, but I can't take those risks anymore. It's a drawback to "internet fame". I do get some haters, and they can be very intense. You must get them as well?

I like your idea of making it an upgrade. THat is smart. Oh, and to Blktop's point, it is amazing what you can find out by googling a phone number, or an email address. Email addresses are easy to make up, but few guys have separate cell phones for their sex lives. My married bud got off on not telling me his last name. He still thinks I don't know it. Same with a married Dentist I used to fuck with. If their phone number is on a website, or an a professional certification such as a Realtor, everything you want to know pops up. He still has no idea I know who he is and where his offices are and what his wife and kids names are. lol. He's just lucky I'm a damn nice guy.

[NLbear]

I do like my privacy as well, but it would be good to know if a guy is in walking distance, or a short taxi drive, away or if he's 10-50 miles away. Makes a difference for a quick hookup. I don't mind showing my location as long as it doesn't spell out my street and address. Gayromeo does a good job at that by indicating (to my knowledge) that someone is located about 200m away. I don't want guys to know that I am the guy on the sun lounger next to them....

[Handpuppet]

I have no problem with others knowing how close or far I am from them (the closer the better), right down to the foot. So no problem with location!